Vintage Klipsch Heresy Pair

jbreezy5

I posted elsewhere about these, but feel they are going to warrant some discussion.








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mhardy6647

Opinions on the Heresys definitely cover the spectrum.

msg

Nice, so what do you think?

Side note, "Press Return to deactivate the screen saver" is my favorite track by Screen Saver. I thought I was the only one who liked them. I also like the opener for that album.

jbreezy5

I had been drooling over current model Cornwall IVs, but space and cost limitations made them unobtanium for me. I knew that Heresies were made to complement Cornwalls in surround applications and was intrigued by those as well. The plethora of professional reviews on Youtube only made them more enticing, but they still were more than I wanted to spend.

I found these at a local record store, and had less than ideal listening conditions to evaluate them prior to purchase. Their sonic reputation precedes them, and yet there seems to be divided camps regarding their sound. One e-tailer I found even claimed that Klipsch Heritage speakers should not be thought of as harsh sounding, if anything, just the opposite if broken in properly.

Well, in the setting that I found and auditioned them, that seemed to be the case. The sound seemed full, immediate (not a word I usually get to use to describe speakers), detailed, effortless, even. There was something really right about the sound. Additionally, the cabinets are in outstanding condition for their age.

So I plunked down the cash (er, card) and took’em home. I hurriedly hooked them up and hit play on my cd player, and… wth!

They sounded thin, small(!), midrangey, no bass. Like nails on a chalkboard. Nothing like what I thought I’d heard at the store. More like what many persons who don't like the Klipsch house sound usually describe. To be honest, I was quickly beginning to think I made a big mistake with this purchase.

So I sat and pondered what could make such a difference. The store is a rather cluttered place, the Klipsch were stacked on top of other speakers and were in close proximity to me (maybe 3 feet away). In my room, they are about 8 feet away from me, and spread further apart than at the store. So I realized they lack boundary reinforcement to support bass frequencies.

Luckily, my Yamaha receiver has YPAO DIRAC. So I ran the setup microphone and crossed my fingers, thinking one can’t expect miracles.

BUT, miracles do happen! The calibration made these heretics sound downright righteous! All of the great characteristics I heard at the store returned, there was bass, quick, detailed, and with reasonable fullness, though not depth. The overall immediacy remained, as well as, the ability to hear more into a recording; trailing sounds last just that little bit longer allowing me to hear things that average sensitivity speakers seem to miss. The other benefit of high dB speakers (low distortion) was readily apparent as they seem to have no sense of strain. Lastly, there was great coherency between the speaker drivers with the microphone calibration; not so, without it.

Needless to say, I’m very happy with these speakers now. I’m going to be able to do further experimentation with these, as I have a DBX Driverack and a PL Prologue Five tube amp. I also have KT88s and 6CA7s. Lastly, I can supplement the bass with a REL sub, if I want more depth (highly likely).

This doesn’t even get into crossover updates, which I expect these will need. Anyone know the crossover parts values I will need?

I’ve got my work cut out for me, but I’m gonna just sit and enjoy them with the Yamaha for a while.

My initial advice to those who are curious about these speakers is DIRAC, for sure; to me this is indispensible for getting the best sound from these. Otherwise, close placement to boundaries, and warm-sounding electronics if one dares go without it. These speakers can sound incredible, however, they are not plug-and-play, IMO.

msg

Wow, great info! Glad to hear you were able to get the setup worked out. That'd have made for a pucker moment for me, as well.

So what year are these speakers, do you know?

I read about those Cornwall IVs, too. I'd love to hear a pair properly set up based on the couple of reviews I read. I've never heard any of the big or vintage Klipsch speakers.

jbreezy5

Not sure of the year, but opened one up to look at the crossover, and it says “E-2”, and I think that was the last crossover for the Heresy I, based on things found online.

Fair warning, the Cornwall IVs are beguiling, as they don’t sound how one might expect based on their sheer size; especially in terms of bass and fullness.

If you want a more full, traditional kind of bass, listen to the Forte’s (although these can present a challenge to room placement, due to the rear-firing passive radiator). The Cornwalls and Heresies veer strongly away from that type of bass reproduction.

WHEN SPEAKING OF THE KLIPSCH HERITAGE SERIES, ONE MUST AUDITION BEFORE PURCHASE; YE BE WARNED!

That’s true of all speakers, but these especially, IMO.

jbreezy5

mhardy6647

The "Y" in the serial number represents the model year.
1983

https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/161759-klipsch-heritage-codes/

my Cornies Cornwalls were from 1974 ("M")

The 33 uF crossover capacitor in the photo above isn't original. It's a decent quality electrolytic... but it is an electrolytic. Is it even an NP electrolytic? It should, of course, be. I don't know my Nichicons well enough to be able to tell.

