Amazon Music rolls out a lossless streaming tier that Spotify and Apple can’t match

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  • Nightfall
    Nightfall Posts: 10,086
    How much is Amazon paying Polk?

    Alexa built into their devices. Now I get an email from Polk that says "Amazon new HD streaming service sounds great on Polk Audio speakers!"

    Just an observation.
    afterburnt wrote: »
    They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.

    Village Idiot of Club Polk
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  • Emlyn
    Emlyn Posts: 4,523
    pumpkinman wrote: »
    Coming in late on this but 2 of my last 3 CD’s from Amazon had cracked cases. One was bad enough I felt the need to replace it. I hate it but I’ve become numb to it.

    Amazon used to pack CDs and books much better than they have in recent years but I would occasionally get a cracked case anyway. So, I made a decision about ten years ago to buy around 200 or 300 replacement cases for around 30 cents a piece. I think I'm down to around 10 now but I don't buy many CDs anymore. Blu Ray cases seem more fragile. But, I routinely replace the cases on most Blu Rays I buy because I hate those Eco-Lite or whatever they're called cases. Straight to the recycling bin with those.

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  • rebelsoul
    rebelsoul Posts: 756
    edited September 2019
    I just disabled all audio in device manager except my dac.
    I have not had one problem with the desktop app.
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  • gudnoyez
    gudnoyez Posts: 8,124
    pumpkinman wrote: »
    gudnoyez wrote: »
    Nothing it's just I've had dozens of shipments from them damaged due to insufficient packaging CDs, Blu Rays, stuffing them in a cushy envelope don't protect such items at all. I'm just not a fan of the whole Amazon way of doing things

    Coming in late on this but 2 of my last 3 CD’s from Amazon had cracked cases. One was bad enough I felt the need to replace it. I hate it but I’ve become numb to it.

    While we’re at it, lets add some audiophiles to Amazon’s shipping department too. It’d be nice if a frustratingly large portion of my CD and box set orders didn’t arrive damaged due to being shipped in thin bubble mailers.
    Wednesday at 7:18 PM

    This was a post on another forum about Amazons packing abilities. To funny
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  • rebelsoul
    rebelsoul Posts: 756
    Doing side side by side comparison Qobuz vs Amazon HD
    Peter Gabriel in your eyes 16 bit 44.1. windows app thru usb dac and score one for Amazon.
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  • Absolute_Zero
    Absolute_Zero Posts: 72
    What stops anyone from installing the Realtek HD audio suite and piping the output to their Sound Mixer and then record it all with Audacity?
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  • rebelsoul
    rebelsoul Posts: 756
    It lets me download for free to my hard drive
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  • displayname
    displayname Posts: 1,148
    Nightfall wrote: »
    How much is Amazon paying Polk?

    Alexa built into their devices. Now I get an email from Polk that says "Amazon new HD streaming service sounds great on Polk Audio speakers!"

    Just an observation.
    It's actually the other way around, manufactures pay Amazon (or Google) for certifications and the right to access their voice control, assistants, AI, etc.
    So Polk is just advertising a new element of a feature that they invested in. It encourages customers to stay in the ecosystem.

    "Is there a cost to certify my products for Works with Alexa?
    The lab does charge a fee for testing and certifying products. The lab will evaluate the effort required to certify your products and provide you with a quote before starting the certification process."
    https://developer.amazon.com/alexa/connected-devices/launch/works-with-alexa
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  • Nightfall
    Nightfall Posts: 10,086
    edited September 2019
    Seriously? They pay Amazon?

    The heck with the Chinese theory, Amazon is going to take over the world.

    They don't even pay taxes.
    afterburnt wrote: »
    They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.

    Village Idiot of Club Polk
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  • displayname
    displayname Posts: 1,148
    Yup, and they don't publish the pricing anywhere, so it can be different for each device or company based on complexity of the product or just based on anything they want really. They can easily choose to price out small manufactures because they don't want their names on products that aren't with companies that haven't been established or are not as financially stable. A company like Bose could submit the exact same product as Visio, but Visio could be charged 4x because Amazon wants their logo on "premium" consumer products, and they know Bose will advertise the **it out of it. Same goes for Polk simply because they don't move as many units as Bose, so Bose is a better data collection partner.

