Other Telarc 1812 Overture Moments

jdjohn

I'm talking about times when, while playing vinyl, the bass output from the speakers causes the turntable needle to jump a bit. The Telarc pressing of Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture is famous for that during the cannon fire crescendos. Okay, the Telarc 1812 thing is really about needle tracking, not strictly bass output, but hey, they're related. I had that experience tonight with another song, perhaps brought about by my new SVS SB-2000 subwoofer, and the fact that my wife wasn't home.

The moment happened while I was playing Side 4 of the 45RPM version of Dire Straits, Brothers In Arms, and specifically the track, "The Man's Too Strong". The song has a very tame intro with Mark Knopfler on solo acoustic guitar through the first 40 seconds, and then a bass guitar, a steel guitar (album cover!), and sythesizer join in. The first chorus crescendo occurs at about the 1:20 mark. After a couple of strong acoustic guitar chords, there are a few loud, deep, bass thumps. Yeah, I was playing it loud.

It was during the 2nd or 3rd chorus crescendo bass thumps where the needle jumped on me. I don't remember during which crescendo it actually occurred...I was quite shocked, and had to gather myself a bit after the needle jumped. The 2nd crescendo happens at ~2:15, the 3rd at ~3:10, and the final one at ~3:45. They are all pretty strong.

I was sitting on the other side of the room when it happened, and very surprised. I've had a (very) few footfall needle jumps in the past while standing right next to my tt stand, but again, I was on the other side of the room. My townhome is on a slab, with the downstairs having floating 'engineered' hardwood flooring. It's not glued to the slab, but it's pretty solid, especially when weighted-down with speakers and rack stands loaded with gear and vinyl records.

The kicker for me is the turntable that was being used for playback. It's a Technics SP-25 (probably ~25+lbs with the plinth), perched atop a piece of 0.5" MDF, which is then on top of a Auralex Acoustics Turntable Isolation Platform, so about 3" total of isolation between the tt and the stand. The stand is ~40lbs, before adding the tt, plus about 200 vinyl records. VTF on my Coral MC-81 cartridge was 2.0g, so not light.

Does anyone else have similar experiences with certain songs on vinyl where the needle jumped?

Clipdat

I have some records that were pressed poorly/incorrectly where the bass waves will cause the needle to skip, unrelated to the SPL in the listening room.

honestaquarian

Speaking of the 1812 overture on Telarc Vinyl!!

The standard issue on the left is hard enough to track by most turntable arm/cartridge combinations. I have a Shure V15 Type VxMR cartridge on a Technics SL1200MKII turntable tank that will play it.

HOWEVAH

Just you look closely at the UHQR version. You can literally SEE 👀 where the canons go off because the grooves had to be spaced much further apart than usual to keep them from running onto each other. If you look very closely at the grooves where the canon shots are you can also see where the initial “crack” of the cannon shot begins. As there is a nearly 90 degree angle shift in the groove, which almost looks like what a needle does on a seismometer while tracking earthquakes!! My needle jumps off of the record every time in this version. The initial “crack” of the canons begins in the two to three kilohertz range and then goes all of the way down to FIVE HERTZ!!

mhardy6647

Legendarily hard to track.

gp4jesus

I have the title on the left on vinyl & CD plus a few other demanding Telarc releases on vinyl and CD. IIRC one can see those cannon shot details w/the naked eye though obviously less pronounced on the “plain Jane” release.

Unaware of the UHQR until today - that must be INCREDIBLE!

honestaquarian

gp4jesus wrote: »

I have the title on the left on vinyl & CD plus a few other demanding Telarc releases on vinyl and CD. IIRC one can see those cannon shot details w/the naked eye though obviously less pronounced on the “plain Jane” release.

Unaware of the UHQR until today - that must be INCREDIBLE!