The tweeter is the ceramic ("mud") magnet morph of the EV T35 ("K77") tweeter.
Woofer is probably Eminence OEM, although I dont' see the EIA code on it. It does bear the mfg. date (10/83).
Midrange driver isn't the Atlas PA driver used on many "heritage" Klipsch. 575, the apparent EIA code, indicates it's made by Heppner.

jbreezy5

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Thanks for the info and the link!

Do you know what the black boxes are on either side of the Nippon? I assumed they were caps.

pitdogg2

mhardy6647 wrote: »

Is it even an NP electrolytic? It should, of course, be. I don't know my Nichicons well enough to be able to tell.

Nope it is a standard polarized Chemi-con, both leads come out of the bottom. probably cost .40 cents

DaveHo

Have had Forte II's before, currently playing around with a pair of kg4's. The heritage series always seem to require a LOT of fiddling to get them listenable. Greed got the better of me and I sold the Forte's for a nice profit. Still working on getting the kg4's to sound good. I'll probably move them soon. They play loud, and that's where the complements end. I guess I'm just in the "not a fan" camp.

motorstereo

I had 3 pair here at the same time a few years ago. One pair was the newer style with the slanted risers and passive and the other 2 pair were the older style Heresys. I preferred the newer style Heresy over the old ones but not enough to hang on to a pair. One redeeming quality they have is they sell quickly and for good $. The only Klipsch speakers that have survived here are khorns which are completely different from the kg's, Choruses, and Heresys that have spent time here.

audioluvr

I had a pair of the original Forte's that I updated with the Crites custom crossovers. Dynomatted baskets etc and like @DaveHo sold them. They just didn't do it for me. My modded KG4's on the other hand IMHO are more balanced and natural sounding. I would love a pair of the Klipschorns but I just don't have an auditorium to house them

motorstereo

^^^^^^I would love a pair of the Klipschorns but I just don't have an auditorium to house them

No auditorium here either as I have mine in a much too small room (11X16) and they still sound ok. They're not smooth all day listening Polk type sound but they are the best sounding horn speaker I've had here.

jbreezy5

Yeah, sounds like several of you experienced what I did when set-up the Heresies at home.

That seems to be further confirmation for the necessity of DIRAC. Otherwise, I would have been looking to sell mine also.

Now, I think they’ll stay.

mhardy6647

pitdogg2 wrote: »

mhardy6647 wrote: »

Is it even an NP electrolytic? It should, of course, be. I don't know my Nichicons well enough to be able to tell.

Nope it is a standard polarized Chemi-con, both leads come out of the bottom. probably cost .40 cents

umm, that can't be right -- can it? I mean, not that you're not right! I agree with you -- but I cannot imagine they used a polarzed XO on purpose in those(?!?). Did they? I mean, I am no expert on Heresys (by choice!).

As to the other two l'il black boxes -- I thought there'd be one or two power resistors in the Heresy XO. But they're normally of the "sand cast" (ceramic package) kind. So... I dunno. Maybe capacitors, indeed.

mhardy6647

Besides the K-horns (which aren't bad stock & can be made much, much better with a little love), the only "Heritage" Klipsch loudspeakers I like(d) were the Chorus. They don't really count as "Heritage" Klipsch, but they're pretty dandy with empathetic amplification.

Many folks feel that Heresys may be greatly improved with proper placement -- that placement being flat on the floor, face down.

mhardy6647

Here's -- apparently -- the scoop on the E-2 crossover,which I am guessing supplanted the E version when they went to the ceramic magnet tweeter (and a different MR driver than the ol' Atlas).
(EDIT: Here's, apparently, confirmation of my guess: https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/28463-heresy-type-e-vs-e-2-crossover/&do=findComment&comment=239209)




Note that this comes from a thread discussing improvements to the ghastly MR and HF excesses of the XO (at least in the mind and ears of one end-user); the red components in the XO schematic were added to tame the MR & HF a bit. Source: https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/198858-stuffing-an-heresy-i/&tab=comments#comment-2599256

That does look like "the same" flavor of polarized electrolytic in the photo -- although the schematic suggests an NP electrolytic as presented in the thread above (?!?).

