SDA-2B TL mod resistors and caps, can't decide
scubiesteve
Posts: 25
So I only want to open these speakers up once, my plan is to replace the tweeters with the 198's , replace the mids with new ones from Midwest speaker, hurricane nuts, gimpod boards, and caps and resistors.......
There's so many choices and it can get expensive quick, I really want to do clarity caps and duelund resistors but how much better is it over sonicaps and mills. There has to be a point when one reaches diminishing returns........
There's so many choices and it can get expensive quick, I really want to do clarity caps and duelund resistors but how much better is it over sonicaps and mills. There has to be a point when one reaches diminishing returns........
Comments
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The answer no one can answer correctly. Good luck on your journey...Gustard X26 Pro DAC
Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)
There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus -
Sonicap and mills, done.The best way to predict the future is to invent it.
It is imperative that we recognize that an opinion is not a fact. -
Do NOT replace the original drivers.
Clarity makes many different models, so which are you considering?
Duelund if you like the "hifi" sound. Mills if you like musical.
Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Jesse, what do you mean by hifi sound? Is hifi more accurate and musical more flavored?
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Hifi is artificial, musical is natural.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Do NOT replace the original drivers.
Clarity makes many different models, so which are you considering?
Duelund if you like the "hifi" sound. Mills if you like musical.
I have a pop that is loud during heavy bass sequences, can't tell if its the tweeter or driver but I figured I'd get replacement drivers from Midwest to make the speakers completely new
Also it would between the Clarity ESA caps and sonicaps -
The ones Midwest sells are a one type fits all, which is impossible.
The popping could be any number of reasons such as a air leak or a detached spider. If it's an air leak new drivers sure as hell won't fix it, so you need look into that. If it's not an air leak you'll have to pull each driver to check the spider. I guarantee it's not a tweeter.
Clarity stopped making the ESA, it's been replaced with the CSA. Clarity or Sonicap are pretty close, pick one.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
The ones Midwest sells are a one type fits all, which is impossible.
The popping could be any number of reasons such as a air leak or a detached spider. If it's an air leak new drivers sure as hell won't fix it, so you need look into that. If it's not an air leak you'll have to pull each driver to check the spider. I guarantee it's not a tweeter.
Clarity stopped making the ESA, it's been replaced with the CSA. Clarity or Sonicap are pretty close, pick one.
I'm 99% percent sure it's not an air leak as it doesn't happen when listening to music, only high intensity movie scenes.
Maybe I'll start with getting the drivers reconed. Wouldn't hurt.
Guess I'll go with sonicap and duelund resistors
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scubiesteve wrote: »The ones Midwest sells are a one type fits all, which is impossible.
The popping could be any number of reasons such as a air leak or a detached spider. If it's an air leak new drivers sure as hell won't fix it, so you need look into that. If it's not an air leak you'll have to pull each driver to check the spider. I guarantee it's not a tweeter.
Clarity stopped making the ESA, it's been replaced with the CSA. Clarity or Sonicap are pretty close, pick one.
I'm 99% percent sure it's not an air leak as it doesn't happen when listening to music, only high intensity movie scenes.
Maybe I'll start with getting the drivers reconed. Wouldn't hurt.
Guess I'll go with sonicap and duelund resistors
What are you using for an Amp? Sounds like you're clipping one of the speakers.
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Mike Reeter wrote: »scubiesteve wrote: »The ones Midwest sells are a one type fits all, which is impossible.
The popping could be any number of reasons such as a air leak or a detached spider. If it's an air leak new drivers sure as hell won't fix it, so you need look into that. If it's not an air leak you'll have to pull each driver to check the spider. I guarantee it's not a tweeter.
Clarity stopped making the ESA, it's been replaced with the CSA. Clarity or Sonicap are pretty close, pick one.
I'm 99% percent sure it's not an air leak as it doesn't happen when listening to music, only high intensity movie scenes.
Maybe I'll start with getting the drivers reconed. Wouldn't hurt.
Guess I'll go with sonicap and duelund resistors
What are you using for an Amp? Sounds like you're clipping one of the speakers.
Yes. I think you are correct. What is the gear being used?
Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
I'm running a Yamaha as-701 amp which is the same as the 801 amp section and 14 Ga speaker wire. It was turned less than half way up and only one driver on one speaker made this sound and it was a split second. If I put it back in the same spot of the movie it did it again, it was a very explosive scene, which is why I think it's a spider or possibly could have been the source material as I was streaming an avengers movie on Netflix. It has not done it on music, and I listen to my music very loud but never go over half way on the volume. If you look below I highly doubt I was clipping the speaker.
Amp specs as tested by Audioholics
https://www.audioholics.com/amplifier-reviews/yamaha-a-s801-amplifier-review/yamaha-a-s801-measurements
Power Amplifier Measurements
The A-S801 was tested on a dedicated 120V / 20A line. Unless otherwise stated, all power measurements were done with the default 8-ohm impedance setting.
