HK and Denon in the house: Shootout

AsSiMiLaTeD

Well I've got a unique opportunity this weekend, I've got eight different receivers I'm comparing. I've been on the receiver search for quite a while and have been through several units in the last few months.

My ultimate goal is separates, but I'm gonna wait until I get my media room built later this year for that, as to me separates are just not practical for my everyday application. So, bearing in mind that I'll be building that system later this year, my budget for a receiver is ~$500, buying used of course since I can get more for my money that way.

So I've been through all the major brands like Yamaha, Sony ES, HK, Denon, Onkyo, Pioneer Elite, and Marantz. Honestly I've not listened to anything that sounds bad, in fact every one I've listened to sounds great with my speakers. But there's a certain sound I'm looking to get out of my system, can't really describe it, but I'll know when I hear it.

So I've narrowed down my choices to Denon and HK, the odd couple. Yes I know that's an odd pairing becuase both have totally different sounds, but I feel that each offers certain characteristics of the sound I'm looking for.

In all, I have eight receivers that I'm comparing, all fairly close in price range:

Denon 2802
Denon 2803
Denon 3801
Denon 3802
HK 520
HK 525
HK 430
HK DPR 1001

I would have liked to test these but they are a bit over the price I'm looking to pay right now:

Denon 3803
Denon 3805
HK 7200

So I'll be testing today and will post my thoughts. I've got a friend who has a switch that he bought (I think from Americell when they were still here in Dallas) that will let me connect up to ten receivers at once, so that will make this testing easier and will enable me to do a better blind test.

If anyone has any advice for doing this testing, post it here or shoot me an email, as I'll likely be checking in from time to time.

-Danny

wlrandall

If anyone has any advice for doing this testing, post it here or shoot me an email, as I'll likely be checking in from time to time.

-Danny [/B]

1) Lots of other Dallasites to give you a true subjective rating from a "jury".
2) Large, thick slabs of beef sizzling over hot coals.
3) Beverages of choice in required quantities.

That oughta get it done right!

Early B.

I'll be very interested in your findings. I just ordered a 3803 to replace my HK 525. The 525 is great, but I'm thinking I'll like the Denon sound better (I used to own a Denon 1803). Slightly better bass, I believe, but it's hard to tell unless you can do an A/B test.

PM -- How would you characterize the difference in sound between the HK and the Denon?

Ceruleance

I'd like to know whether harman's digital amps in the 1001 give it the edge over the 525, as I "upgraded" from a 525 to a 1001 but sold the 525 before I could do a comparison

AsSiMiLaTeD

Well after several hours of testing, the Denon 3801 came out on top. I was surprised to say the least as that was the oldest unit of the ones I tested. The HK 525 came in next.

Before I started the tests, I expected that the 525 would be my first choice, as I typically prefer the HK sound to other manufacturers. However, with my setup, room accoustics, etc, the 3801 did the best job.

What's odd is that I didn't like the 3802 at all with my setup, Denon did something different with that model. I'm not sure what, but I can hear a noticeable difference, especially with 2 channel material. Honestly, I really didn't care for the other Denons as much either...there's just something about that 3801 that agrees with me.

I also wasn't impressed with the DPR 1001 with the digital amps. It has a good sound, but I just think it lacks the guts for my application. I know there's a higher model of that out now, would like to hear that some day.

The 3801 wins over the 525 only by a very slight margin, as both have excellent sound. Ultimately what made the decision was the tone controls. With the HK, some adjustment with the treble is needed to get the sound I want. With the Denon, I can leave the controls at 0 and be completely satisfied. I feel the better amp is one that can give me the sound I want without using tone controls, therefore the decision to go with the 3801. 2 Channel direct on the 3801 is one of the most beautiful things I've ever heard, quite spectacular.

So there you have it, the underdog is the winner.

AsSiMiLaTeD

Originally posted by Early B.
I'll be very interested in your findings. I just ordered a 3803 to replace my HK 525. The 525 is great, but I'm thinking I'll like the Denon sound better (I used to own a Denon 1803). Slightly better bass, I believe, but it's hard to tell unless you can do an A/B test.

PM -- How would you characterize the difference in sound between the HK and the Denon?

I think they're both very natural sounding. Per my review above, I think I get the better sound out of the Denon with no adjustments to tone controls, and I'm a firm believer that you should never have to touch those...

