Polk RTA 11T as rear surround speaker - elevation too low?
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pkquat
Posts: 742
in Electronics
Has anyone ever used RTA11's as rear surrounds? I like the bass, but I am wondering if they need to be higher. The tweeters about ear height when sitting on the couch. They sounded good as 2Ch fronts with the same couch.
Are surrounds supposed to be higher or am I just "used" to that. I have always seen surround speakers mounted fairly high, and I had 5jr+s as surrounds mounted higher. I liked the RTA 11T for the full range surround, but feel they are lacking creating a spacious surround. I like them closer to the couch for the full range, but they are a little more to the side this way. I tried different angles and placing them further back near where the 5jrs were, and not much changed but the bass dropped some when they were further back. I re-ran the receiver calibration for each location and manually played with the settings a little. I placed the 5jr's on top of the RTA's and thought that sounded better. The 5jrs as surrounds are normally about standing height (6'tall) looking right at the tweeter.
Are surrounds supposed to be higher or am I just "used" to that. I have always seen surround speakers mounted fairly high, and I had 5jr+s as surrounds mounted higher. I liked the RTA 11T for the full range surround, but feel they are lacking creating a spacious surround. I like them closer to the couch for the full range, but they are a little more to the side this way. I tried different angles and placing them further back near where the 5jrs were, and not much changed but the bass dropped some when they were further back. I re-ran the receiver calibration for each location and manually played with the settings a little. I placed the 5jr's on top of the RTA's and thought that sounded better. The 5jrs as surrounds are normally about standing height (6'tall) looking right at the tweeter.
Comments
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What are you listening to that has much bass in the surrounds? Do you not have a sub?Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
I have read that rears (surrounds) should be a bit higher than your ears. Whether that is true or not is up to your ears. My rears are PSB Synchrony One towers so the position of the tweeter or mid depends if I am slouching or sitting upright on the couch.Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
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Three 20 amp circuits. -
And I thought I was doing well with my RTA11TL's as L&R mains... Go figure?Stan
Main 2ch:
Polk LSi15 (DB840 upgrade), Parasound: P/LD-1100, HCA-1000A; Denon: DVD-2910, DRM-800A; Benchmark DAC1, Monster HTS3600-MKII, Grado SR-225i; Technics SL-J2, Parasound PPH-100.
HT:
Marantz SR7010, Polk: RTA11TL (RDO198-1, XO and Damping Upgrades), S4, CS250, PSW110 , Marantz UD5005, Pioneer PL-530, Panasonic TC-P42S60
Other stuff:
Denon: DRA-835R, AVR-888, DCD-660, DRM-700A, DRR-780; Polk: S8, Monitor 5A, 5B, TSi100, RM7, PSW10 (DXi104 upgrade); Pioneer: CT-6R; Onkyo CP-1046F; Ortofon OM5E, Marantz: PM5004, CD5004, CDR-615; Parasound C/PT-600, HCA-800ii, Sony CDP-650ESD, Technics SA 5070, B&W DM601 -
And I thought I was doing well with my RTA11TL's as L&R mains... Go figure?
Slacker... -
What are you listening to that has much bass in the surrounds? Do you not have a sub?
Blu-Ray and even broadcast movies have some deep stuff going to surrounds if you run them full range.
No sub. Although I did try my old re-foamed Velodyne F-1200B for a bit. It added some deep end, but it was about the same as 1C's as mains when I used the RTA11Ts as mains with the sub. That sub blends really well with some RT-5's so it is back with them. A modern sub would do better for HT.
I am running 4/5Ch setup (most often no center). I ran the 5Jr+ full range and got the clack a few times on movies. I didn't know there was that much bass in a rear channel. That got me wondering, so I tried the 11T in the rear. I like the full range bass and I feel it does add some spaciousness in the lower end. The upper end more directional spaciousness or detail seem to be lacking.I have read that rears (surrounds) should be a bit higher than your ears. Whether that is true or not is up to your ears. My rears are PSB Synchrony One towers so the position of the tweeter or mid depends if I am slouching or sitting upright on the couch.
Do you notice much difference if you are sitting or slouching? Also those tweeters look like they would be lower than the 11Ts. If the highs are good for you, I wonder if it is the MTM layout. Your speakers are not really an MTM design. I wonder if that layout winds up directly some of the tweeter signal upwards?.
I got a lucky find of some cheap RTA11Ts that had mostly cosmetic damage.And I thought I was doing well with my RTA11TL's as L&R mains... Go figure?
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What are you listening to that has much bass in the surrounds? Do you not have a sub?
Blu-Ray and even broadcast movies have some deep stuff going to surrounds if you run them full range.
No sub. Although I did try my old re-foamed Velodyne F-1200B for a bit. It added some deep end, but it was about the same as 1C's as mains when I used the RTA11Ts as mains with the sub. That sub blends really well with some RT-5's so it is back with them. A modern sub would do better for HT.
