Crunch time!

AustinKP
AustinKP Posts: 861
edited June 2004 in Car Audio & Electronics
Ok, I'm wiring my car tonight. Is it ok to run my speaker wire next to my RCA's? Or is it better to run them next to my power wire. I don't think I have a third choice. In the case both are bad, would wrapping one or the other in aluminum foil help? If I have enough, I think I'm going both pairs of speaker wire on the same side, then take the one across behind the HU to the other side. Acceptable?
-Austin
http://www.silverdragon.com/punkie/cybertusk/net.idiot.html - Read it, know it

Alpine 9815
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Ascendant Audio Atlas 12
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  • neomagus00
    neomagus00 Posts: 3,899
    edited June 2004
    speaker wire and rca's next to each other is fine; definately not next to power wire. putting all speaker wire on one side is a good idea, too.
    It's not good, very fundamentally simply not good. - geolemon

    "Its not good enough until we have real-time fearmongering. I want my fear mongered as it happens." - Shizelbs
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  • Airplay355
    Airplay355 Posts: 4,298
    edited June 2004
    wrapping wire aroung things, or coiling it can create magnetic fields which you dont want, avoid coiling wire.
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  • AustinKP
    AustinKP Posts: 861
    edited June 2004
    Man, I'm having a heck of a time getting that 4ga wire through this rubber thing in the firewall. I'm having fun though and I think everything will work out. Any foreseeable problems running this wire next to the power wire for my HU? The alpine's have a separate power wire that runs straight to the battery...
    http://www.silverdragon.com/punkie/cybertusk/net.idiot.html - Read it, know it

    Alpine 9815
    Polk MM6's in custom fiberglass door pods
    Ascendant Audio Atlas 12
    HiFonics Zeus ZX6400 - 85x2 + 350x1
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  • neomagus00
    neomagus00 Posts: 3,899
    edited June 2004
    nope
    It's not good, very fundamentally simply not good. - geolemon

    "Its not good enough until we have real-time fearmongering. I want my fear mongered as it happens." - Shizelbs
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  • exalted512
    exalted512 Posts: 10,735
    edited June 2004
    hopefully you wont get interference, wrapping wire in aluminum foil is a no no....think about it, what do some people do to get better TV reception? wrap the antenna in foil...
    -Cody
    Music is like candy, you have to get rid of the rappers to enjoy it
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  • neomagus00
    neomagus00 Posts: 3,899
    edited June 2004
    airplay makes a good point, avoid coils; if you have way too long of a run (like my rca's) lay it out in strips instead... i'll put a pic on my sounddomain site tomorrow to show you what i mean...
    It's not good, very fundamentally simply not good. - geolemon

    "Its not good enough until we have real-time fearmongering. I want my fear mongered as it happens." - Shizelbs
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  • AustinKP
    AustinKP Posts: 861
    edited June 2004
    Originally posted by exalted512
    hopefully you wont get interference, wrapping wire in aluminum foil is a no no....think about it, what do some people do to get better TV reception? wrap the antenna in foil...
    -Cody
    Yeah, but isn't that what shielded cables are? Just regular cables wrapped in foil? I just don't want my speaker wire to interfere with my RCA's...
    http://www.silverdragon.com/punkie/cybertusk/net.idiot.html - Read it, know it

    Alpine 9815
    Polk MM6's in custom fiberglass door pods
    Ascendant Audio Atlas 12
    HiFonics Zeus ZX6400 - 85x2 + 350x1
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  • exalted512
    exalted512 Posts: 10,735
    edited June 2004
    i seriously doubt youll have problems
    -Cody
    Music is like candy, you have to get rid of the rappers to enjoy it
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  • neomagus00
    neomagus00 Posts: 3,899
    edited June 2004
    yeah, speaker wire/rca interference, as long as both are okay cables, is no biggie.

    i remember a foil-wrapping debate a while ago... how did that end up? cause both of you are right, i think, but that doesn't make sense...
    It's not good, very fundamentally simply not good. - geolemon

