Hauxon's SRS 1.2TL restoration

2

Comments

  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 14,893
    One you may or may not want to try. The top ears on the pin are actually made to grip the wire insulation and the lower pair the wire. It makes it "less" floppy than just wire alone. I also did solder a bit after bending "crimping" the lower ears over the wire.

    Leaving the wire exposed may result in a corrosion point if not tinned.

    just a thought
  • hauxonhauxon Posts: 138
    I could not get the top ears to crimp around the insulation because it was too thick. I might put hot glue into the holes to secure it better.

    Now that I have everything I need to figure where to start. I was thinking the maybe the inductors first, then the resistors and caps last. ..or I should just finish one part, left or right, first and then the other.

    One noob question. Are inductors directional, does it matter what wire does into what? And I read somewhere that I would be a good rule to have all caps running in the same direction. Just BS?
    SRS 1.2 TL | SDA 2B Studio TL | NAD M51 preamp/dac | NAD C272 power amp | Chromecast Audio | RoPieee Roon Raspberry Pi endpoint
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 14,893
    Inductors are not directional
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 43,106
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    Inductors are not directional

    Correct, but do not stack them and you want to position them perpendicular to each other.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • hauxonhauxon Posts: 138
    edited September 19
    I'm off to sleep. I'm maybe half way through with one of the crossovers. No major hurdle yet just good fun. :)
    8abepte3vp1c.jpg
    SRS 1.2 TL | SDA 2B Studio TL | NAD M51 preamp/dac | NAD C272 power amp | Chromecast Audio | RoPieee Roon Raspberry Pi endpoint
  • tonyp063tonyp063 Posts: 690
    F1nut wrote: »
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    Inductors are not directional

    Correct, but do not stack them and you want to position them perpendicular to each other.

    ^^^^^

    You need to rotate one of those inductors 90 degrees along one of its axis.


  • Hrannar, the c-coil had a magnetic metal core, and should be well clear of any other inductors. You should also use non-magnetic screws (Stainless, Brass or Aluminum) and plastic hold-down clamps to secure it.

    eg33bimha46v.jpg

    The safest place would be centered on the bottom of the cabinet.

    When I eliminate the large spool inductors, I replace them with a new mount made from 1/2" MDF, 3/4" nylon standoffs, and a 1/4 X 20 Hurricane Nut.

    h0rf1cazob5f.jpg

    ab4rlhnv1xjo.jpg

    To the point that @westmassguy made
    Just showing you where I put mine when I did my 3.1's.
    Hope this helps
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 14,893
    edited September 19
    tonyp063 wrote: »
    F1nut wrote: »
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    Inductors are not directional

    Correct, but do not stack them and you want to position them perpendicular to each other.

    ^^^^^

    You need to rotate one of those inductors 90 degrees along one of its axis.


    Correct the pictures on the board actually show you which way the inductor goes.
    (As in which way the winding's should face). The one in front needs a 90° rotation.

    Both of those are going the same direction and can interfere with each other.
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 43,106
    hauxon wrote: »
    I'm off to sleep. I'm maybe half way through with one of the crossovers. No major hurdle yet just good fun. :)
    8abepte3vp1c.jpg

    No bueno.

    Other than the mentioned issue with the inductors you need to secure them to the board. I seriously suggest using double sided self adhesive foam tape to not only help secure them, but also provide a cushion to prevent the varnish from being rubbed off from contact with the board. You need to keep in mind there is considerable air movement and therefore considerable vibrations. You should use the same tape under the caps. Resistors should be raised up a bit from the board by using two small pieces of the foam tape, one at each end to allow for air circulation as resistors get hot. There are holes pre-drilled in the board for zip ties, use them. It's good practice to lay a piece of the foam tape over the inductor coils before installing the zip ties. 3M makes VHB foam tape, I highly recommend it.

    Another tip, never bend a lead where it comes out of the casing. Use needle nosed pliers to hold the lead where it comes out then make your bend. Keep the leads straight, not all waving as it looks more professional.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • hauxonhauxon Posts: 138
    edited September 20
    Thank you guys, can't believe I didn't put the inductors on correctly since I spent about an hour before I started soldering reading about inductors and crossover layout. Shows maybe you should not solder when you're tired. The reason nothing is tied down is that the zip ties I had at home were too thick. I just tried to support the weight with my hand when rolling the crossover over and put some support under where heavy components would be hanging down. I will get narrower zip ties today and use hot melt glue to further secure weighty components like the tall and narrow 1mH coil that is rather wiggly standing up. I also realized I forgot to order the 0.4mH inductors that I need from F to J on the board so I will need to temporarily reuse there original coils there.