We tested power using three methods all of which were taken at < 0.1% THD + N:
Continuous Full Power Bandwidth (CFP-BW) from 20Hz to 20kHz into 8 and 4-ohm loads
1kHz Power Sweep vs. Distortion (1kHz Psweep)—popularized by the print magazines, this is an instantaneous power vs. distortion test at 1kHz. The problem with this test is it often masks slew-related and or frequency response problems some amplifiers exhibit at the frequency extremes, and thus inflates the measured power results. It does provide an instant gratification number for consumers to argue over on the forums, so we are now incorporating this test to please the masses.
Dynamic PWR - 1kHz CEA-2006 Burst Method testing. This is a dynamic power measurement adopted from the car industry similar to IHF method, only a bit more difficult for an amplifier and more representative of real musical content.
Keep in mind most review publications don't do continuous power measurements and they usually publish power measurements into clipping at 1% THD+N. Our measurements are very conservative since we use a dedicated 20A line with no Variac to regulate line voltage. We constantly monitor the line to ensure it never drops more than 2Vrms from nominal, which in our case was 120Vrms.
The A-S801 produced respectable output on the continuous sweep tests. For 8 ohms, two channels driven, output was around 105 watts/channel and 185 watts/channel for 4 ohms under 0.01% THD+N (well below clipping).
The Yamaha A-S801 belted out some great power numbers with 125wpc at 1% THD+N and 118wpc at 0.1% THD+N with both channels driven into 8 ohms. Into 4 ohm load, the A-S801 mustered 188wpc at 0.1% THD+N and about 200wpc at 1% THD+N with both channels driven.
There is a dreaded impedance switch on the back of the A-S801 that reduces the output power of this unit for certification purposes only. We recommend leaving it at the default 8 ohm setting and NEVER changing it. -
Could be a bad driver, loose internal wiring, crossover component beginning to fail, crappy speaker wire terminalsGustard X26 Pro DAC
Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)
There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus -
Citing those specs as some sort of proof you couldn't have overdriven your integrated simply shows you don't understand the subject matter. Just about any amp made can be overdriven. However, I don't think that is the cause of the pop. What you are describing points to an air leak or weak driver suspension with the spider being the likely suspect. You need to do the air leak test on your speakers before anything else.
One other comment, don't use Audioholics for information on anything. Bunch of clowns.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Citing those specs as some sort of proof you couldn't have overdriven your integrated simply shows you don't understand the subject matter. Just about any amp made can be overdriven. However, I don't think that is the cause of the pop. What you are describing points to an air leak or weak driver suspension with the spider being the likely suspect. You need to do the air leak test on your speakers before anything else.
One other comment, don't use Audioholics for information on anything. Bunch of clowns.
Either way, I know it's not due to clipping -
Citing those specs as some sort of proof you couldn't have overdriven your integrated simply shows you don't understand the subject matter. Just about any amp made can be overdriven. However, I don't think that is the cause of the pop. What you are describing points to an air leak or weak driver suspension with the spider being the likely suspect. You need to do the air leak test on your speakers before anything else.
One other comment, don't use Audioholics for information on anything. Bunch of clowns.
Another thing, I do know that any amp can be over driven, but I know the limits of my equipment and the speakers. They wanted to know my equipment and I shared what it was and the specs, just to show that I'm not trying to overdrive a home theater receiver to power these polks -
If you do have an issue with the driver, I would opt for an original from eBay. The original will be a better match and probably less money to boot.
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Helicopters, gunshots and explosions are VERY FAST very dynamic sounds. They can fry speakers and tweeters very fast and tax even a stout amplifier or integrated amp.
I can't count the number of tweeters and drivers my son has cooked playing shooting games. It happens. Test for air leaks and seal up best you can. Spiders and suspensions are long in the tooth in these speakers and yes they are not getting any younger. I'd opt to find an original off eBay myself. Most of us here have many, many drivers we are stock piling for just that very reason.
It can be very difficult to spot a torn spider as they like to tear along one of the folds or along the glue points. -
The pop as mentioned is likely from an over driven speaker. Some speakers have a softer more indistinguishable sound, polks have what I like to call a clack sound. It is a clear indication the speaker is over driven. The 2B's are good for bass, but for extreme low frequencies as found in movies, they don't have the punch a subwoofer does. I have 2.3TL's and even these can clack if pushed for HT duty so I am careful with the volume now that I found the limit, especially with movies. TBH for HT if you like subsonic bass, you really need a sub. If I want to push mine I creep up on it and check he speaker excursion first. Thankfully the drivers are similar and I had smaller cheaper single driver polk M4's that I learned the limits with.
Since you have 4 speakers making the bass, one will always clack first. Usually the others are right behind. There are statistical variations. A replacement may not solve the issue or just shift it to the next speaker.
That said it is good to check for air leaks. They can be minor. If you press the passive radiator in about 1/4in the other speakers should return to their resting state in about 3 seconds. Sadly air leaks can be very tough to find. You need to check every seal and make sure none of the speaker baskets are warped.