I think that with the tweeter in the 150s, the Denon's 'flat' sound just does a little better.

Again, all that's based on my speakers with my room accoustics. I ended up choosing the 3801, which is the one I least figured going in to the tests...just goes to show you how much room accoustics and setup can affect the outcome.

wire

Denons good stuff . Always liked the power . But i like alot of high current power . Sounds like you had fun

wallstreet

Hmm. 8 receivers in a room. Your're closing in on RussMan lunacy! I like WLRandall's idea though. I could've brought over the rti6's for another impromptu Tejas shootin match! Yahoooooo!

VR3

I hope you plan on posting a picture of all them receivers..........

AsSiMiLaTeD

Originally posted by Vr3MxStyler2k3
I hope you plan on posting a picture of all them receivers..........

I didn't have my digital camera today...but I took some pics with my 35mm, I'll scan a few of those in when i get them developed...

Early B.

So how da hell did you get all of those receivers in one room? Did you purchase all of them and plan to return/sell them?

Maybe you just have lots of friends with HT systems.

AsSiMiLaTeD

Originally posted by Early B.
So how da hell did you get all of those receivers in one room? Did you purchase all of them and plan to return/sell them?

Maybe you just have lots of friends with HT systems.

A little bit of both combined with a really cool guy here at Tweeter...

I bought the 3801 (actually from Cliff here on this site). I actually bought that for a friend, but money forced him to back out after I had already sent Cliff the money, so I figured I'd go ahead and test it as well...

I got the Denon 2803 from my contact at Tweeter.

I had friends who had the Denon 2802 and 3802 and the HK DPR 1001.

I bought the HK AVR 430 at the local CC since they have a return policy with no restocking fee. I'll be returning that today...

I bought the HK 520 and 525 directly from Harman Audio. I've got a friend who is going to take the 520 off my hands. I've decided to hang on to the HK 525 and use it for bedroom duty since I got such a great deal on that and the 3801 that I'm keeping.

dave shepard

Your gonna have one hell of a sale after the test I'm sure.

Dave

Sami

Originally posted by Polkmaniac

I would have liked to test these but they are a bit over the price I'm looking to pay right now:

HK 7200

Fry's was selling the H/K for $499 not too long ago. Must have been a pricing mistake. Anyway, if you want to test one, let me know. I'm running my HT with this unit.

AsSiMiLaTeD

Originally posted by Sami
Fry's was selling the H/K for $499 not too long ago. Must have been a pricing mistake. Anyway, if you want to test one, let me know. I'm running my HT with this unit.

According to the guy at Fryz, it was a pricing mistake. I went to go pick one up but they were 'out of stock', when I asked for a raincheck he said that they couldn't give raincheck for a mistake in pricing...jackass...

wlrandall

Originally posted by Polkmaniac
According to the guy at Fryz, it was a pricing mistake. I went to go pick one up but they were 'out of stock', when I asked for a raincheck he said that they couldn't give raincheck for a mistake in pricing...jackass...

Liars...did you happen to see the screen that showed zero stock? They probably just said that to avoid the losses.

TheGrayGhost

” I bought the 3801 (actually from Cliff here on this site).”

Danny,

So the 3801 did arrive in good condition. I sent you an email on Friday and received an auto-answer informing me that you were AWOL from work.

AsSiMiLaTeD

Originally posted by wlrandall
Liars...did you happen to see the screen that showed zero stock? They probably just said that to avoid the losses.

most likely they were BSing me, but I'd rather not buy from someone like that anyway...

AsSiMiLaTeD

Originally posted by TheGrayGhost
” I bought the 3801 (actually from Cliff here on this site).”

Danny,

So the 3801 did arrive in good condition. I sent you an email on Friday and received an auto-answer informing me that you were AWOL from work.

AWOL is right :-)

Yes, arrived in perfect condition and everything works great. As you can see, I actually like it much better than I thought...

Thanks

AsSiMiLaTeD

Well I've been doing some more comparisons between the Denon 3801 and HK 525. Everything else is gone...just the two left.

As I mentioned the 3801 won my audition last weekend, but with the HK 525 coming in second. So Monday I started thinking and decided I'd be able to do a better comparison and get better results when testing just the two units, and I've been doing that off and on throughout the week.

Testing the two side by side without all the other units was a good idea, as now I'm able to compare more...It's also a **** becuase I don't have that amp switcher that I had last weekend, so I'm having to switch inputs and all that...wish they made one of those for consumer use...