I am running 4/5Ch setup (most often no center). I ran the 5Jr+ full range and got the clack a few times on movies. I didn't know there was that much bass in a rear channel. That got me wondering, so I tried the 11T in the rear. I like the full range bass and I feel it does add some spaciousness in the lower end. The upper end more directional spaciousness or detail seem to be lacking.I have read that rears (surrounds) should be a bit higher than your ears. Whether that is true or not is up to your ears. My rears are PSB Synchrony One towers so the position of the tweeter or mid depends if I am slouching or sitting upright on the couch.
Do you notice much difference if you are sitting or slouching? Also those tweeters look like they would be lower than the 11Ts. If the highs are good for you, I wonder if it is the MTM layout. Your speakers are not really an MTM design. I wonder if that layout winds up directly some of the tweeter signal upwards?.
I got a lucky find of some cheap RTA11Ts that had mostly cosmetic damage.And I thought I was doing well with my RTA11TL's as L&R mains... Go figure?
Ask @BlueFox when the last time he watched a movie 🤣Living Room 2.2: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Arcam SA30; Musical Fidelity A308; Sony UBP-x1000es; Squeezebox Touch with Bolder Power Supply
Game Room 5.1.4: Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 900 mains, CLR-3000 center, StudioMonitor 350 surrounds, ProMonitor 800 atmos x4; Sub - Monoprice Monolith 15in THX Ultra
Bedroom 2.1Cambridge Azur 551r; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer -
You need a sub for HT.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
No point running the surrounds "Full range"
Get a decent sub as F1 says, and it will easily out do what you have now.
The 1c's are decent, but just can not compete with a good sub (with home theatre bass levels) as far as deep bass extension and power handling. For 2 channel music they are fine for most stuff, though.
Then send the Rta11s to me! -
Some day I will have a sub and will see. Generally I have been pretty sensitive to low frequency location. Most of the cuttoffs are around 50-60Hz and then I pick up the 35-50Hz from the sub and key in on the location. Sometimes I feel the the timing doesn't gel, but that may be more of a me picking up the location of the sub.
The end conclusion is the tweeters need to be higher, or it is an MTM issue. I tried some M4's on top of the 11Ts with the tweeter on top and then upside down with the tweeter on the bottom. Both ways sounded better, but I would say the tweeter on top sounded a little better. Putting the 5jr+'s on top with the tweeters high was again a little better, but that may be the tweeter. They sounded about the same as high. The also sounded pretty good updside down, about like the M4's. I raised the 11Ts about 1 foot on some plastic file boxes. This sounded a little better, but not as good as the TM setup with the other speakers. I then used the 5jrs+ laid sideways on top of the file boxes with some towels to prevent scratching to raise the 11T's tweeters to the about same height as the M4's. This helped the surround effect, but IMO something is still missing with the spaciousness. My only guess is with a TM setup there are more reflections or openness of the tweeter. My only other thought is the crossover in the 5jr+ might be affecting things.
It has been a while if I remember correctly, as front mains the RTA 11T and 5B on polk stands sounded similar in the midrange and highs, and the 5B's and 5jr+ sounded similar on a shelf. Maybe some RT series towers will pop up at a good price and I can try those and see if the TMM setup makes a difference. -
The MTM tweeter issue that you are pointing to... I believe this is why Polk added the spoiler between the tweeter and the upper MW on the TL version. It allows the tweeter to project more upward.Stan
Main 2ch:
Polk LSi15 (DB840 upgrade), Parasound: P/LD-1100, HCA-1000A; Denon: DVD-2910, DRM-800A; Benchmark DAC1, Monster HTS3600-MKII, Grado SR-225i; Technics SL-J2, Parasound PPH-100.
HT:
Marantz SR7010, Polk: RTA11TL (RDO198-1, XO and Damping Upgrades), S4, CS250, PSW110 , Marantz UD5005, Pioneer PL-530, Panasonic TC-P42S60
Other stuff:
Denon: DRA-835R, AVR-888, DCD-660, DRM-700A, DRR-780; Polk: S8, Monitor 5A, 5B, TSi100, RM7, PSW10 (DXi104 upgrade); Pioneer: CT-6R; Onkyo CP-1046F; Ortofon OM5E, Marantz: PM5004, CD5004, CDR-615; Parasound C/PT-600, HCA-800ii, Sony CDP-650ESD, Technics SA 5070, B&W DM601 -
I forgot about that Tech brief. TY
The spoiler always made be wonder why it was needed. In theory, I thought MTM should not need it, and reduced combing if the design was right, but there can be time alignment issues. I've read up on them, but the super technical parts go way over my head. Some articles talk about the great benefits of MTM, but then other articles end with, there is a reason many multi driver speakers are not MTM. -
I forgot about that Tech brief. TY
The spoiler always made be wonder why it was needed. In theory, I thought MTM should not need it, and reduced combing if the design was right, but there can be time alignment issues. I've read up on them, but the super technical parts go way over my head. Some articles talk about the great benefits of MTM, but then other articles end with, there is a reason many multi driver speakers are not MTM.
I believe the issue, is both midwoofers running up to the crossover point.
If one was rolled off a good bit lower in frequency, that would greatly reduce any combing issues.
That was implemented in the Later Lsi line of speakers.
