Anybody Speak "Classical?"

Oldwriter

Yo - good Polk Folk - "see" me on Electronics>Onks & Oinks, etc. but aside from equipment questions/comments, I'm also interested in "meeting" those of you who listento/love opera and classical music. If any, post questions, comments, etc., please. Always expanding my universe . . . Larry R

gregure

Well, you already know my feelings on the matter, but I'll get things started with a reply.
I've always been a fan of the big music, like Mahler, Tchaikovsky, R. Strauss, Wagner, Verdi, Sibelius, Berlioz and more. I like the lighter older stuff too, but not much. My tastes run back in time to Beethoven, but that's about it. Not a huge Mozart or Bach fan. The orchestra was just too small for my taste.
My favorite conductor is Herbert von Karajan, although many of his recordings are starting to become surpassed by newer recordings. His Tosca with Price will always be the only recording of that opera for me, as well as his Mahler 9th. His 1977 Beethoven 9th is also my favorite of that symphony, especially in its newly remastered edition.
I could go on for a novel's length, but of course this is just a starter. Curious to hear others' thoughts on favorites. Larry, I know you are going to see Simon Boccenegra (sp?) this summer and that sounds like a real treat. I love that opera. I have Abbado's Milan recording, really a great one.
I myself, will be attending my first concert at the new Disney Hall in L.A. The L.A. Phil will be performing the Berlioz Requiem, which will be quite something I'm sure. Hope other classical fans come forward. It would be nice to see what some other polkists think about orchestral music.

Oldwriter

Yo - Greg - yes, the Berlioz Requiem should be an auditorium-smasher, if done correctly, that is! GRIN I heard it last in Chicago with Solti and the CSY chorus. Just spine-tingling. That was before the "new" Orchestra Hall - and I'd like to read here if anybody has been in the new hall? Unnerstand it's getting mixed reviews.
Yes - Abbado comports himself very well with Simon - and I'm ordering the new DVD of the opera on TDK - from Amazon, where I get nearly all of my discs.
Have been looking about for a "new" Mahler Third - and as I'm going to purchase only SACDs from now on, I've been reading about the "best" one to get. My, how subjective is THAT? I read that Michael Tilson Thomas' San Francisco blockbuster is great sound, but SLOW! Will try to find that review again. Anybody chime in who's heard it, please.
Hope this thread brings together some folk who enjoy and appreciate classical and opera. I'm a BIG chamber music fan - and Merri (wife) and I seem to gravitate to smaller groups as we grow older (horrible thought!) the music seems to "fit" our room better, and it makes for relaxing late evening listening.
OK - hope to hear from Polk Folk "old" (pardon me, Greg) and new on this thread - and hopefully we'll keep it going a long time. Best wishes to all who read. . . Larry R

shepx2

I'm going to see Beethoven's 3rd next weekend, in Dallas. While I enjoy classical, I've never really spent the time to get involved in it. I've never been to a live performance before, so it should be fun.

gregure

Larry,
I've heard many Mahler's 3rd recordings. I haven't heard MTT's new one with the SFS, although I saw the First and Fifth live with them in SF and they were superb. I had MTT's older CBS recording with London Symphony, and it was exceptional. Can't imagine his reading has changed too much. The new Rattle recording is very good as well, very deep, rich bass. That's with the Burmingham orchestra. If you must go SACD, there is a new one out with Boulez and the Vienna Phil, although I found it to be a little lacking compared to the Rattle. The recording I've come to admire the most is Sinnoppoli's with the Philharmonia, although it's only available as part of his complete set of symphonies. It really has a very rich, detailed recording. Also, if you can find it, the Haitink/Berlin Phil recording is supposed to be excellent as well. The Boulez one is passable on SACD, the performance is just not as rich as some of the others.

Shepx2,
In regards to Beethoven's 3rd, that is a wonderful symphony. I'm sure you'll have a great time. I saw Beethoven's 3rd in Orange County with Abbado and the Berlin Philharmonic, and it was an ethereal experience. The playing was so immaculate, it was as if the music passed through you, and you weren't even there in the hall anymore. I'm not sure I'll ever hear a better performance of that symphony. For an almost the real thing experience, there is a DVD of Abbado and the BPO performing the Eroica in Rome. In DTS on Polk speakers, the experience comes mighty close to the real thing. Nothing quite matches hearing those ringing horns in the finale, or the delicate string phrases in the funeral march in a live concert though. Have fun.

