Pass Labs X150.8 demo/review (vs Rogue ST100)

phipiper10

I recently obtained a Pass Labs X150.8 for in home demo as mentioned in a different thread. I said in the end I would do a review/comparison between my Rogue Stereo 100 and the Pass. I'll attempt to keep this brief and succinct. For context I don’t churn through a lot of gear but had changed things out more often with less expensive gear as I was starting out. I used amps and preamps by B&K, Blue Circle, Musical Fidelity, Frontier, Channel Island and a few others, but the most recent and longest lasting gear has been Rogue. First the 99 Magnum pre and ST90 amp and then the RP7 and the ST100. Great upgrades and incredibly enjoyable. If you have read any reviews you know the latest Rogue Pre/Amp combo are not old school tube amps by their sound signature but still exhibit the best of what tubes can do.

As I was thinking about the differences in sound I realized most of the descriptive words I would have used to describe one amp vs the other were stark - opposites. The descriptors helped to define the differences but mislead in the magnitude, which is relatively small so keep this in mind- these amps aren’t terribly far apart though have some distinct differences – yeah you get it! So at the expense of making this review boring I will leave out analogies and describing each song I listened to through the process. I probably won’t say much surprising here, particularly knowing the move is from tubes to SS, none the less, by comparison the Pass exhibited:

• Stronger, tighter bass, though I’m not saying it is more musical, though it may be
• A more forward, less relaxed sound, brighter by comparison
• More blackness in the space between
• More inner detail – making things so “real”, incredible dynamic attack and decay, leading edges still rounded and clear but certainly more obvious
• More gripping - I think I just learned what people mean when they say that the amp “gripped” and took hold of the speakers (300W@4Ohm)
• Imaging where musicians and instruments floated a little less but was solidified just a bit more
• Stage a bit more forward but width on par with the Rogue

By comparison and being a tube amp the Rogue has a lovely tube sheen that mellows everything out just a bit. Not that I didn’t know this but it only became apparent via this comparison. This is the reason for tubes, IMO. That beautiful tube sound relaxes those leading edges where things might be too dynamic for some but reduces that last bit of inner detail. In some ways the Rogue was more natural sounding (not necessarily more “real” though). The Rogue reveals less of the blackness between strikes and plucks. The bass a bit softer/rounded, no less musical. Let me just say I believe the Rogue combination is very clean and clear. The sound is full not lush, remains reasonably dynamic, but most of all this combo is incredibly musical, cohesive and involving! Only when approaching 90db+ did I ever feel like the Rogue was starting to falter or lack the power to stay clean. No critical listening is happening at that point in the evening anyway and I don’t know if Poison and AC/DC are known for their recording quality! I always listened to the amp in Triode mode rather than Ultralinear so maybe there was some small amount to be gained during “unmemorable” late night sessions. The speakers are 89db efficient.

With the Pass my system is certainly as dynamic and revealing as it has ever been, possibly even too much so but right now it is incredibly fun hearing those inner details. Maybe this is an experiment. I don’t know what will happen next in my rig. I just couldn’t pass up the opportunity to own the Pass (pun intended).


Rich

nooshinjohn

Pass kicks Rogue out of my system for good...

jbreezy5

Nice review Rich. I’m a big fan of Pass amps. I wonder how a Rogue tube preamp + x150.8 would sound.

Maybe Goldilocks?

Not sure what pre you’re currently rockin’.

Clipdat

Nice review.

phipiper10

Clipdat wrote: »

Nice review.

jbreezy5 wrote: »

Nice review Rich. I’m a big fan of Pass amps. I wonder how a Rogue tube preamp + x150.8 would sound.

Maybe Goldilocks?

Not sure what pre you’re currently rockin’.

Thanks guys, current Pre is the Rogue RP-7. In rereading sounds like the guy who wrote this might be a bit reluctant to let go of the ST100! I`m sure he'll get over it!

