Phono cable: definitely a difference maker
![Joey_V](https://us.v-cdn.net/5021930/uploads/userpics/889/nVKI5TTNXCT8O.jpeg)
Joey_V
Posts: 8,543
So I was testing two cables, wireworld gold and a generic. My friend loaned me his WW that he uses with his VPI Direct drive. I figured that if his table is better than mine that he would have good taste in phono cables.
It’s impressive to hear what a good cable does. You would figure that the first cable off the tonearm (after DIN) would be important and you would be right.
It improved the bass, improved the treble, removed hash and centered the image vertically. It gave that X factor, the feel of almost like a phantasm singing.
I probably went back and forth 10x, but in the end, I would say the differences are worth it. Without the cable, the avenger is reduced to sounding.... digital.![14em5jzmlp8j.jpeg](https://us.v-cdn.net/5021930/uploads/editor/85/14em5jzmlp8j.jpeg)
![cuxa9xtm671f.jpeg](https://us.v-cdn.net/5021930/uploads/editor/ky/cuxa9xtm671f.jpeg)
It’s impressive to hear what a good cable does. You would figure that the first cable off the tonearm (after DIN) would be important and you would be right.
It improved the bass, improved the treble, removed hash and centered the image vertically. It gave that X factor, the feel of almost like a phantasm singing.
I probably went back and forth 10x, but in the end, I would say the differences are worth it. Without the cable, the avenger is reduced to sounding.... digital.
![14em5jzmlp8j.jpeg](https://us.v-cdn.net/5021930/uploads/editor/85/14em5jzmlp8j.jpeg)
![cuxa9xtm671f.jpeg](https://us.v-cdn.net/5021930/uploads/editor/ky/cuxa9xtm671f.jpeg)
Magico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound
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Not a surprise. I have also tested a couple of cables from phono pre to pre. Not surprising they both had significant performance gains. I found that using like cables from manufacture throughout the chain provided the best results.2 Channel Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II, 2 REL Carbon Limited, Norma Revo IPA-140B, Lumin U2 Mini, VPI Prime w/SoundSmith Zephyr MIMC, Modwright PH 150, Denon DP-59l w/Denon DL-301MKII, WAY Silver 3 Ana+ Speaker Cables, WAY Silver 4+ Interconnect Cables, AudioQuest Niagara 7000 w/Dragon and Hurricane Power Cables
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Not a surprise. I have also tested a couple of cables from phono pre to pre. Not surprising they both had significant performance gains. I found that using like cables from manufacture throughout the chain provided the best results.
What cables do you useMagico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound -
Yeah, the delicate signal of a phono cartridge needs good shielding and low capacitance."This may not matter to you, but it does to me for various reasons, many of them illogical or irrational, but the vinyl hobby is not really logical or rational..." - member on Vinyl Engine
"Sometimes I do what I want to do. The rest of the time, I do what I have to." - Cicero, in Gladiator
Regarding collectibles: "It's not who gets it. It's who gets stuck with it." - Jimmy Fallon -
Yeah, the delicate signal of a phono cartridge needs good shielding and low capacitance.
I agreeMagico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound -
My next question is can a regular rca be used in a vpi set up or do I really need to look for a phono din cable and then go through the trouble of reterminating?Magico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound
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Furutech. Same as in my complete system.2 Channel Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II, 2 REL Carbon Limited, Norma Revo IPA-140B, Lumin U2 Mini, VPI Prime w/SoundSmith Zephyr MIMC, Modwright PH 150, Denon DP-59l w/Denon DL-301MKII, WAY Silver 3 Ana+ Speaker Cables, WAY Silver 4+ Interconnect Cables, AudioQuest Niagara 7000 w/Dragon and Hurricane Power Cables -
My next question is can a regular rca be used in a vpi set up or do I really need to look for a phono din cable and then go through the trouble of reterminating?
I'm pretty sure you can use any RCA + ground wire for the output on your current set up. The ground wire also doesn't need to be integrated into the jacket of the cable, some prefer that it isn't for flexibility. You should consider that because the phono signal is so low, using the same cables you have throughout your system may or may not be a good match between your TT and phonostage. Really any RCA will functionally work, but that perfect synergy could exist with a mix and match, in theory of course.
That junction box can also be upgraded. VPI has options to use a balanced output, and options with RCA or Balanced outputs with Nordost cable.
https://elusivedisc.com/search?search_query=vpi+junction+
If I'm not mistaken, the junction box can also be disassembled and you can run a direct Din to RCA or Din to balanced cable to remove multiple connection points in the chain.