Oldwriter

Yo - Shepx2 - you are about to experience one of life's most exciting, elegant hours: a live performance of a "classic." The Eroica, as Greg mentioned, will take you high and push you low, and in the end you will say: "whew! That was exhausting!" I've heard/seen this symphony performed by Chicago, Cleveland, New York Phil, and our very own Naples Philharmonic (which, by the way, is pretty darned good!). Although some folks will snort that you are attending a "warhorse" concert - ferget dem guyz!!!
Compositions are termed "warhorses" because they remain popular, and continually performed. Doesn't mean they aren't good - just "mainstream" compositions.
Welcome to my humble attempt at drawing out questions and comments from fellow Polk Folk on things classical - and operatic, for that matter. Please continue to post - you will learn, smile, and hopefully expand your horizons in this thrilling genre.
OK - looking forward to the NEXT round! Larry R

John K.

Larry, my own music listening is nearly 100% classical, and I suppose that my period preferences are quite similar to Greg's. Let me mention just a couple of CDs that are in stock now at your Borders in Naples and are especially enjoyable bargains: Smetana's Ma Vlast with Berglund and the Dresden State Orchestra on Seraphim SPH 73736; Holst's Planets with Mehta and the Los Angeles Philharmonic on Decca Eloquence ELQ 467 418. One that isn't in stock there but has some of the most beautiful singing and wordless vocalizing I've ever heard(Rachmaninoff Vocalise, Canteloube Songs of the Auvergne and others, Anna Moffo with Stokowski), which I'm sure that you'd enjoy, is on RCA 7831.

organ

I love opera and classical. www.referencerecordings.com have excellent CD's. I've purchased 'Baroque Favorites', 'Scheherazade' and 'Reveries'. 90% of their selection are HDCD.

I really enjoy opera from the 'old days' with Callas, de los Angeles, Freni, etc. My fav would be 'Madama Butterfly'. I really enjoy 'Carmen' as well. Both have excellent music.

My fav is Sarah Brightman. The most beautiful angelic soprano voice. Her recordings are wonderful. Her voice is so 'airy', it feels like she's right there in your room. Only her voice can reach my heart. Her performance of "Nessun Dorma" is so emotional it almost brings me to tears everytime I hear it. If you love classical/opera type singing, you HAVE to pick up her "Time to Say Goodbye" album which was performed with the London Symphony Orchestra. Other outstanding albums include "Eden", La Luna", "Classics", "Harem"(Not exactly classical or opera). The voice of Christine in "Phantom... was made for her voice. She has quite a bit of DVD's out. The 'La Luna' and 'Eden' concerts are amazing. Luna is in DTS with killer bass. I'm going to see her when she returns on the next tour. I plan to buy tickets super early to get front row center seating.

Maurice

Oldwriter

Yo - John K. and Maurice, AKA "organ," THANKS for the postings! Both of great value to me, and hopefully to other readers. As to Sarah Brightman - yes, a beautiful voice, but for me personally, she's great with broadway-type music, but a bit "shallow" for more "serious" work. So hit me! GRIN That's what this forum is about: trading ideas and preferences. BTW Maurice, my maternal lineage is French Canadian - NE of Quebec City, cousins still live there. "De la Roche" is the name.
To John K. - good suggestions - I'll bring home the Smetana fer shore!
As to the Songs of the Auvergne - there's only ONE CD for me on this: Kiri Te Kanawa's London CD 410004-2 - an older and not sonically great disc - but the performance! My wife and I listen to this disc at least once a week. Tear-bringer, this one!
Counting allowable letters, I'd better get off and get back to work. THANKS so much - and please keep the postings and the comments coming! This is getting better and better! Larry R

bikezappa

Shepx2

So you will be going to the Dallas symphony. I used to go to the BSO Thurday 10 series for over ten years and wanted to give you some advice listening to the music. Close your eyes during the performance. I suggest this because the music will not be like a rock concert in volume and the subtlies of the audio are better realized by concerntrating on the music.

Anyway try closing your eyes for a few minutes. The sound stage will expand and many details will emerge.

If you are tired and drink to much booze before you may nod off however.

bikezappa

This issue of Sarah B not being up to the task for opera has been around for a long time. A similar issue was with Lenny B regarding his compositions West side Story and his Mass. He copied many things, OK.

Bottom line for me only is that Lenny and Sarah give me F... goose bumps when I listen to them and it works for me.

Organ thanks for reminding me about Sarah again. I listened to your recommendations on Amazon and got those goose bumps again.

I may alos recommend Amanda McBroom, any recording. She was involved in special recordings, microphone directly to the master record with NO tape in between. She was state of the art many years ago and her recordings were part of the Absolute Sound recommended list. She doesn't do opera and is more of a cabaret singer. She wrote The Rose and recorded it many years ago. Her recording makes Bette M famious recording some what lacking in dynamic range and feeling.