    Next time you are at Best Buy or Target, take a mental note of the number of Alexa and Google enabled devices. You're looking at millions of dollars annually in tech revenue all based just in certifications and licensing going to two companies.

    This is why you see big guys like Samsung constantly trying to come up with their own version of a voice assistant (branded as bixby in phones). They want to try to save a few million a year on fees to Google and Amazon if they can come up with their own.
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  • rooftop59
    rooftop59 Posts: 8,121
    DSkip wrote: »
    rooftop59 wrote: »
    cc6f3pcla32y.png

    When you engage this windows volume has no control and as far as I can tell it is completely bypassing the windows sound processing. I am not an IT guy so I could be wrong...

    Ah ok you’re talking about tidal. I was talking about Zon. It’s good to see that option now on the tidal app - when I had it I never had an option like that. It’s been a few years though. I might have to revisit and see if it has improved at all.
    DSkip wrote: »
    rooftop59 wrote: »
    cc6f3pcla32y.png

    When you engage this windows volume has no control and as far as I can tell it is completely bypassing the windows sound processing. I am not an IT guy so I could be wrong...

    Ah ok you’re talking about tidal. I was talking about Zon. It’s good to see that option now on the tidal app - when I had it I never had an option like that. It’s been a few years though. I might have to revisit and see if it has improved at all.

    We just bought a new house and it was a very quick move and we getting work done blah blah so my setups are temp amp right now. And first I had my pc I inning tidal into the ifi into a parasound into contour 1.3 Mkii. I wasn’t critically listening but I was pretty surprised how good it sounded...
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  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,538
    Amazon music HD is available on the Bluesound Node 2i. I have been checking it out, and really like it so far. The radio stations are EXCELLENT, and very much like Pandora at pegging the right music. This may be a keeper. Tons of playlists and tons of radio stations.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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  • erniejade
    erniejade Posts: 6,321
    Bluesound is quick on the add. Nice!
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  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,949
    Welcome back, Steve.
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  • WLDock
    WLDock Posts: 3,073
    edited September 2019
    steveinaz wrote: »
    Amazon music HD is available on the Bluesound Node 2i. I have been checking it out, and really like it so far. The radio stations are EXCELLENT, and very much like Pandora at pegging the right music. This may be a keeper. Tons of playlists and tons of radio stations.
    Ok, this is good to hear. I was just looking at a used Node 2i, Arcam rPlay, and a Marantz streamer....but I'll see what I end up with for music streaming.

    For now I'll check it out on my Fire TV box in the TV room...which will be changed out for a Nvidia Shield for my video steaming. I just need to sign up. I created this post but I've yet to check it out. I'll see whats up this week.
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  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,538
    edited September 2019
    I can also add, as it relates to how the Node 2i works, the interface is pretty simple and logical (I like simple) with one odd thing. At first I struggled to find where you go to search for particular songs/albums; I could only find "Playlists" and "Radio Stations" buttons, but you need to follow the "radio stations" tab, then go to (IIRC)..."search for artist/songs" then it brings up everything. My PS Audio Stellar DAC was reporting "96k" on hi-res tracks.

    Keep in mind I'm using the BSound OS on an Ipad mini 4.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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  • WagnerRC
    WagnerRC Posts: 2,158
    Clipdat wrote: »
    Welcome back, Steve.

    ditto
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 25,553
    edited September 2019
    pumpkinman wrote: »
    gudnoyez wrote: »
    Nothing it's just I've had dozens of shipments from them damaged due to insufficient packaging CDs, Blu Rays, stuffing them in a cushy envelope don't protect such items at all. I'm just not a fan of the whole Amazon way of doing things

    Coming in late on this but 2 of my last 3 CD’s from Amazon had cracked cases. One was bad enough I felt the need to replace it. I hate it but I’ve become numb to it.