Here's a closer-upper view from another thread of the 33 uF cap.


source: https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/199419-heresy-i-e-2-crossover-capacitor-upgrade-recommendations/&tab=comments#comment-2608031

looks like it says "CE04P" -- which does appear (??) to make it an NP electrolytic.
I am no expert on the Nippon Chemi-Cons myself, unfortunately.
Pretty much no matter what it is, I'd replace it with pretty much any affordable NON-electrolytic capacitor, though.
("affordable", of course, being relative for a 33 uF cap)

The other two little black boxes are apparently both 2 uF capacitors of some sort. They'd almost certainly benefit from an "upgrade", too.

pitdogg2

I'm no cap professional either but all polarized I've seen look just like it 😬

This is what I'm familiar seeing as an NP electro

https://www.parts-express.com/33uF-100V-Non-Polarized-Capacitor-027-350

To the OP does that cap have a white stripe on one side?

audioluvr

Bob Crites used to replace all that with Sonicaps and Erse air core inductors. Just saying.

mhardy6647

pitdogg2 wrote: »

...
To the OP does that cap have a white stripe on one side?

YUP, that's the... umm... 99 cent question.

FWIW I don't think a polarized electrolytic will work properly as a filter for an audio crossover -- but I don't actually "know" that.

mhardy6647

audioluvr wrote: »

Bob Crites used to replace all that with Sonicaps and Erse air core inductors. Just saying.

Couldn't hurt, alhough he also proffered drivers with titanium diaphragms, if memory serves.

jbreezy5

Thanks for the info everyone. The Crites E2, just looks like a pair of Sonicaps, and same electrolytic(?!).

https://critesspeakers.com/_Media/bktypee2jpg_med-2.jpeg

jbreezy5

I wouldn’t think that the impedance rise at 3k-5k Hz would be hard on a low-watt power tube amp; if anything, the opposite, which is actually what would cause the frequency response rise in that area on such an amp.

mhardy6647

jbreezy5 wrote: »

I wouldn’t think that the impedance rise at 3k-5k Hz would be hard on a low-watt power tube amp; if anything, the opposite, which is actually what would cause the frequency response rise in that area on such an amp.

Which is exactly what a Heresy doesn't need.

jbreezy5 wrote: »

Thanks for the info everyone. The Crites E2, just looks like a pair of Sonicaps, and same electrolytic(?!).

The late Mr. Crites notwithstanding, I would lose that electrolytic, pronto.

pitdogg2

That is the type of np electrolytic I'm used to seeing.
Sonic Craft stocks a 33uf 200v
http://www.soniccraft.com/product_info.php/gen-sonicap-33-uf-200vdc-p-464

$85

mhardy6647

pitdogg2 wrote: »

That is the type of np electrolytic I'm used to seeing.
Sonic Craft stocks a 33uf 200v
http://www.soniccraft.com/product_info.php/gen-sonicap-33-uf-200vdc-p-464

$85

Those aren't polarized, but neither are they electrolytics.
Electrolytic capacitors were developed to provide lots of capacitance (even at high voltage ratings) in a small package. Their design give them a polarity. NP electrolytics are, as I understand it, just two normal electrolytics wired head-to-tail (so to speak). They are kind of icky devices in general (figuratively and even literally, when anything goes wrong with them), and especially icky for audio use.

Most of the tube gurus abhor electrolytics in active circuits, too (even in linear power supplies). Here's a preamp my friend Alan built, e.g., with nary an electrolytic capacitor in it.

jbreezy5

pitdogg2 wrote: »

That is the type of np electrolytic I'm used to seeing.
Sonic Craft stocks a 33uf 200v
http://www.soniccraft.com/product_info.php/gen-sonicap-33-uf-200vdc-p-464

$85

At that price for one capacitor I had to look around more. If I make crossover upgrades, I don’t intend to exceed the cost of that I paid for the speakers, which was about $650 after tax.

Learned about Al Kleppinger whom has a plethora of knowledge about the Klipsch Heritage series and offers complete crossovers that aren’t mere part swaps. He designs his to have a flat impedance curve to make them more compatible with tube amps (perfect for my intentions).

I’m not ready to pull the trigger, and he’s pending parts for order fulfillment. Looks like like a quality upgrade though.

jbreezy5

Put the PrimaLuna Prologue Five into action. All stock PL tubes, KT88 (x4), 12au7 (x2), and 12ax7 (2).

YPAO’ed it with the Heresy pair, and a small 10” Axiom ported, powered sub.

This combo delivers lithe sounds on instruments and vocals. You get timbre, texture, lingering/trailing sounds, subtlety, and dare I say it… delicacy(!).

There’s now something really engaging about the sound that makes me want to listen more.

Gonna hate myself in the morning.

jbreezy5

erniejade

Late to the party. I have heard the Forte 3's a few times. I thought they were a fun speaker and nothing like the original or the older Heresy's I have heard. I also want to hear Cornwall IV based on Sean and Steve's reviews.