Finally, if opera sounds to imposing to you the reader and you don't want to invest 3 hours of listening, yes Wanger could use some editing, rent the movie Aria. They only have only the good parts done by the past famious Fat Ladies.

Also I thank all the other posted recommendations , many look very interesting.

Oldwriter

The good thing I see happening here, great Polk Folk, is that we're getting some good/differing ideas batted around. The stuff of good conversation!
OK, I give quarter re Ms. Brightman - her voice IS stunning, and I have no quarrel with anyone who wants her in operatic roles.
As to the late Mr. Bernstein - I had the privilege a long time ago of sitting in on a discussion with The Man - and we asked him point-blank about the criticisms of his "cross-over" compositions. He blew smoke in the air (a too-heavy smoker) and quietly said that forces far above the niggling "human spikers" were in place for his compositions. By the time we spoke with him he was an old man, with enough money and prestige to say, well, you know, to the critics. I applauded him then - and now - as I love both the Mass and West Side Story.
And yes, my good friend "bikezappa" - I WILL find and rent "Aria!" All the best - Larry R

Oldwriter

To bikezappa and all who hold Ms. Brightman near and dear. She's a wunnerful "song and dance" gal - but hardly the stuff of opera! No training - transparent but shallow voice, and no language training at all. Hardly the stuff of Te Kanawa, Fleming, Von Stada, Sills, etc.
To each his/her own, of course - that's what makes this forum so valuable. My opinion is just that - my opinion. So let us sit down and try to find ways of adding to each other's enjoyment of Great Music!
BTW - I'm still trying to figure out what makes Frank Zappa anything other than an anomaly on the music scene! Sorta like Cher, so far as I'm concerned. Courage! Larry R

John K.

Larry, I'm familiar with the Te Kanawa discs and if they're a tear-bringer for you and your wife you'd better have the mop and bucket ready if you get the Moffo/Stokowski on RCA 7831. This is an even more sensuous performance of seven from the Auvergne, plus the Bachianas Brasileiras No. 5 and the best Rachmaninoff Vocalise I've ever heard. Don't hesitate to order this incredibly beautiful disc. It's in stock at Arkiv, which I've found to be reliable and Tower Records also has good service.

Oldwriter

Well, John K. - in this instance, it would seem that "older is better." Well - I'll have to see what you hear, if you know what I mean. I'll order the disc - and if it's not up to Te Kenawa standards I'll conjur up some horrible slime-disease to descend on your home! GRIN
Always - I mean ALWAYS - glad to hear different/opposing views on music, as it means something special to each individual. Well - up to a point! Thanks again - Larry R

organ

A lot of the hardcore opera fans hate Brightman. This started with her "Eden" album where her music became a mixture of classical/opera/pop. As long as I can hear her voice, I'm happy. If you're a fan you should pick up her "Dive" album which came out in 93. Sounds like Aqua without the annoying voice. When it comes to SB, it's personal preference. Some people say her voice is not powerful enough. But the thing that I love most about her voice is that she sounds so fragile and airy and only her voice can touch my soul.

Her voice is actually very powerful. The biggest difference in sound in today's opera recordings compared to the old ones is dynamic compression. They use some compression now which makes the vocals sound less powerful with a smaller dynamic range. I know that when I'm listening to old opera recordings, I have to watch the volume. It would be all nice and quiet and suddenly, the vocals get so loud, it makes me reach for the remote everytime. This is not a problem with S.B.

Her "La Luna" concert DVD (DTS) really shows what she can do with her voice.

Bikezappa,
Glad you got your goosebumps again. IMO, "Time to say Goodbye" is her most 'emotional' album and probably her best. Which album of her's do you own?

Thanks for the recommendation. I'll look for McBroom on my next visit to the music store.


To anyone else,
Have anybody seen her live? How was the show? I can't believe I missed her show in Feb. Looks like I'll have to wait until the next tour. She had the "Platinum Package" for her 'Harem' tour where your seat is on the stage(I think 80 seats per show). It also includes royal treatment from the moment you get there and a backstage pass so you can meet the goddess. If they're offering a similar thing for the next tour, I'm getting it for sure. It's my mission in life to meet her, get a pic taken with her and a CD autograph. Ticket price will kill me but I know it will be worth it.

Maurice

wrxmy02

Saw Brightman a few months ago in Alantic City Trump Arena.
At $100 for tix I did expect a nice sized orchestra..umm a few back-up vocals and the rest was canned music. Yes, It did sound canned too. I have the Eden and La luna DVD tours, Nothing like what is on those shows. Bummed..but she has lost some plumpness.