    One should never become "numb" to buying something NEW and be satisfied that it shows up broke. All it takes is just a tiny bit of proper packaging and 99.9999% will show in in perfect shape. Some of the CD's I bought were rare and hard to come by I'm never going to be satisfied to spend 30-40$$ on very difficult to get CD's and have an over sized thin envelope with 6 CD's inside smashed to smithereens. Bad enough that the CD's were scratched from the plastic pieces. Amazon is so careless that they would rather replace the items 3x than spend 1.00 more for a proper sized box to ship them in and get them to the buyer in perfect shape the first time EVERY TIME...

    I also have a good stock of replacement cases but those are getting harder to acquire as well. Most I now see are those horrible super thin cases that none of the artwork will fit in and still close let alone see the titles standing on edge.
    Post edited by pitdogg2 on
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  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
    The real problem here are the CD vendors that still use the plastic cases. I have a number of CDs that are packaged in cardboard sleeves.
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  • tophatjohnny
    tophatjohnny Posts: 4,182
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    pumpkinman wrote: »
    gudnoyez wrote: »
    Nothing it's just I've had dozens of shipments from them damaged due to insufficient packaging CDs, Blu Rays, stuffing them in a cushy envelope don't protect such items at all. I'm just not a fan of the whole Amazon way of doing things

    Coming in late on this but 2 of my last 3 CD’s from Amazon had cracked cases. One was bad enough I felt the need to replace it. I hate it but I’ve become numb to it.

    One should never become "numb" to buying something NEW and be satisfied that it shows up broke. All it takes is just a tiny bit of proper packaging and 99.9999% will show in in perfect shape. Some of the CD's I bought were rare and hard to come by I'm never going to be satisfied to spend 30-40$$ on very difficult to get CD's and have an over sized thin envelope with 6 CD's inside smashed to smithereens. Bad enough that the CD's were scratched from the plastic pieces. Amazon is so careless that they would rather replace the items 3x than spend 1.00 more for a proper sized box to ship them in and get them to the buyer in perfect shape the first time EVERY TIME...

    I also have a good stock of replacement cases but those are getting harder to acquire as well. Most I now see are those horrible super thin cases that none of the artwork will fit in and still close let alone see the titles standing on edge.

    I have paid big bucks for hard to find cds and took a huge loss when I parted with it all. No regrets as music moves the soul and soul music tells it all.
    With my own library as huge as it is, I am still adding to it darn near daily and with new found connections, adding music from artists totally unheard of in the main stream music circles so I do know it never ends. At this point the hand picking of what flies and what don't is sure making for the best home grown digital music library I have ever witnessed .
    This Amazon music will go through its 90 day trial and that's it. Great time to listen and learn of what new material will make the grade. 😂 Great tool for sure!
    "if it's not fun, it's not worth it & remember folks, "It's All About The Music"!!
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  • Emlyn
    Emlyn Posts: 4,523
    I cancelled the auto renewal on mine. Easy to do and it runs for 90 days as a free trial regardless of that, which is nice of Amazon to do. Can jump back in after December if I want to.
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  • rooftop59
    rooftop59 Posts: 8,121
    Emlyn wrote: »
    I cancelled the auto renewal on mine. Easy to do and it runs for 90 days as a free trial regardless of that, which is nice of Amazon to do. Can jump back in after December if I want to.