It could be a weaker spider which you can't really do anything about. If the spider became detached, as mentioned, it can be hard to see. I found playing low frequency test tones can sometimes find that. At a medium to medium high level you may hear a slight buzzing sound at the right frequency. There a a number of free tone generator apps to pick and sweep through frequencies. -
The pop as mentioned is likely from an over driven speaker. Some speakers have a softer more indistinguishable sound, polks have what I like to call a clack sound. It is a clear indication the speaker is over driven. The 2B's are good for bass, but for extreme low frequencies as found in movies, they don't have the punch a subwoofer does. I have 2.3TL's and even these can clack if pushed for HT duty so I am careful with the volume now that I found the limit, especially with movies. TBH for HT if you like subsonic bass, you really need a sub. If I want to push mine I creep up on it and check he speaker excursion first. Thankfully the drivers are similar and I had smaller cheaper single driver polk M4's that I learned the limits with.
Since you have 4 speakers making the bass, one will always clack first. Usually the others are right behind. There are statistical variations. A replacement may not solve the issue or just shift it to the next speaker.
That said it is good to check for air leaks. They can be minor. If you press the passive radiator in about 1/4in the other speakers should return to their resting state in about 3 seconds. Sadly air leaks can be very tough to find. You need to check every seal and make sure none of the speaker baskets are warped.
It could be a weaker spider which you can't really do anything about. If the spider became detached, as mentioned, it can be hard to see. I found playing low frequency test tones can sometimes find that. At a medium to medium high level you may hear a slight buzzing sound at the right frequency. There a a number of free tone generator apps to pick and sweep through frequencies.
The good news is that we are in the middle of moving and my Polks will no longer be playing double duty for HT, they will be strictly for music -
scubiesteve wrote: »The ones Midwest sells are a one type fits all, which is impossible.
The popping could be any number of reasons such as a air leak or a detached spider. If it's an air leak new drivers sure as hell won't fix it, so you need look into that. If it's not an air leak you'll have to pull each driver to check the spider. I guarantee it's not a tweeter.
Clarity stopped making the ESA, it's been replaced with the CSA. Clarity or Sonicap are pretty close, pick one.
I'm 99% percent sure it's not an air leak as it doesn't happen when listening to music, only high intensity movie scenes.
What are you using for an amp?
The high intensity movie scenes as pointed out by pitdogg2, really make the woofers pump more air since most movies have a good amout of LFE.
When the speakers pop like you describe, they are looking for an air cushion to help dampen the excursion. If you do have an air leak, then this could be the case.
Lightly press on the passive radiator until the woofers extend, then release the PR and observe the woofers retract. If they suck back in right away, like take 1-2 seconds or less, then you likely have a leak.
Areas that are known for leaking are the top and bottom caps, check the 4 mounting nuts on each end.
If you are using an AVR, keep in mind you are driving 9 speakers on each channel, in which require a fair amount of current, this is the area where you may run into clipping at low volumes.
Clean amp signals at high volumes is better than dirty signals at lower volumes.
Not trying to sound overly basic, but just trying to help with the popping.
These components are getting harder to come by so we want to make sure you fix the issue sooner than later.
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scubiesteve wrote: »The ones Midwest sells are a one type fits all, which is impossible.
The popping could be any number of reasons such as a air leak or a detached spider. If it's an air leak new drivers sure as hell won't fix it, so you need look into that. If it's not an air leak you'll have to pull each driver to check the spider. I guarantee it's not a tweeter.
Clarity stopped making the ESA, it's been replaced with the CSA. Clarity or Sonicap are pretty close, pick one.
I'm 99% percent sure it's not an air leak as it doesn't happen when listening to music, only high intensity movie scenes.
What are you using for an amp?
The high intensity movie scenes as pointed out by pitdogg2, really make the woofers pump more air since most movies have a good amout of LFE.
When the speakers pop like you describe, they are looking for an air cushion to help dampen the excursion. If you do have an air leak, then this could be the case.
Lightly press on the passive radiator until the woofers extend, then release the PR and observe the woofers retract. If they suck back in right away, like take 1-2 seconds or less, then you likely have a leak.
Areas that are known for leaking are the top and bottom caps, check the 4 mounting nuts on each end.
If you are using an AVR, keep in mind you are driving 9 speakers on each channel, in which require a fair amount of current, this is the area where you may run into clipping at low volumes.
Clean amp signals at high volumes is better than dirty signals at lower volumes.
Not trying to sound overly basic, but just trying to help with the popping.
These components are getting harder to come by so we want to make sure you fix the issue sooner than later.
I'm running a high current integrated stereo amplifier, I'll check for air leaks after I complete the x-over and TL mods. Thanks for the help though, I absolutely love these speakers and can't wait to get them in tip top shape and play my favorite LP's -
The proper air leak test, push the PR in and while holding it in watch the drivers. They will pop out then slowly recede. Anything less than 3 seconds to the resting position means there is an air leak. The end caps on the 2B's are glued and stapled on, so no bolts.
YOU SHOULD TEST FOR AIR LEAKS BEFORE DOING ANYTHING ELSE. Hopefully, that's clear enough.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
The proper air leak test, push the PR in and while holding it in watch the drivers. They will pop out then slowly recede. Anything less than 3 seconds to the resting position means there is an air leak.
Thanks. Should have made my post after I went to bed....
I had this thread confused with a different 2.3TL thread my mistake.
Mods, you can delete my statement of.."then release the PR"