    "Its not good enough until we have real-time fearmongering. I want my fear mongered as it happens." - Shizelbs
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  • TrappedUnder Ice
    TrappedUnder Ice Posts: 975
    edited June 2004
    Unless your using god Awefull rca's and speaker wire...running along side power wire should not induce noise....this was more common in the old days {hence..i'm not young :)}
    Most time you pick up noise running your rca's/speaker wire near the cars electronics or a bad ground! Granted.>>>I still seperate my wires..for the most part.... power down the side... others up the center...

    just a little common sense ...btw foil will help in shielding emf... but its really not needed
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  • AustinKP
    AustinKP Posts: 861
    edited June 2004
    Ok, my biggest concern was because of time correction, the signal going through the speaker wire and the signal through the RCA's would be different and I didn't know if that would cause interference. I guess I won't worry about it. Thanks for all the input guys. :)
    http://www.silverdragon.com/punkie/cybertusk/net.idiot.html - Read it, know it

    Alpine 9815
    Polk MM6's in custom fiberglass door pods
    Ascendant Audio Atlas 12
    HiFonics Zeus ZX6400 - 85x2 + 350x1
    2 Gallons SecondSkin Spectrum V.2
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  • Systems
    Systems Posts: 14,873
    edited June 2004
    The foil idea would only help things if you grounded the ends. The shielding on a wire isn't so much there to block interference, per se, but is there to intercept any interfering signals and short them to ground so that your conductor wire doesn't pick up any of these signals, which would mess up your original signal . Hope that reads correctly...
    Testing
    Testing
    Testing
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  • Steve@3dai
    Steve@3dai Posts: 983
    edited June 2004
    Originally posted by AustinKP
    Ok, my biggest concern was because of time correction, the signal going through the speaker wire and the signal through the RCA's would be different and I didn't know if that would cause interference. I guess I won't worry about it. Thanks for all the input guys. :)

    The only case where you are going to get time correction problems is if you have like a crapload of extra cable. Like 100s of feet I would think. I don't think the brain can deduce a few milliseconds ;)

    40+ milliseconds, maybe, maybe. But to get 40+ milliseconds, you gotta have a crapload of wire ;)
    LSi 9/C/FX
    Arcam AVR-200
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  • AustinKP
    AustinKP Posts: 861
    edited June 2004
    Originally posted by huggies
    The foil idea would only help things if you grounded the ends. The shielding on a wire isn't so much there to block interference, per se, but is there to intercept any interfering signals and short them to ground so that your conductor wire doesn't pick up any of these signals, which would mess up your original signal . Hope that reads correctly...
    That makes a ton of sense, thanks.
    Originally posted by Steve@3dai
    I don't think the brain can deduce a few milliseconds
    Maybe the brain can't, but your ears sure can. That's what time correction does. Adjusting one speaker by a couple tenths of a millisecond audibly moves the sound stage around the car.
    http://www.silverdragon.com/punkie/cybertusk/net.idiot.html - Read it, know it

    Alpine 9815
    Polk MM6's in custom fiberglass door pods
    Ascendant Audio Atlas 12
    HiFonics Zeus ZX6400 - 85x2 + 350x1
    2 Gallons SecondSkin Spectrum V.2
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  • neomagus00
    neomagus00 Posts: 3,899
    edited June 2004
    yeah, those milliseconds count; for example, changing the delay for surrounds in my HT system by 5 ms makes a drastic difference (well, it would if i had them all hooked up still :))... i think it's called the "Haas precedence effect". i think.
    It's not good, very fundamentally simply not good. - geolemon

    "Its not good enough until we have real-time fearmongering. I want my fear mongered as it happens." - Shizelbs
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  • MacLeod
    MacLeod Posts: 14,358
    edited June 2004
    Ive thought about this before too. I have all my speaker wire running down the same side of my truck which means the drivers side speaker has about 6 feet extra wire to it. I was worried about time delay which would shift my soundstage way to the right. But Im kind of an astronomy buff and remembered something. The signal is travelling thru the wires at the speed of light...186,000 per second. At that rate, the delay for 6 feet would be less than a nano-second (billionth of a second [aint I smart]).

