please recommend a new cartridge for my Thorens tt

pglbook

I am looking for recommendations for a new cartridge for my Thorens TD-160 tt.
My upper budget would be $300.

I have always used a Shure M97xe cartridge but it died on me last night. I really like that one but it has been discontinued. There are a couple of NOS listed on eBay but they are listed for around $300, which I think is too much for that particular cartridge, although it is a very good cartridge.

I'd like to know what cartridge would be an upgrade over the Shure M97xe cartridge in the $300 price range and that would be a good match for my Thorens TD-160.

Thanks.

Emlyn

Ever heard a Denon DL-110?

I bought both the Shure and Denon about ten years ago for a Technics turntable because they were both inexpensive. I think the Shure cartridge was about $55 back then.

jdjohn

Wow! Prices for M97xe have gone crazy!

Is your cartridge (coils) dead, or do you just need a new stylus? The Jico SAS replacement stylus for that cartridge has a LOT of fans.

sgtmick63

Ortofon Blue

mhardy6647

What Grado will $300 get you? I'd give serious consideration to that route (i.e., were I you).

Now... having said that, I am going to give the worst possible advice (and the least welcome possible advice)... stretch to $500 and pick up a HANA EH (or EL if you have enough gain to accommodate an LOMC or if you want to spring for a SUT or a "head amp", too). I am not 100.000% sure that the compliance of the HANA MC cartridges are high enough to be happy in the TD-160's arm, but they're likely a better choice than the Denon MCs, compliance-wise.

FWIW, I'd avoid any Ortofon or Audio-Technica cartridge that you can afford.
Just my opinion, of course, but one I hold firmly. The Ortofons I like... I like a lot, but I'd have to sell a kidney... and I just plain don't care for the A-T "sound".

PS The TD-160 is/was and will probably always be a nice tt.

mhardy6647

jdjohn wrote: »

Wow! Prices for M97xe have gone crazy!

Is your cartridge (coils) dead, or do you just need a new stylus? The Jico SAS replacement stylus for that cartridge has a LOT of fans.

Sorry to go on and on (me?!?) but... per @jdjohn's query -- are you sure it's the cartridge? They can die -- and I have read (i.e., anecdotally) that the M97xe has some reputation for failing... but it is (IME) danged uncommon. What is/are the symptom(s)? If the issue is no output (one or both channels) are you sure it's not either the tt's cueing mute switch (I think/assume that this Thorens has one... although I am not 100% sure) or the, umm, interconnects. EDIT: or the cnnections to the cartridge and/o the wiring in the tonearm

PS I just took a quick look at TD-160 docs from vinylengine; I don't see that it does have a muting microswitch for the cueing... so that suggestion in my paragraph above may be out in space.

pglbook

jdjohn wrote: »

Wow! Prices for M97xe have gone crazy!

Is your cartridge (coils) dead, or do you just need a new stylus? The Jico SAS replacement stylus for that cartridge has a LOT of fans.

It did not actually die but was having some issues and I stupidly ended up breaking the wires trying to fix it yesterday.

Recently I had low sound from one speaker when playing a record. I figured it was a loose cartridge wire and took the cartridge off of the tonearm and removed one end of each of the 4 little wires of the cartridge and reconnected them. That solved the problem for a while. However, I then began to get some feedback noise when I moved the tonearm to turn a record over after one side had stopped playing. So I again removed and reconnected the 4 little wires and problem solved again. Or so I thought so. Yesterday I went to play a record and there was low volume from one speaker again. So I did the remove/reconnect wire trick another time and all was good for 1 or 2 records. The volume was fine in both speakers. But, soon afterwards, another problem surfaced when I played a 3rd record; there was a hum or buzzzing sound after that record had finished. So I decided to remove the cartridge and this time remove BOTH ends of each wire and reconnect them. But I ended up breaking 2 of the wires off. So I now have a cartridge with no wires (I tossed the 4 little wires because they are shot due to my DIY fiasco). So it is time to get a new cartridge. The cartridge was about 6 or 7 years old. It is a great cartridge and cost $100 or less when new, iirc. It was the best bang for the back in the cartridge world. But Shure discontinued it a year or two ago and it can only now be found on secondary sites like eBay and sellers are asking about 3x the original price for NOS.

jdjohn

Well, you're going to need new lead wires either way, so perhaps you could try new wires, and THEN consider a new cartridge.

I suspect though, based on your other symptoms, your problem is actually where the headshell plugs into the tonearm. The female part of that connection - in the end of the tonearm - is prone to issues, causing channel loss and/or hum. And the more times you remove and reinstall the headshell, the more unstable it becomes. Ask me how I know

The real problem is at the rear of the female connector, inside the tonearm, where the tonearm wires are attached to the clips. Once you get new lead wires, you might be able to determine for sure what/where the culprit is, but I doubt it is the cartridge.