Oldwriter

Yo - I can see that I'm in a minority so far as Sara B. is concerned. And if you love a singer - go for it! My only hesitation here is that, while the lady may have a voice that strongly appeals to you, she does not have the training to go onstage in a formal operatic setting. Who knows? She might well manage light Mozart or such things as "The Merry Widow."
I happen to be a major fan of Kiri Te Kanawa, Angela Gheorghiu, and Renee Fleming - all with beautiful voices, and all with years of training.
Different voices, different backgrounds, different sounds. I love Diana Krall, too - but in her own genre, certainly not opera! GRIN
Have to take some issue with the "compression" of modern recordings - have you listened to Fleming's new "Bel Canto" disc? If so - you probably reached for the ole volume control, eh? I contend that, with digital recording, there is LESS compression, but I'm not an expert, just a listener-mope. Larry R

Willow

classical ....

Prokofiev, grieg, vivaldi, liszt, brahms, shcubert, cripes !! I can't remember the list of cd's and LP's I have of classical music. My wife is not a big fan it's along and very slow process the first time I took her to our arts centre she fell asleep. So the classical does not come out very much....For some reason I am very fond of the enchanted flute..not sure why and as I mentioned in another post les prelude by liszt still gives me the chills when I listen to it, having played 1 trombone in the Ottawa youth philharmonic I still fallow my part, I know when to come in ahhh what a feeling...

I forgot to mention anything by paganini

Oldwriter

For my fellow Polk Folk - especially those who disagree with my assessment of Sarah Brightman.
May I humbly suggest that you listen to some "lighter" music sung by established opera stars - who have voices similar to SB? I suggest these albums:
Natalie Dessay: "Vocalise."
Dawn Upshaw: "I Wish It So."
might also give Ruth Ann Swenson a go, with her "I Carry Your Heart" album.
Now compare these with Sarah Brightman and let me know if you hear major differences in tone, technique, etc.
No - I'm NOT putting down SB - if she's your taste, by all means embrace her, and buy her CDs. But we who classify ourselves as "opera lovers," cannot see SB in our genre. Any more than we consider Andrea Bocelli an "opera singer." A man with a nice, fluid voice - but any time I've heard him approaching "serious" opera arias, he pales in comparison with the "regulars." Sigh - my personal weight to carry! Courage! Larry R.

organ

Wrx,
Sorry to hear that dude. But I'm sure you got a great seat for $100. So she didn't have a live band playing with her like her previous tours? Now that would suck. Damn. I was really looking forward to the release of her 'Harem' concert DVD. She also has a live CD coming out. I hope it's a 'best of' from her live performaces.

Oldwriter,
I guess I misread your posts. Yeah, I agree that she sholdn't take on opera roles but just perform several good opera arias on her albums like she's always done. It seems like the sparkle in her voice is lost when she performs opera. I love her for her various vocal styles and prefer her "crossover" style of singing. I think she does much better concentrating on theme albums like what she's always done.

I guess the difference in our age has something to do with our preference as well. I'm guessing you grew up listening to opera? I'm 22 and have only been into classical/opera for the past few years. I normally listen to black/death/power/symphonic/operatic metal.

Now about the compression. Digital or analog, it's up to the recording engineer how much compression is used. I believe the dynamic range on a CD is 98db. All recodings released use some sort of compression. The only time I've heard music with no compression is during live shows. One hard hit on the drums could blow speaker drivers if it wasn't compressed for home audio use.

I agree, Fleming and Kanawa have great voices. I really like Maria Callas too. I see real potential for Charlotte Church when she gets older. She's still young and I don't find her vocals to sound 'mature' yet.

Ok that's enough rambling for me:)

Maurice

Oldwriter

Well, my good Canadian friend - smilin' here - yes, I'm VERY old, and I did grow up with classical music and, to a certain extent, opera. My Mother's favorite was "Turandot," and my grandmother's was "Carmen."
At age 68 - GASP! - I neither feel nor look like death warmed over, and maintain a youthful energy that slops over into my musical habits. But, unlike you, I stick pretty close to my classical and opera roots. Studied music in college, and spent some 30 years as a fine arts reporter with WGN-TV Chicago and the other Chi. Tribune stations, plus a lot of work for CNN. Now retired, so I can get in everybody else's way! GRIN
With my Canuck heritage I find that I'm a bit over-emotional now and then - as opposed to my Norwegian-German wife, who considers an "outburst" - well, something like "Very good!"
Hope you don't diss me because of my grandfatherly age bracket - heck, when I was your age all fogies over 60 should have, I thought, been dead for years!!!! G R I N Larry R

organ

No way. I'm not going to diss you because of your age. In fact, I have more intelligent conversations with older people than most people my age. I'm sure all the younger members here will agree. Glad to hear you still have your youthful energy. Music makes everyone feel better. I'd love to study music but there's just no time for that kind of stuff now. I just want to finish what I'm doing and look for a real job.