    Ive not proven this with any laboratory tests but I think its a good bet.
    polkaudio sound quality competitor since 2005
    MECA SQ Rookie of the Year 06 ~ MECA State Champ 06,07,08,11 ~ MECA World Finals 2nd place 06,07,08,09
    08 Car Audio Nationals 1st ~ 07 N Georgia Nationals 1st ~ 06 Carl Casper Nationals 1st ~ USACi 05 Southeast AutumnFest 1st

    polkaudio SR6500 --- polkaudio MM1040 x2 -- Pioneer P99 -- Rockford Fosgate P1000X5D
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  • neomagus00
    neomagus00 Posts: 3,899
    edited June 2004
    6 nanoseconds i think... but damn, that's fast :p... yeah, i vote that wire lengths don't matter, not for time; but for phase, that's an entirely different matter - if you have a 1kHz tone going through an extra 6 feet of wire, it's sure not gonna match up with the other channel, right?

    well, excuse my misuse of time and phase cause here they're the same thing...
    It's not good, very fundamentally simply not good. - geolemon

    "Its not good enough until we have real-time fearmongering. I want my fear mongered as it happens." - Shizelbs
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  • MacLeod
    MacLeod Posts: 14,358
    edited June 2004
    I dont know. My amps mount under the back seat in the center so I will eventually re-wire my rig with 4 gauge once I get bigger amps and when I do I will probably do it like Cody and run the left speaker down the left side and right down the right side and route power cable down the middle. Damn ingenius actually!

    Good thing youre going to A & M bro, youre too sharp for UT!! :p
    polkaudio sound quality competitor since 2005
    MECA SQ Rookie of the Year 06 ~ MECA State Champ 06,07,08,11 ~ MECA World Finals 2nd place 06,07,08,09
    08 Car Audio Nationals 1st ~ 07 N Georgia Nationals 1st ~ 06 Carl Casper Nationals 1st ~ USACi 05 Southeast AutumnFest 1st

    polkaudio SR6500 --- polkaudio MM1040 x2 -- Pioneer P99 -- Rockford Fosgate P1000X5D
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  • exalted512
    exalted512 Posts: 10,735
    edited June 2004
    who would want to go to UT anyway?
    scrubs...
    lol
    -Cody
    Music is like candy, you have to get rid of the rappers to enjoy it
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  • MacLeod
    MacLeod Posts: 14,358
    edited June 2004
    I told this joke months ago and NOBODY got it but Im gonna try again since you may now.

    {ahem}
    Do you know what they do with students that flunk out of A & M? They cut off their 2 middle fingers and send them to Austin (UT)!!

    {crickets chirping}..................{tumble weed blows by}........

    Hey, is this thing on?
    polkaudio sound quality competitor since 2005
    MECA SQ Rookie of the Year 06 ~ MECA State Champ 06,07,08,11 ~ MECA World Finals 2nd place 06,07,08,09
    08 Car Audio Nationals 1st ~ 07 N Georgia Nationals 1st ~ 06 Carl Casper Nationals 1st ~ USACi 05 Southeast AutumnFest 1st

    polkaudio SR6500 --- polkaudio MM1040 x2 -- Pioneer P99 -- Rockford Fosgate P1000X5D
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  • neomagus00
    neomagus00 Posts: 3,899
    edited June 2004
    i sure dont get it, maybe its a texas thing...

    back to wiring, who's the best of the best? scosche, streetwires, stinger, etc.?
    It's not good, very fundamentally simply not good. - geolemon

    "Its not good enough until we have real-time fearmongering. I want my fear mongered as it happens." - Shizelbs
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  • exalted512
    exalted512 Posts: 10,735
    edited June 2004
    i got it the last time you said it...the reason ppl didnt get it was probably b/c no one knows UT 'sign'
    SAW 'EM OFF!
    -Cody
    Music is like candy, you have to get rid of the rappers to enjoy it
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  • exalted512
    exalted512 Posts: 10,735
    edited June 2004
    wiring is wiring
    whatevers cheap and has a decent strand count
    ie www.knukonceptz.com
    -Cody
    Music is like candy, you have to get rid of the rappers to enjoy it
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  • MacLeod
    MacLeod Posts: 14,358
    edited June 2004
    Im kind of partial to Tsunami and Streetwires myself. Im sure there all fine products but Ill stick with these two til they let me down.
    polkaudio sound quality competitor since 2005
    MECA SQ Rookie of the Year 06 ~ MECA State Champ 06,07,08,11 ~ MECA World Finals 2nd place 06,07,08,09
    08 Car Audio Nationals 1st ~ 07 N Georgia Nationals 1st ~ 06 Carl Casper Nationals 1st ~ USACi 05 Southeast AutumnFest 1st