You can test the coils of the cartridge with a multi-meter. @mhardy6647 is right about occasional QC issues with those cartridges - especially the Mexican-made units - but those issues were pretty apparent right out of the box.

pglbook

jdjohn wrote: »

Well, you're going to need new lead wires either way, so perhaps you could try new wires, and THEN consider a new cartridge.

I suspect though, based on your other symptoms, your problem is actually where the headshell plugs into the tonearm. The female part of that connection - in the end of the tonearm - is prone to issues, causing channel loss and/or hum. And the more times you remove and reinstall the headshell, the more unstable it becomes. Ask me how I know

The real problem is at the rear of the female connector, inside the tonearm, where the tonearm wires are attached to the clips. Once you get new lead wires, you might be able to determine for sure what/where the culprit is, but I doubt it is the cartridge.

You can test the coils of the cartridge with a multi-meter. @mhardy6647 is right about occasional QC issues with those cartridges - especially the Mexican-made units - but those issues were pretty apparent right out of the box.

Thanks, jdhohn.

I did not know I could get new cartridge wires. Where can I get them from?

If the the issue is in the tonearm, then it is probably best for me to take it to a stereo tech and have it looked at, correct?

There is a vintage stereo repair shop nearby. I had them install my cartridge and set up my tt when I first bought my tt about 6 or 7 years ago. I am also am friendly with one of the employees of the local used record shop and he knows a fellow who fixes turntables (a regular who the shop recommends to customers inquiring about tt repair). So I can take it to one one of them and have it looked at.

That is good news if the cartridge may still be good..and if I can get new wires for it. Although not good news about the tonearam.

Thanks for the help...much appreciated.

maxward

I’m not sure if I read your post correctly, so I apologize if this is way off-base. Unless the wires are a permanent part of the cartridge, you can buy replacement headshell wires and the cartridge might be fine. As a TD-160 owner, I have experienced problems similar to what you described. Clean (deoxidize) your pins on the headshell and on the rear of the cartridge regularly. Make sure the tabs on the wires grip the pins well, too. I also once had a wire which went bad internally, which stumped me for a while until I bought some new ones.

maxward

A little late to the party, as usual^.

pglbook

maxward wrote: »

I’m not sure if I read your post correctly, so I apologize if this is way off-base. Unless the wires are a permanent part of the cartridge, you can buy replacement headshell wires and the cartridge might be fine. As a TD-160 owner, I have experienced problems similar to what you described. Clean (deoxidize) your pins on the headshell and on the rear of the cartridge regularly. Make sure the tabs on the wires grip the pins well, too. I also once had a wire which went bad internally, which stumped me for a while until I bought some new ones.

Thanks I did not know I could get replacement wires until seeing jdjohn's post.

Where can I buy replacement wires? Also, do I need a specific wire type or size or are all replacement wires the same? In other words, do I need to buy replacement wires specific to the Shure M97xe or can I buy any generic replacement wires?

maxward

Jdjohn could be right about the female connection at the tonearm, but I’ve not experienced this...yet, and my Thorens was bought in 1973. Also, that’s another place to keep clean.

pglbook

maxward wrote: »

Jdjohn could be right about the female connection at the tonearm, but I’ve not experienced this...yet, and my Thorens was bought in 1973. Also, that’s another place to keep clean.

Good tip about cleaning pins and tonarm connection point.

What do you use to clean the pins?

jdjohn

Headshell/cartridge lead wires are generic and universal. eBay, Amazon, etc. It's worth it to buy some with higher-quality clips, so they don't break as easily.

You can actually a rubber eraser to remove corrosion from cartridge pins.

EDIT: Of course if you're frugal, and handy with a soldering iron, you can just buy new clips, and reuse the wires.

pglbook

jdjohn wrote: »

Headshell/cartridge lead wires are generic and universal. eBay, Amazon, etc. It's worth it to buy some with higher-quality clips, so they don't break as easily.

You can actually a rubber eraser to remove corrosion from cartridge pins.

EDIT: Of course if you're frugal, and handy with a soldering iron, you can just buy new clips, and reuse the wires.

Thanks again. I checked on Amazon and found some replacement wires. I will now have to compare reviews to see which may be better quality wires.

Also, no more DIY for me. I am definitely not the DIY type (my wife likes to tell people that I can't even change a lightbulb. But that is not true. I can change a lightbulb, but that is about all I can do, ha).

maxward

Yep, I’ve used pencil erasers and Deoxit. I have a decades-old bottle of Tweek, a contact “enhancer” that I brush on freshly cleaned pins and plugs. Not sure if it’s still available, but I’m sure similar products are. Good luck and I hope your cartridge is in working order.

jdjohn

pglbook wrote: »

If the the issue is in the tonearm, then it is probably best for me to take it to a stereo tech and have it looked at, correct?

There is a vintage stereo repair shop nearby. I had them install my cartridge and set up my tt when I first bought my tt about 6 or 7 years ago. I am also am friendly with one of the employees of the local used record shop and he knows a fellow who fixes turntables (a regular who the shop recommends to customers inquiring about tt repair). So I can take it to one one of them and have it looked at.

