Now that's a cap!

VR3
VR3 Posts: 24,484
0y9op7dn40g1.jpeg
- Not Tom

"No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro

Comments

  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 18,537
    You're putting that in those Radio Shack speakers right?
    😉
  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 24,484
    - Not Tom

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • Gerres26
    Gerres26 Posts: 764
    Good god! Are these going in my old speakers??? If so, I’m definitely glad they went to @ptrooper !
  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 24,484
    Yes sir, gonna be badddddd to the bone
    - Not Tom

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • JayCee
    JayCee Posts: 1,176
    edited April 2
    External XO?

    I see the Rob's rings. I hit my set w/black primer after cleaning them and just yesterday, finished replacing Larry's rings with them. Mad respect for Larry's but these are a different design on steroids. Haven't posted listening impressions, however, they tightened everything up even more. I concur w/Rob's assessment that they improve the front baffle and you can hear it in drums and bass guitar.

    I've experienced a wild ride between tweeter bezels, felts and rings this past few weeks but it's resulted in exceeding any expectations I've had. I thought things were good before all this. Shows there's still more to eek out of these old gals. FWIW, still contend the top row MW drivers don't need the felt and I have no plans to place them back in.

    @ptrooper, you're in for a treat w/all these recent improvements....your speaker purchase and timing was perfect. Almost congrats. You'll get the full on congrats when they're down under!!
    Speakers: Polk1.2tl's (Uber Mods) Pre/Amp/DAC: PS Audio BHK Signature & 250, DirectStream Cables/IC's: MIT S1Bi-Wire/S1 Balanced +Avel Lindberg 1000VA "Dreadnought" Power Conditioner: PS Audio P15 Power Plant Power Cords: Core Power Technologies Gold, DH Labs Power Plus DIY w/Neotech NC-P301 & P311ends Streamer: Roon ROCK on wifi'd NUC & Uptone EtherREGEN⟿Ω☯☥☮⟿🔊♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬
  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 24,484
    These will be internal actually, probably mount them towards the bottom

    I am interested in installing the rings! They are beefy for sure!

    Very interesting on the top MW felt, makes sense given the height
    - Not Tom

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 18,537
  • delkal
    delkal Posts: 760
    edited April 3
    I hope you are putting those in a ported speaker........If its a sealed design you will have to build a bigger box!
  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 24,484
    I dont see that it will be a problem. With all of the parts combined, it will take up about .4 cu ft, which is about 5% of the total volume (7.25 cu ft), not taking into what the stock crossover took up .04 cu ft, which puts this at .35 cu ft total of the space.

    I have mounted crossovers in the 1.2TL and SDA SRS at .2 cu ft or so with no ill effects. In fact, most of the time with the crossover improvements/cabinet/baskets, etc bass response improves tremendously.
    - Not Tom

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • Gerres26
    Gerres26 Posts: 764
    I can’t wait to see the final product
  • SeleniumFalcon
    SeleniumFalcon Posts: 319
    I'm just curious, does Duelund provide the series inductance and resistance and the dielectric absorption for that capacitor? What is the dielectric material?
  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 24,484
    they dont provide in depth measurements from what I have been able to source from them.

    They claim to use a proprietary wax paper in oil dielectric
    - Not Tom

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 24,484
    edited April 5
    They are extremely active on Facebook,
    these pics were pulled from their facebook page (none of these pics are from the CAST series, which is the big pancake looking one. The one of the flat cap in the tube is the JDM series which is the big soup can looking ones.

    91jaj0ck9g9n.jpg
    9hvhoqbqcvmq.jpg
    sq5y0g6102mu.jpg
    vtsqksnqa8bv.jpg

    - Not Tom

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • SeleniumFalcon
    SeleniumFalcon Posts: 319
    Thanks! I can't help but wonder as the capacitor gets bigger with more layers if the series inductance and resistance increases. And how it effects the voltage "memory" after discharge.
  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 24,484
    I'm going to measure them before install to verify, will post my findings
    - Not Tom

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 24,484
    So, have to give Duelund props... their caps measure darn near perfect.

    27uf -
    l0cyipkew9j5.jpg

    13.5uf -
    mic89mnxwa6n.jpg

    12uf -
    7mbskc6z78t9.jpg

    Comparison sake -

    10uf CMR (one of my favorite caps)
    lvntteojpgg4.jpg

    27uf CSA (another favorite)
    8ivdcunp4cgi.jpg




    - Not Tom

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • SeleniumFalcon
    SeleniumFalcon Posts: 319
    edited April 6
    Thank you for posting that information. Are you able to measure the dielectric absorption of the capacitors? How much of the charged voltage will return after the capacitor has been shorted and released? Also, does the fairly high dissipation factor at 10kHz effect the sound? 62.54% for the 27uF for example means at 10kHz more energy is converted to heat in the insulation/dialectric material than exits the capacitor.
    Should bypass capacitors be used in high frequency applications? This is no reflection on the superb construction and excellent sound character of these capacitors, but everything in audio is a question of balancing one factor against another.
  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 24,484
    edited April 6
    I am not able to measure that unfortunately.

    It is possible that depending on design goals and ear tuning on the larger caps you may want to bypass them with a smaller cap or use multiple smaller values to hit the target value.

    That is pretty similar to the CSA version as well, could be a relation to the value of the capacitor. If a 27uf in series with an 8 ohm woofer crosses at 700hz or so high pass which isn't normal for a high frequency circuit anyways. That value could work well in a midrange bandpass circuit depending on your goals, so 10khz ratings may be insignificant.

    As a test I'll wire up some smaller caps in parallel to see how they compare and will report back
    Post edited by VR3 on
    - Not Tom

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • SeleniumFalcon
    SeleniumFalcon Posts: 319
    I agree completely, it depends upon the circuit application. What device/system are you using for these measurements?
    This is really interesting. I love test gear!
  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 24,484
    I use a dayton dats v3, works great
    - Not Tom

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • SeleniumFalcon
    SeleniumFalcon Posts: 319
    Thanks! I'll check it out.
  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 3,309
    This is really interesting. I love test gear!

    Nerd alert!
    Cambridge Audio 851N Streamer/DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Belles 350A Reference modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    Polk SDA 1C's modded
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables


    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January.

    by Dr. Sardonicus
  • ptrooper
    ptrooper Posts: 464
    @JayCee
    Nice to hear your positive thoughts on Robs rings and bezels etc. I look forward to Vr3's upcoming pics on the monoliths xover construction and hopefully a review as they burn in.
    Exciting days ahead!
    JayCee wrote: »
    External XO?

    I see the Rob's rings. I hit my set w/black primer after cleaning them and just yesterday, finished replacing Larry's rings with them. Mad respect for Larry's but these are a different design on steroids. Haven't posted listening impressions, however, they tightened everything up even more. I concur w/Rob's assessment that they improve the front baffle and you can hear it in drums and bass guitar.

    I've experienced a wild ride between tweeter bezels, felts and rings this past few weeks but it's resulted in exceeding any expectations I've had. I thought things were good before all this. Shows there's still more to eek out of these old gals. FWIW, still contend the top row MW drivers don't need the felt and I have no plans to place them back in.

    @ptrooper, you're in for a treat w/all these recent improvements....your speaker purchase and timing was perfect. Almost congrats. You'll get the full on congrats when they're down under!!

  • WLDock
    WLDock Posts: 2,878
    edited April 12
    OMG! to those caps!
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