Yes it is and it has an even stronger warning than the "regular version" because it has even more energy they say!

soundfreak1

Last time I played my copy I had 2 neighbors at my door asking if everything was alright as they heard several gun shots! Had to demo as they didn't believe my story about " it's just my stereo" . They just shook their heads and left talking to themselves.

soundfreak1

I did have it turned up a bit!

soundfreak1

For the record (no pun intended) I buy any Telarc recording or CD even if I dont like the music. The recording level they have attained is majic.

honestaquarian

soundfreak1 wrote: »

For the record (no pun intended) I buy any Telarc recording or CD even if I dont like the music. The recording level they have attained is majic.

NOT JUST the level!
Telarc achieved the much sought after, but rarely achieved in the classical recording world ability to combine good performances with excellent sound quality.
They did it on the regular, which caused a lot of major labels to step up thier game. Even some of the independents as well.
Does anyone remember the challenge that Teldec once issued to Telarc to have a bass(tympani)drum recording battle?

muncybob

I also have the V15 V cart and have yet to find something it can't track accurately. Don't have any Telarc recordings though but, would love to hear their 1812.

gp4jesus

muncybob wrote: »

I also have the V15 V cart and have yet to find something it can't track accurately. Don't have any Telarc recordings though but, would love to hear their 1812.

I strongly recommend a “scrimmage level” TT tracking/amp/speaker exercise first.

https://www.discogs.com/Brad-Miller-The-Power-And-The-Majesty/release/1980525

I’ve had this LP since before the advent of CDs. SQ is on par w/most any HQ recording. Just bit less demanding dynamic range in the lower octaves compared to the lessor “1812.”

It’s a good “test” to learn what your TT can track AND amp/speakers can handle before you take on the 1812 regardless of pressing. Before you play, read the sleeve notes. Take it slow w/the 1st and 2nd playings.

My father grew up w/in earshot of a train. Anytime I played it for him was gift. He especially enjoyed the genuine low-level stuff (people talking, dog barking) at the beginning of the first track.

This comes before the VERY LOUD whistle blast that WILL test your mids & tweets! About a minute later you should also experience a mild percussion from the wheels as they pass over where two rail endings come together.

And who doesn’t like a thunderstorm?! This is a well recorded, mids & woofer-challenging track that, over good system, will make you believe you’re outside on a covered porch almost getting splashed by the rain hitting the railing.

Eager for your review!

Enjoy! Merry Christmas 🎁 Tony

spongebobsquarepants

Reading this thread led me to this mofi timeline article, which i enjoyed reading and figured I'd share.

https://www.mofi.com/Articles.asp?ID=255

honestaquarian

muncybob wrote: »

I also have the V15 V cart and have yet to find something it can't track accurately. Don't have any Telarc recordings though but, would love to hear their 1812.

@muncybob Hang around any used record store in the classical section. Sooner or later a copy will make it’s way to the bins.
OR eBay!

doctor r

@muncybob Hang around any used record store in the classical section. Sooner or later a copy will make it’s way to the bins.
OR eBay!

I agree. This album is sold or traded once most people realize their cartridge will not stay in the grooves during the cannon shots. There was a reissue done in 2018 that may not be quite as “dynamic” as the original. When Telarc decided in 1978 to digitally record the cannon sound effects they used actual cannons that resided in Berea OH on the campus of Baldwin Wallace College. My fathers’ s office was a couple of blocks away and he remembers actual windows breaking in some buildings when the cannon were fired.

soundfreak1

I use an Audio Technica Oc9ML LOMC on my Denon DP1200 table and never had any tracking issues.

invalid

My favorite telarc recording is time warp, it has excellent dynamic range.

gp4jesus

invalid wrote: »

My favorite telarc recording is time warp, it has excellent dynamic range.

Killer CD. I have few others from that series.

Either vinyl or the CDs make great scrimmage level programming to test a system. None quite compare to the 1812 Overture’s cannon blasts but...

honestaquarian

invalid wrote: »

My favorite telarc recording is time warp, it has excellent dynamic range.