So you worked for CNN eh? Did you ever meet Rudi Bakhtiar? She's beautiful but of course SB is much better:D .

Yeah, I can get over emotional too. Not sure if it's a Canadian thing though because many of my friends are just plain cold:).

Maurice

Oldwriter

. . . try to stay warm. It's easier down here than it is up thar in Kan-ah-duh. Florrid-agh! is full of WARM! (GRIN)
sorry, never met the person you meant, but then, I retired early a dozen years ago. At 55. So take heart - you can "quit" too!!!
Classical music has always (fortunately) been a part of my life, just as "popular" music has usually been a part of most people's lifestyle. Oh, I DID havd white buck shoes, and DID go 'round with pegged pants. TRY THAT ON ON YOUR FRIENDS, AND SEE IF THEY KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT!!!!!
Just because I know and love the classics doesn't mean that I diss the younger generation(s) and whatever they're trying on for size. Innovation is the mother of future happiness - and despair. Take your pick. Sigh.
My wife is an artist/teacher. You want to know despair and angst? Hmmm. . . I just try to keep the wine-bottles full!!!!
Thanks for the post - you are wise beyond your years. And may the Happy Gods shine on you! Larry R.

gregure

In keeping with the opera theme, what do you guys think of Mirella Freni and Leontyne Price. I love these women's voices, especially Freni with Puccini. Price is the Tosca for me, I'm not a huge fan of Callas (don't shoot me). Freni's Butterfly is immaculate (the Karajan recording is supreme) and her role in Simon Boccenegra on Abbado's classic recording is balm to the ears. Price was excellent as Aida and Leonora (Il Trovatore) as well. I wish she had done more recordings, but so many are dated and not the best available now. Her Carmen was very good as well. Anyway, just curious to hear others' opinions on these fine singers. Turandot rules, thanks for bringing that up Larry. If heaven exists, I'd love to hear Puccini's finale, assuming he took the time to write it in the afterlife. Happy listening.

organ

Larry,
Thanks bud. The happy gods will continue to provide you with great opera and happiness:).

Gregure,
I also have 'Madama Butterfly' with Freni. I agree, great sound and her voice is very warm and smooth. However I prefer Callas for Butterfly. Only problem is the recording is from the 50's and it's in mono. The atmosphere is there though.

Maurice

John K.

Greg, you bring up Leontyne Price and I agree about those performances, but let me mention my actual favorite Price CD where she sings along with William Warfield and others selections from the greatest American opera, Porgy and Bess, on RCA 63312.

gregure

Yes, I agree, her contribution on the Porgy and Bess CD is excellent.

Oldwriter

Yo - good Polk Folk - a good friend and "opera fanatic" has challenged my criticism of Marcello Giordani's performance with Renee Fleming in the Met's "Il Pirata." I found it somewhat distracted or wavering - he says I'm, well, a fool. (probably correct) With that in mind, what do y'all think of some of the lesser-known or "newbie" tenors? I specifically refer to Giordani, to real-young Joseph Calleja, and to Rolando Villazon. You can access snippets of all on Amazon.com -
Any and ALL suggestions (no violence, please!) and comments welcome, as I seek to expand my opera-on-disc collection..I think Calleja is the only one with a SACD out. Thanx - Larry R

organ

Here's a question. Who would you guys say did the best job as Carmen? I have the 1968 recording with Callas, but as much as I like her voice, it just doesn't feel right for the role. So far, I'm thinking about getting the version with des Los Angeles. I have her on a compilation disc and she did a wonderful job on 'Habanera'. She sounded very flirtatious and full of energy which was perfect for the song. Another soprano I'm very impressed with on another compilation disc is Tatiana Troyanos. Very smooth voice. Sounds like she just drank a jar of honey before recording.

Maurice

TechChallenged

OldWriter

I love Heavy Metal for it power and passion. I also hear the same similarities in many classical pieces. I wish I could speak classical so I could also enjoy its rewards. It is just so damm complicated and to often seems pretentious. Maybe you can help with my most recent quest. I am looking for some music that has the same feel as the opening piece to the album Reanimation by Linkin Park.