Analog: MoFi MasterTracker > MoFi UltraDeck > Sutherland 20/20
Digital: Cambridge CXC / Streaming > Cambridge CXN v2
MastersounD Dueventi > Rosso Fiorentino Certaldo or Arcam rHead > Hifiman HE4XX
Discogs -
Furutech. Same as in my complete system.
Although they are the same make they are not the same cable. This is what I enjoy about working with Doug and Furutech. We can selected the cable needed, by specification, and then select terminators. Creating the cables in a custom way.
2 Channel Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II, 2 REL Carbon Limited, Norma Revo IPA-140B, Lumin U2 Mini, VPI Prime w/SoundSmith Zephyr MIMC, Modwright PH 150, Denon DP-59l w/Denon DL-301MKII, WAY Silver 3 Ana+ Speaker Cables, WAY Silver 4+ Interconnect Cables, AudioQuest Niagara 7000 w/Dragon and Hurricane Power Cables -
displayname wrote: »That junction box can also be upgraded. VPI has options to use a balanced output, and options with RCA or Balanced outputs with Nordost cable.
I disabled signatures. -
displayname wrote: »That junction box can also be upgraded. VPI has options to use a balanced output, and options with RCA or Balanced outputs with Nordost cable.
This is technically all speculation because I haven't done it myself, but looking at this image...
And then read this description I found on AudiogonThe box is a bit tricky. It doesn't look like it does this, but the metal is actually U-shapped. You can get this off by removing the 2 chrome Phillips head screws. The whole box does not get removed...only the U-shaped metal that contains the jacks which goes around the top and then down in front. Remove this piece of metal with a screw driver...just pry it up in the back, and slide it off of the top. You don't have to take the piece off that says VPI. Take the similar piece off of the new box - I suppose it now has the XLR connections on it, and simply slide it on to the existing connected piece of box that is already installed on the table. Replace those 2 chrome-like Phillips head screws (unless you are going to use the anti-skate device) and you're in business.
So it sounds like the base of the junction box remains firmly secured to the arm board when you make this mod.
But your comment about the "could be a bit of a disaster if the cable were yanked" is 100% true. I think for most people running this type of table though, they know that it shouldn't be anywhere that it could get yanked. We're well past the point of casual listening in this price point. These are fine luxury products, and no yanking or other ruckus should be taking place in their vicinity, lol.
There are actually a few TTs that run solid direct cables. Rega is the big one that comes to mind. The signal from the cartridge is the lowest voltage signal you'll work with in your entire analog system, so anywhere you can remove a junction, solder point, material change, etc, should be advantageous... in theory.Analog: MoFi MasterTracker > MoFi UltraDeck > Sutherland 20/20
Digital: Cambridge CXC / Streaming > Cambridge CXN v2
MastersounD Dueventi > Rosso Fiorentino Certaldo or Arcam rHead > Hifiman HE4XX
Discogs -
Here's some pics that have the box open with the top and bottom of the box included. Should help make it easier to visualize.
Analog: MoFi MasterTracker > MoFi UltraDeck > Sutherland 20/20
Digital: Cambridge CXC / Streaming > Cambridge CXN v2
MastersounD Dueventi > Rosso Fiorentino Certaldo or Arcam rHead > Hifiman HE4XX
Discogs -
I went down a junction box rabbit hole this morning after seeing this. One thing I saw for mounting was plain old Velcro. Also saw at least one platform that looked specific to VPI tables, making a ledge of sorts off the back on which to mount the box.
There are all kinds of boxes out there for the DIYer, so, one could build a box as desired, with particular wiring, solder, and connectors. I thought about doing this a while back with a captive cables conversion on the SL-1200, but decided to just leave it alone. I didn't realize at the time that there were many prefab boxes out there, some with cables built-in.I disabled signatures. -
Without the cable, the avenger is reduced to sounding.... digital.
Joey- are you really moving away from your digital set up? Sounds like TT is making you sway more on true analog side than the so called digital to analog side
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"This may not matter to you, but it does to me for various reasons, many of them illogical or irrational, but the vinyl hobby is not really logical or rational..." - member on Vinyl Engine
"Sometimes I do what I want to do. The rest of the time, I do what I have to." - Cicero, in Gladiator
Regarding collectibles: "It's not who gets it. It's who gets stuck with it." - Jimmy Fallon