Time Warp was one of the first CD’s💿 I ever bought back in 1986 when I got my first CD 💿 player. Still have it.
The 1812 overture was a landmark recording for Telarc twice twenty years apart. They digitally recorded the orchestra, cannons and carillons. The catch is that back then no digital mixing program existed, so they had to invent one! Twenty years later in 1998 when they recorded the 1812 overture again in DSD. There was no multichannel authoring hardware that yet existed. So they had to wait for that to be invented. That recording was one of only two that Telarc released on both SACD and DVD-A. I have both the SACD and DVD-A 📀

honestaquarian

Come to think of it I also managed to find Time Warp on LP and Cassette much later!
I remember buying the CD 💿 because it had a lot of Star Trek and Star Wars music as well as a warning on the label which said it contained some of the strongest program material ever recorded!
Both the LP and Cassette sound excellent. However the tape does sound like there was some compression used (something that Telarc DID NOT like to use)Maybe it’s the medium.

invalid

I don't own the 1812 overture but I listened to it on tidal it didn't seem to have the dynamics like time warp does. I have time warp on cd so not a fair comparison.

honestaquarian

invalid wrote: »

I don't own the 1812 overture but I listened to it on tidal it didn't seem to have the dynamics like time warp does. I have time warp on cd so not a fair comparison.

@invalid if this is the version you listened to on Tidal 👇🏾You are right.


It sounds peak limited compared to these 👇🏾


While it IS full CD 💿 resolution, it isn’t anywhere near the resolution of even the DVD-A 📀
The SACD is even higher resolution.
I couldn’t find Time Warp on Tidal. That is CD 💿 resolution as it was recorded long before Telarc switched to DSD for their recordings.

honestaquarian

Ironically the LP version of Time Warp was pressed by Teldec using their DMM (Direct Metal Mastering) process. The LP of The Rite of Spring has some hard kettle drums that will send your needle flying.

honestaquarian

This is some classic electronic/house music from the early 90’s that will also challenge your system. This IS NOT the boy band group of the same name that came out years later.

I bet Trey @VR3 would be in his glory listening to the LFO 12" single with his in the floor subwoofers.

honestaquarian

invalid

That is the version that tidal has, I can't find time warp on any streaming service.

CH46E

I heard through the grape vine that someone smoked a pair of Carver Platinum Amazings with the 1812 Overture at a Polk Fest several years back. Anyone there for that shebang???

TroyD

It was the William Tell Overture from the Telarc disc Roundup.

It was GLORIOUS!

In all fairness, I still believe that ribbon was going to give up the ghost sooner or later. I just sped it along. BTW, Those are the speakers I’m holding for you A true piece of PF lore and legend.

gp4jesus

I have “Round Up” on vinyl - one their best for recording & SQ! The music paints beautiful pictures

gp4jesus

honestaquarian wrote: »

Ironically the LP version of Time Warp was pressed by Teldec using their DMM (Direct Metal Mastering) process. The LP of The Rite of Spring has some hard kettle drums that will send your needle flying.

I have the LP “The Rite of Spring.”

Love it. After I resurrect my TT I’ll shop for some on these on vinyl.

gp4jesus

To “1812 Overture” lovers of all varieties,

Have you replayed those “groove jumping” tracks at lower volume? This determines if it’s your sub “kickin’ the arm” or your TT/arm/cart combo isn’t up to the task. Your TT/arm/cartridge combo resonance characteristics is such that is “on the edge*” and, at higher volumes those transits, pressurizing the room, push it over the edge.

To the best of my recollection from so many years ago... At the Zenith of my system’s TT/frequency response capabilities, I recall no tracking issues at near-concert levels for R&R. The more demanding classical programming, I’d “enjoy” at more cautious level.

At that time*, I used a Rega Planar 3/RB 300 arm combo* w/the best** of all the cartridges I’ve ever owned on a solid platform. Further I had a bullet proof bottom end anchored by a PAIR of Titan subs (sealed isobaric) - known by their fans as “one is more than a enough!” F3 is 22hz w/no EQ; 17hz w/a little EQ. Unfortunately, the ozone creature ate the surrounds years before the heyday of reconditioning kits and the Internet.
*still have but no cartridge. Waiting on the herd to thin - one too heavy footed for safety’s sake.
** better carts have since come out.