    Good tip using a double sided foam tape. Makes perfect sense since there is plenty or moving air inside the cabinets that might cause vibrations. And I agree using pliers to bend the leads would look more professional. The resistors (on the back) are raised from the board because the Jantzen resistors are longer than the Mills so I needed to bend the leads (using pliers :) ) in order to make em fit. Won't be needing foam beneath since they support their own weight an are raised about 7-8mm from the board.
    p23n2blbkvbq.jpg
    SRS 1.2 TL | SDA 2B Studio TL | NAD M51 preamp/dac | NAD C272 power amp | Chromecast Audio | RoPieee Roon Raspberry Pi endpoint
  • westmassguywestmassguy Posts: 6,455
    Keep this for reference

    hqgc5ud1epkh.gif
    Home Theater/2 Channel:
    Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
    Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
    Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
    Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
    Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer
    Cables: Speaker: Furez 10/2 with GLS Locking Banana Plugs
    Interconnect: Furez 10/2 with SpeakONs
    ICs: Custom Furez by Douglas Connections
    Den:
    Bose 901 Series II Continentals Restored, Re-Built Equalizer with Elna Silmic IIs, Sonicaps, and Silver Mica Caps
    Carver CT-3 Pre, Carver C-500

    dhsspeakerservice.com/
    Exclusive Distributor of Gimpod's Custom SDA Circuit Boards

    "And keep her under 70, would you, huh? Betty likes a slow ride"
  • Viking64Viking64 Posts: 4,480
    Now I want doughnuts. :'(

    z5adskpujaoj.jpg
  • hauxonhauxon Posts: 138
    The right crossover almost finished. Opinions on the inductors, is it better like this?
    yq6w5l9356rp.jpg
    SRS 1.2 TL | SDA 2B Studio TL | NAD M51 preamp/dac | NAD C272 power amp | Chromecast Audio | RoPieee Roon Raspberry Pi endpoint
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 43,106
    I'd stand that big one upright.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 14,893
    edited September 20
    Looking good I'm with Jesse on standing that one up, but according to the graph @westmassguy dropped it is good that way. Now my question. Were those 630v caps on sale or just what you had on hand? Those are huge and a bit overkill but yes i can see if they were super cheap on closeout I may of been inclined to buy as well. I personally like to use all the same line just so in the back of my head I do not get that nagging " what if " going on.

    Be careful getting any hot glue on resistors it can get ugly when they heat up and maybe crack from localized heat
  • hauxonhauxon Posts: 138
    I found having it that way would qualify as "good" according to the image above. It also made easier to connect the wires of the coil and also enabled me to position the inductor further from it's neighbor.

    Here's an image from the first test to see if everything was in order. The 16mH coil elegantly connected to the crossover with laundry clips.
    6ok880q3poqf.jpg

    Since there were no problems I have put everything inside and closed the speaker. So one might say the right speaker is 99% done. Just need to find a good method to solder the solid wires of 16mH inductor to the stranded 14awg speaker wire. And make some mounting harness for it. Now it just lies on the cabinet bottom and is connected via plastic electrical wire connector.

    ...and the sound. I've not done critical listening. Can't say there is a stark difference in character between the left (unmodified) and the right with the new crossover. Maybe hard to hear with both playing at once. The original might be a little bit brighter/harsher. Sounds surprisingly good actually. Any suggestions on how to solder the 16mH coil to the stranded speaker wire?
    SRS 1.2 TL | SDA 2B Studio TL | NAD M51 preamp/dac | NAD C272 power amp | Chromecast Audio | RoPieee Roon Raspberry Pi endpoint
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 14,893
    Think about quick connects one male spade one female spade connector. Like these. It is how i connected mine to the new inductor. I then used heat shrink over the connection point just in case lol 😂 or you use insulated spade.
    I crimp the stranded side compressed the solid side then soldered both sides.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/100-Blue-16-14-Gauge-Male-Female-Spades-Quick-Disconnects-Wire-Connectors-187-/381684847555

    For reference^^^^
  • VR3VR3 Posts: 23,560
    edited September 20
    Weller soldering iron, 750 degrees - solders no problem... simple "hook and loop" versus a twist1a5cb1_f17c0723f676428c92434b9ba6e148c1.webp
    - Not Tom

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • hauxonhauxon Posts: 138
    edited September 21
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    Now my question. Were those 630v caps on sale or just what you had on hand? Those are huge and a bit overkill but yes i can see if they were super cheap on closeout I may of been inclined to buy as well. I personally like to use all the same line just so in the back of my head I do not get that nagging " what if " going on.