That is good news if the cartridge may still be good..and if I can get new wires for it. Although not good news about the tonearam.

Thanks for the help...much appreciated.

No problem, and happy to help. I would probably vote for the record shop guy if it comes to that. He'd likely be cheaper, and it sounds like he specializes in turntables, which means he must really love working on them as a hobby. And trust me, it becomes a labor of love (and not money) along the way. The stereo shop will charge by the hour, and it adds up quickly.

Here's a thread from VinylEngine with info and pics: https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=17620 Frankly, and in retrospect, it's better to just rewire the entire arm directly for the full length, and bypass that troublesome connector.

mhardy6647

FWIW -- I like to use a pair of mosquito foreceps (hemostats) to attach (and un-attach ) the cartridge leads.

Not only can you get replacement headshell leads -- you can get boutique headshell leads.

dromunds

I may have an extra stylus for a m97xe. I gave my cartridge to Micah a couple years ago but I think I had at least one stylus around here but I’ll have to look - if youre interested that is. If I have one I’ll give it to you for shipping. I have a Thorens 160 in the closet and I have a Goldring 1012GX on it which sounded really nice

msg

Probably need to strap that bad boy to a pallette and ship via freight service with loading dock at destination.

dromunds

Pglbook: I have two N97XE styluses - one I think is new that was a backup and the other is a used low hour stylus. PM me if interested.

txcoastal1

mhardy6647 wrote: »

FWIW -- I like to use a pair of mosquito foreceps (hemostats) to attach (and un-attach ) the cartridge leads.

Doc, it's OK to say roach clips

dromunds

Pglbook: I also replied in your wanted ad that I will give you my two styluses for that cartridge. In my experience the cartridge itself rarely fails. The stylus simply slides into the front of the cartridge body. Don

pglbook

dromunds wrote: »

Pglbook: I also replied in your wanted ad that I will give you my two styluses for that cartridge. In my experience the cartridge itself rarely fails. The stylus simply slides into the front of the cartridge body. Don

Thanks, dromunds. I appreciate the offer. I think the stylus on my M97xe is ok but it would be great to have a backup stylus. I'll send you a pm.

mhardy6647

txcoastal1 wrote: »

mhardy6647 wrote: »

FWIW -- I like to use a pair of mosquito foreceps (hemostats) to attach (and un-attach ) the cartridge leads.

Doc, it's OK to say roach clips

That's right, I forgot that reefer madness has gone the way of the Old Washington Football Team's name

pglbook

maxward wrote: »

Yep, I’ve used pencil erasers and Deoxit. I have a decades-old bottle of Tweek, a contact “enhancer” that I brush on freshly cleaned pins and plugs. Not sure if it’s still available, but I’m sure similar products are. Good luck and I hope your cartridge is in working order.

I noticed that there are various types of deoxit. Is one version of deoxit better than another to clean the pins or are they all just about the same?

I ordered replacement wires and will now buy some deoxit in order to clean the pins prior to puttting on the replacement wires.

Thanks again.

pitdogg2

Regular red deoxit has more cleaning power. Deoxit gold is more for gold stuff that does not tarnish as badly.

pglbook

pitdogg2 wrote: »

Regular red deoxit has more cleaning power. Deoxit gold is more for gold stuff that does not tarnish as badly.

Thank you!

mhardy6647

The "red" DeOxit D5 can damage the carbon film plastic guts of some pots, and will often/usually dissolve out the lubricant (and thus that sexy, smooth "feel") of a pot, so it's not a one-size-fits-all solution for dirty controls -- although, make no mistake, it is an excellent product.

DeOxit "FaderLube" (now called Fader F5, I think) can restore the feel and is generally considered to be the better choice (as I understand it) for pots with plastic innards.

For better & for worse, and FWIW, I have yet to destroy the function of a pot (or switch) with D5... but I certainly have left some pots feeling scrunchy after cleaning with D5. I subsequently did indeed buy a can of the Fader F5.

pglbook

mhardy6647 wrote: »

The "red" DeOxit D5 can damage the carbon film plastic guts of some pots, and will often/usually dissolve out the lubricant (and thus that sexy, smooth "feel") of a pot, so it's not a one-size-fits-all solution for dirty controls -- although, make no mistake, it is an excellent product.

DeOxit "FaderLube" (now called Fader F5, I think) can restore the feel and is generally considered to be the better choice (as I understand it) for pots with plastic innards.

For better & for worse, and FWIW, I have yet to destroy the function of a pot (or switch) with D5... but I certainly have left some pots feeling scrunchy after cleaning with D5. I subsequently did indeed buy a can of the Fader F5.

Thanks for the info.

I went ahead and ordered the red deoxit that pitdogg recommended. Pricey stuff, but necessary and a great product. I have used deoxit spray in the past to clean dirty pots of old receivers but ordered deoxit liquid (D100L) this time to be able to clean the cartridge pins with a brush.