    You can also change the settings to remind you before it auto renews. So that's what I did...
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  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,949
    Interesting bit I just read on the Stereophile comments section:

    "Then I installed the Amazon Music app on my phone and attempted to cast to my Chromecast Audio. The cast icon is there but reports no devices. Turns out, for some reason, Amazon requires "guest mode" to be turned on in the Chromecast. No problem, easy to do. But then I notice Amazon also says streaming to Chromecast is limited to Standard quality - "up to 320 Kbps MP3". So Amazon falls far short of Tidal's ability to cast CD quality to Chromecast. (I believe Qobuz will do 96/24.)"
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  • WLDock
    WLDock Posts: 3,073
    ^^That is interesting as pretty much most of their Fire devices, 2nd Gen Echo, and most iOS and Android devices since 2014 are supported. They indicate this on their page. Who knows if its something they will resolve. There are tons of Chromcast users out there but the device is not longer sold.

    https://www.amazon.com/b?ie=UTF8&node=14070322011
    Which Android devices support Amazon Music HD?
    Most Android devices released since 2014 can support HD/Ultra HD playback (up to 48kHz). Please ensure that your device is running on Android Lollipop, or later.

    At this time Amazon Music HD is not supported on Chromecast.
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  • codycatalist
    codycatalist Posts: 2,662
    Clipdat wrote: »
    Interesting bit I just read on the Stereophile comments section:

    "Then I installed the Amazon Music app on my phone and attempted to cast to my Chromecast Audio. The cast icon is there but reports no devices. Turns out, for some reason, Amazon requires "guest mode" to be turned on in the Chromecast. No problem, easy to do. But then I notice Amazon also says streaming to Chromecast is limited to Standard quality - "up to 320 Kbps MP3". So Amazon falls far short of Tidal's ability to cast CD quality to Chromecast. (I believe Qobuz will do 96/24.)"



    I don't have guest mode on my Chromecast Audio and it recognized my device right away.

    Can't comment on SQ limits.
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  • Nightfall
    Nightfall Posts: 10,086
    edited September 2019
    I think it may just be a business grudge. They both (Amazon and Google) used to not put their respective video streaming apps on each others devices. Probably something to do with Amazon wanting to sell more Firesticks. They don't make phones so have at it on Android.

    https://www.fastcompany.com/90373830/amazon-and-google-are-finally-supporting-each-others-streaming-tv-devices
    afterburnt wrote: »
    They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.

    Village Idiot of Club Polk
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  • rooftop59
    rooftop59 Posts: 8,121
    Nightfall wrote: »
    I think it may just be a business grudge. They both (Amazon and Google) used to not put their respective video streaming apps on each others devices. Probably something to do with Amazon wanting to sell more Firesticks. They don't make phones so have at it on Android.

    https://www.fastcompany.com/90373830/amazon-and-google-are-finally-supporting-each-others-streaming-tv-devices

    Wait, you mean the Fire phone never took off? :p
    Living Room 2.2: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Arcam SA30; Musical Fidelity A308; Sony UBP-x1000es
    Game Room 5.1.4:     Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 900 mains, CLR-3000 center, StudioMonitor 350 surrounds, ProMonitor 800 atmos x4; Sub - Monoprice Monolith 15in THX Ultra
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  • rooftop59
    rooftop59 Posts: 8,121
    So I am still enjoying Amazon HD trial on my PC at work, but that's about it. Nothing--and I mean NADA--will stream on my iphone cell data. While I do use cricket which limits to about 8 mbps, tidal MQA will stream fine if I want it to (I usually don't because I'm in my car...)

    Also, still no good way to listen at home...so unless that changes I won't be getting rid of tidal anytime soon. Too bad, because the amazon family plan in WAY cheaper...
    Living Room 2.2: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Arcam SA30; Musical Fidelity A308; Sony UBP-x1000es
    Game Room 5.1.4:     Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 900 mains, CLR-3000 center, StudioMonitor 350 surrounds, ProMonitor 800 atmos x4; Sub - Monoprice Monolith 15in THX Ultra
    Bedroom 2.1     Harmon Kardon HK3490; Bluesounds Node N130; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer
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  • WLDock
    WLDock Posts: 3,073
    edited October 2019
    rooftop59 wrote: »
    So I am still enjoying Amazon HD trial on my PC at work, but that's about it. Nothing--and I mean NADA--will stream on my iphone cell data. While I do use cricket which limits to about 8 mbps, tidal MQA will stream fine if I want it to (I usually don't because I'm in my car...)