Anyway, I'm starting to second-guess myself a little bit, but not completely yet. There are just aspects of each unit that I love. There's something about the HK sound that I can't describe, but agrees with me...but I think that the Denon has a better sound in direct mode, so I fear that what I'm hearing with the HK may be somewhat 'artificial'...

One thing I did notice, the Denon is rated at 30 more WPC than the HK, but the HK power must be conservatively rated as usual, becuase it detroys the Denon in terms of sheer clean output when driving all the speakers, but the Denon wins out when in stereo mode...wierd...

I'm not sure which I'm gonna stick with in the living room...

Any other thoughts out there???

wallstreet

yep, B&K.

PolkWannabie

yep, Sunfire

AsSiMiLaTeD

Originally posted by wallstreet
yep, B&K.

Originally posted by PolkWannabie
yep, Sunfire

Apparently you guys didn't see the paragraph in my original post about my budget

Originally posted by Polkmaniac
My ultimate goal is separates, but I'm gonna wait until I get my media room built later this year for that, as to me separates are just not practical for my everyday application. So, bearing in mind that I'll be building that system later this year, my budget for a receiver is ~$500, buying used of course since I can get more for my money that way.

Early B.

Well, I just completed my own similar shootout between the Denon 3803 and the HK 525. I actually bought the Denon to replace the HK. My expectation was that the Denon would provide better direct mode listening. However, the HK absolutely spanked the Denon. I was taken by surprise. The Denon had more bass, but the bass was clouding the highs and mids. No excitement whatsoever. The HK is simply sweet when it comes to 2-channel. For movies, I think they're about equal. The Denon appeared a bit more laid back in its presentation and had more silibance. The thing that I don't like about the HK is that it takes a couple of seconds to change from one mode to another, and you miss the beginning of certain parts of the DVD tracks.

My wife demanded that I hook the HK back up, so you know what I'll be doing for the next hour.

kingtut

Because I needed an extra A/V input, I decided to purchase another receiver to replace my Sherwood. I was considering the Denon 3803 myself, but ended up getting the H/K 525 because I read from different reviews from users that the 525 is a little better for music. I originally got the H/K 7200 and was going to sell the amps because the wife's complaint of too many "boxes". Due to the acoustic in my room (hardwood floor, no drapes, no carpet) the 7200 sounded bright on its own. It was also probably because the 7200 was not broken into yet. When I hooked one of the amps back on to drive the front speakers, with the 7200 driving the center and the rears, the music sounded warmer and had more bass. I was used to the warm and smooth sound of the Sherwood, so the new H/K 7200 was too bright for me.

My wife and I compromised; I can get another less costly receiver; I get to keep the Audiosource Amp 3 to drive the front speakers and sell the other amp to a buddy. I decided to return the 7200 and purchased the 525. I have not used the R/S meter and S&V DVD to calibrate the 525 yet, only using the EZ set auto calibration on the receiver. I A/B tested both the Sherwood and the 525, w/the Amp3 driving the front speakers, and the receivers driving the center and rear speakers. I could not tell the difference in sound between the 525 & the Sherwood. I'm happy that I got a new toy to play with; I gained the extra a/v input & a couple of extra dsp functions, but the switching from one mode to another is slower w/the 525 then the Sherwood; there is a longer pause before the sound pick up again w/the 525.

Overall, I'm content w/the 525. Of course I had to tell my wife that the H/K 525 was "much better sounding", so she would not nag about spending $ on a new toy.

AsSiMiLaTeD

Originally posted by Early B.
Well, I just completed my own similar shootout between the Denon 3803 and the HK 525. I actually bought the Denon to replace the HK. My expectation was that the Denon would provide better direct mode listening. However, the HK absolutely spanked the Denon. I was taken by surprise. The Denon had more bass, but the bass was clouding the highs and mids. No excitement whatsoever. The HK is simply sweet when it comes to 2-channel. For movies, I think they're about equal. The Denon appeared a bit more laid back in its presentation and had more silibance. The thing that I don't like about the HK is that it takes a couple of seconds to change from one mode to another, and you miss the beginning of certain parts of the DVD tracks.

My wife demanded that I hook the HK back up, so you know what I'll be doing for the next hour.

It's odd that we're both coming to the same conclusion but for different reasons...but I still haven't decided for sure over the 3801.