Mike Reeter

I enjoyed your comparison, thank you! I would imagine that the St.100 would hold its own with another Amp in its same price range. Going toe to toe with that Pass is an unfair fight

But isn't that why we upgrade, to enhance our listening pleasure. Congratulations on a beautiful piece of Pass

jbreezy5

phipiper10 wrote: »

Clipdat wrote: »

Nice review.

jbreezy5 wrote: »

Nice review Rich. I’m a big fan of Pass amps. I wonder how a Rogue tube preamp + x150.8 would sound.

Maybe Goldilocks?

Not sure what pre you’re currently rockin’.

Thanks guys, current Pre is the Rogue RP-7. In rereading sounds like the guy who wrote this might be a bit reluctant to let go of the ST100! I`m sure he'll get over it!

Ah, ok, so you went from all-tube to current config; makes sense.

phipiper10

Mike Reeter wrote: »

St.100 would hold its own with another Amp in its same price range. Going toe to toe with that Pass is an unfair fight

Thanks Mike, It’s a very good point and wasn’t lost on me through the process. I had a lot of thoughts for the review including raising this point and many others but I would have gone on for days, so figured best to keep it short and simple!

jbreezy5

@phipiper10 - What are your thoughts after a year of ownership?

Do you favor the all-Rogue system you had, or have you developed more love for the Rogue/Pass combo?

I’m curious, because I’ve seen dissenting opinions on the x150.8 but think your review communicated the most clearly.

I’ve also heard Rogue RP-5 / ST100 recently, so have some frame of reference for the all-Rogue sound.

Have been contemplating Rogue RH-5 and x150.8 combo for my main rig.

Mike Reeter

jbreezy5 wrote: »

I’ve also heard Rogue RP-5 / ST100 recently, so have some frame of reference for the all-Rogue sound.

Have been contemplating Rogue RH-5 and x150.8 combo for my main rig.

I've read where a gentleman had a RH-5 and preferred it to both the RP-5 and RP-7. I think he was driving a Pass XA25. The RH-5 seems to get more praise for its line stage capabilities, than it does for it's Headphone signature.

phipiper10

@jbreezy5 I still have everything as it was but added a Denafrips Pontus II instead of using the Lumin T2 DAC, really nice. It's funny you ask because I'm considering a change somewhere in my setup but not sure what exactly I'm trying to accomplish.

Short answer is largely as I describe in the comparison, there is just a bit more magic with the Rogue Combo. The Rogue combo lacks the level of detail, dynamics and authority of the Pass. To be clear I'm not saying the Rogue combo is missing those things, it's just not to the extent of the Pass. To be fair I would describe the Pass as Hyper-dynamic and it might be just a bit too much of a good thing. Of course your mileage may vary depending on your listening habits and what you are looking for.

I'm a bit all over in what to do right now and to be honest haven't done that much listening in the past year.

It's a small effort to be able to demo items and of course bringing in used gear at the price of some of this stuff is not without risk. I know the x250.8 is supposed to be the sweet spot and maybe has a little magic which makes it so well regarded. I would love to try it out but the nearest Pass dealer rarely has anything but the int-60 on the shelf. I think most of the gear i have is pretty neutral, which is largely what I'm after but just a pinch richer, a little more harmonic distortion magic would be nice. I don't want to give up the benefits the Pass is providing in power and control and to continue to be somewhat dynamic.

I've not heard BAT gear but I did read this, "VK-255SE has the warmth and texture typically associated with the finest vacuum-tube designs combined with the dynamic capability of the best solid-state offerings." So this has piqued my interest and will check some reviews. I suspect it might lean to far warm side of neutral however and lack some of the transparency.

Almost all my gear is being considered for a change but the RP-7 is probably lowest on the list. If I could hear more Audio Physic I would seriously consider moving up but I'd consider other brands. Everything on the digital side is being considered right now since I effectively have two DACs.

Hopefully this was somewhat helpful. Best of luck and keep us posted on what you decide!
Rich

jbreezy5

phipiper10 wrote: »

@jbreezy5 I still have everything as it was but added a Denafrips Pontus II instead of using the Lumin T2 DAC, really nice. It's funny you ask because I'm considering a change somewhere in my setup but not sure what exactly I'm trying to accomplish.