    Also, still no good way to listen at home...so unless that changes I won't be getting rid of tidal anytime soon. Too bad, because the amazon family plan in WAY cheaper...
    Yeah, from what I'm seeing lack of hardware is an issue. So far a PC seems to be the one option that offers the most. Below is info from a thread over on AVS Forum:
    Heos:
    Will play HD and Ultra HD tracks natively at full resolution within Heos app, but My Music is still not available. This can be confirmed by hitting Status button on your D-M AVR/AVP.

    BluOS:
    Will play HD and Ultra HD tracks natively at full resolution within BluOS app, and My Music is available. People have reported that their DACs are receiving the native bit rate and sampling frequency of Ultra HD tracks.

    Sonos:
    Will play HD (but not Ultra HD tracks natively) at full resolution within Sonos app, and My Music is available. Within the Sonos app, there is no way to verify 16/44.1 FLAC, but folks have clocked their router and determined that the bitrate being received by Sonos is in-line with 16/44.1 FLAC.
    https://www.avsforum.com/forum/39-networking-media-servers-content-streaming/3091372-what-devices-will-stream-amazon-music-hd-lossless-6.html#post58668230



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  • Polkitup2
    Polkitup2 Posts: 1,622
    In another thread I mentioned that I have been using the Amazon HD music service on a Mac mini with my W4S DAC. I found that streaming the Amazon HD/UltraHD albums did not sound as good as playing the same HDtracks sourced albums played through Jriver.

    Since then I was happy to find that the Amazon HD music app for Mac also lets you download albums or tracks and play them directly from your local storage (maybe NAS too). I compared a few recently released albums that appear to be the same on both HDtracks and Amazon music. I am using the term "same" somewhat loosely as I do not have a detailed provenance for the albums.

    My impression was that downloaded Amazon ultraHD/HD tracks sound better than the streamed Amazon tracks and are closer in sound quality to the Jriver played HDtracks. I still give the nod to Jriver using the HDtracks files. I suspect that the Amazon app has to go through some additional Mac music processing versus Jriver which has exclusive access to my DAC.

    Frankly when casually listening and flipping back and forth between playing the same HDtracks music versus the downloaded Amazon music, I occasionally lost track which player was being used because they both sounded good. But whenever I transitioned into a more serious listening state, my preference was the Jriver HDtracks.

    Hopefully others here can do some testing and provide their opinions on downloaded Amazon ultraHD versus HDtracks sound quality.

    Some other things I learned is that the downloaded Amazon ultraHD/HD tracks does keep the same resolution as the Amazon streamed cloud version - but to make sure you get the full resolution you need to specify in the Amazon player preference settings for downloads that you want "best available".

    Also, with the Mac you have to manually make sure the MIDI app has the correct resolution set when using the Amazon player. If you for example play a 192 kHz file using Jriver then the MIDI app will be set to 192 kHz. Since 192 kHz is currently is the max resolution for Amazon HD music you will be fine if you play an Amazon ultraHD 192 KHz file. However, if you then play a 44 kHz track on Jriver the MIDI setting will change to 44kHz and you must manually change it back to 192 kHz resolution for the Amazon ultraHD tracks. The Amazon app needs to be modified to allow exclusive device access to eliminate this current drawback. Bezos needs to get this done!

    I also noticed that the actual stored file sizes between HDtracks and Amazon downloads are similar, but not quite the same. It does not appear that Amazon is compressing the files, but Amazon uses a proprietary file structure and format to store the download data. I didn't see any .flac listed - lol. Not sure if they encrypt the data.

    Even without the exclusive device access and slightly less sound quality than HDtrack downloads, I think Amazon really has something here. The selection of artists and albums is nothing short of phenomenal. The fact that you can build your own locally stored library for optimum quality is also plus. It is certainly worth trying the free 3 month trial, if nothing else you can preview a whole bunch of music you might of otherwise never heard.

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