    polkaudio SR6500 --- polkaudio MM1040 x2 -- Pioneer P99 -- Rockford Fosgate P1000X5D
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  • neomagus00
    neomagus00 Posts: 3,899
    edited June 2004
    i forgot to mention - more specifically, rca's... yeah, speaker wire and power wire is just wire, but the rcas are where a lot of noise is picked up, and i'm really really really sensitive to noise; it pisses me off like no other, and i have a desperate need to get rid of it at nearly any cost, so i was looking at stinger's expert series rca's... is there anything better out there?
    It's not good, very fundamentally simply not good. - geolemon

    "Its not good enough until we have real-time fearmongering. I want my fear mongered as it happens." - Shizelbs
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  • exalted512
    exalted512 Posts: 10,735
    edited June 2004
    SW 3.0s are 6.0s, anything else is overkill
    -Cody
    Music is like candy, you have to get rid of the rappers to enjoy it
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  • AustinKP
    AustinKP Posts: 861
    edited June 2004
    Well, I finally finished hooking up my amp myself at 4:00 am. I'm so tired, I just turned it on to make sure it works with the gain all the way down. Already, it's louder than running them off my HU. I used the standard KK patch cables and NO noise. I was very impressed that I got it to work on my very first try! More later once I've gotten to play around with it a bit....
    http://www.silverdragon.com/punkie/cybertusk/net.idiot.html - Read it, know it

    Alpine 9815
    Polk MM6's in custom fiberglass door pods
    Ascendant Audio Atlas 12
    HiFonics Zeus ZX6400 - 85x2 + 350x1
    2 Gallons SecondSkin Spectrum V.2
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  • MacLeod
    MacLeod Posts: 14,358
    edited June 2004
    Yeah, youre running about 200 rms per channel so its gonna be quite a big difference from 9 rms! LOL ;)
    polkaudio sound quality competitor since 2005
    MECA SQ Rookie of the Year 06 ~ MECA State Champ 06,07,08,11 ~ MECA World Finals 2nd place 06,07,08,09
    08 Car Audio Nationals 1st ~ 07 N Georgia Nationals 1st ~ 06 Carl Casper Nationals 1st ~ USACi 05 Southeast AutumnFest 1st

    polkaudio SR6500 --- polkaudio MM1040 x2 -- Pioneer P99 -- Rockford Fosgate P1000X5D
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  • exalted512
    exalted512 Posts: 10,735
    edited June 2004
    RCAs dont really matter that much, i buy good ones because they last longer and theres a lot less chance of getting noise in them
    so i spend the extra money so i dont have to do extra work...lol
    -Cody
    Music is like candy, you have to get rid of the rappers to enjoy it
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  • MacLeod
    MacLeod Posts: 14,358
    edited June 2004
    I think that when it comes to RCA's its best to get the most expensive set you can afford. Since RCAs are the most suceptable (spelling?) to noise, youll want the best protection you can get.

    Im using Monster Cable home RCAs right now and they are ok but I will eventually snag me a high end set of either Streetwires or Tsunami.
    polkaudio sound quality competitor since 2005
    MECA SQ Rookie of the Year 06 ~ MECA State Champ 06,07,08,11 ~ MECA World Finals 2nd place 06,07,08,09
    08 Car Audio Nationals 1st ~ 07 N Georgia Nationals 1st ~ 06 Carl Casper Nationals 1st ~ USACi 05 Southeast AutumnFest 1st

    polkaudio SR6500 --- polkaudio MM1040 x2 -- Pioneer P99 -- Rockford Fosgate P1000X5D
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