Short answer is largely as I describe in the comparison, there is just a bit more magic with the Rogue Combo. The Rogue combo lacks the level of detail, dynamics and authority of the Pass. To be clear I'm not saying the Rogue combo is missing those things, it's just not to the extent of the Pass. To be fair I would describe the Pass as Hyper-dynamic and it might be just a bit too much of a good thing. Of course your mileage may vary depending on your listening habits and what you are looking for.

I'm a bit all over in what to do right now and to be honest haven't done that much listening in the past year.

It's a small effort to be able to demo items and of course bringing in used gear at the price of some of this stuff is not without risk. I know the x250.8 is supposed to be the sweet spot and maybe has a little magic which makes it so well regarded. I would love to try it out but the nearest Pass dealer rarely has anything but the int-60 on the shelf. I think most of the gear i have is pretty neutral, which is largely what I'm after but just a pinch richer, a little more harmonic distortion magic would be nice. I don't want to give up the benefits the Pass is providing in power and control and to continue to be somewhat dynamic.

I've not heard BAT gear but I did read this, "VK-255SE has the warmth and texture typically associated with the finest vacuum-tube designs combined with the dynamic capability of the best solid-state offerings." So this has piqued my interest and will check some reviews. I suspect it might lean to far warm side of neutral however and lack some of the transparency.

Almost all my gear is being considered for a change but the RP-7 is probably lowest on the list. If I could hear more Audio Physic I would seriously consider moving up but I'd consider other brands. Everything on the digital side is being considered right now since I effectively have two DACs.

Hopefully this was somewhat helpful. Best of luck and keep us posted on what you decide!
Rich

😮 Those are some big possibilities!

I have to say reading your listening preferences, as well as, the gear you’re drawn to leads me to believe we have very similar listening preferences.

I once owned a Pass x250.5 (😢) and I will say it was sweet and open sounding; I’ve never heard a solid-state amp soundstage/image like that did. There was also a hard to describe effortlessness to the sound of that thing. I don’t feel the bass was the tightest, or most slamming I’ve heard, but it was still more powerful than tube amp bass.

I don’t think my speakers presented any challenge to that amp, and if anything, I wonder if it ever had to “wake up”. I really think I would be well-served by a 150.5 or 150.8.

I had a x150 (plain vanilla) prior to the x250.5, which was very good, but a bit on the cool/bright side and very transparent and pretty smooth like a Pass.

The main reason I have pause regarding the .8 series is simply I haven’t heard them and some user reviews indicate a somewhat analytical sound from them (not what I want in an amp). Mark Sammut at Reno Hifi also told me the .5 series was just that little bit warmer/sweeter, closer to tube-like sound than the .8 series.

Part of me thinks people may be splitting hairs to some extent, but I trust user reviews more than pro reviews, since it is we who spend the $$$$; if buyers ain’t happy, they say so.

Is the reason you haven’t listened much the past year due to busy in life, or not drawn to the sound of your system?

jbreezy5

Mike Reeter wrote: »

jbreezy5 wrote: »

I’ve also heard Rogue RP-5 / ST100 recently, so have some frame of reference for the all-Rogue sound.

Have been contemplating Rogue RH-5 and x150.8 combo for my main rig.

I've read where a gentleman had a RH-5 and preferred it to both the RP-5 and RP-7. I think he was driving a Pass XA25. The RH-5 seems to get more praise for its line stage capabilities, than it does for it's Headphone signature.

Thanks for sharing; it seems to be the sweet-spot preamp with headphone capabilities, gain controls, and balanced/unbalanced ins/outs for a competitive price. I like the aesthetics better than the other models, but wish it had a balance control as the others do.

phipiper10

The main reason I have pause regarding the .8 series is simply I haven’t heard them and some user reviews indicate a somewhat analytical

I wouldn’t disagree with anyone who called it analytical, though I think it might be an oversimplification of what it offers. It certainly leans that side of neutral IMO.

Maybe I need a 250.5!