    The original plan was to use all CSA caps and reuse the original 16mH coil. Then I decided I wanted the Jantzen coil too. At that point I felt the HiFiCollective cart went over the budget I had set for the parts. So I went with ESA for the bass part of the crossover to lower the cost. The 6.8mH caps were out of stock in 100V so I just took the 630V even if they are bigger. The thinking was using the more expensive CSA caps in the highs where they count the most and use the less expensive ESA for the bass. The CSA is an improved version of the ESA so there should be no major change in character.
    SRS 1.2 TL | SDA 2B Studio TL | NAD M51 preamp/dac | NAD C272 power amp | Chromecast Audio | RoPieee Roon Raspberry Pi endpoint
  • hauxonhauxon Posts: 138
    Still at 99% since the mounting platters I made were tiny bit too big to fit properly through the hole behind the metal plate. Actually the Gimpod boards are too big too so you need to wedge the in. I might just use the old 16mH inductors as mounts until I make better mounts. So I just connected the crossovers and let them lay on the wooden brace below the crossover hole. Then I just put hot glue to airseal the bolt that's now loose in the metal plate.

    I however did some listening yesterday. I must admit I didn't hear a major difference to the sound. Probably because there was so much time between listening and the speaker actually does sound really good to begin with. It may also be that I had already put one 12uF ClarityCap CSA cap into the tweeter part of the array when I fixed the broken cap few weeks ago. I somehow expected the speakers to get a little bit brighter but they were not. That however is a good thing because they do sound good and without a doubt a little better than before modification. I still find sound fuller with the sub turned on and with crossover point around 40-45Hz and volume maybe 20% up. It may be my taste or some kind of bass player obsession with bass. Conclusion: Very happy and looking forward for further listening. :smile:
    SRS 1.2 TL | SDA 2B Studio TL | NAD M51 preamp/dac | NAD C272 power amp | Chromecast Audio | RoPieee Roon Raspberry Pi endpoint
  • hauxonhauxon Posts: 138
    edited September 26
    I've had some time to sit down and listen, not critical listening but rather browsing through music I know well. I put on OK Computer, Kind of Blue and Brubeck's Time Out. All records I've listened to countless times. My first impression was it sounded rather dark or at least darker than expected. They however did open up with increased volume. With volume raised the sound was more balanced. When listening tho Radiohead Exit Music (for Film) at lower volume the acoustic guitar in the beginning of the song was barely noticeable. When listening to the same song on my 2B's at it stands out better. It might however be the result of me sitting closer (the desk in my home office). The guitar is low in the mix and it might possibly be higher background noise in my living room that makes the guitar harder to detect at low volume. Miles and Brubeck sounded fine, maybe a little dark too.

    Of the two types of caps most used for modification here on the forum I choose ClarityCap because they where supposed to be more open (bright??). After the short listening session I felt that the 1.2TL could do with more "openness". It has to be taken into account that the crossover components haven't had that much break in time maybe 20-30 hours with TV on at low volume. I don't think there's anything wrong with the crossovers since both channels sound alike, I'm just being picky. Funny thing I put my hands behind my head in a relaxing position and noticed "improvement" in the sound. My hands reflected some top end back to my ears. So if I made a cup with my palms behind my ears I got the missing details and improved spacial image. The Radiohead song sounded much better. Maybe exaccurated but improved. So can I expect the speakers to open up with more burn in? Maybe I should get some measurement gear to see if there is a "problem" or if it's just an effect of room acoustics, the mix/mastering of the song or both.

    I still haven't fixed the crossover mount and will probably finish this during the weekend. I'm planning to check sealing better while at it and general state of the speaker. I did for example notice that the damping material behind the wooofers had descended into the space behind the crossover. I pushed it back up but I probably need to do an overhaul. May I should somehow test each woofer and tweeter to see if the function properly.

    Hrannar
    Post edited by hauxon on
    SRS 1.2 TL | SDA 2B Studio TL | NAD M51 preamp/dac | NAD C272 power amp | Chromecast Audio | RoPieee Roon Raspberry Pi endpoint
  • hauxonhauxon Posts: 138
    edited September 26
    Saw this at Audiogon. (https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/how-long-does-it-take-to-break-in-coupling-caps)
    dgarretson:
    You'll hear improvement out to 200+ hours with CMR, though by 100 hours you'll be in a position to judge them.

    Dave
    ClarityCap OEM Sales

    Maybe to early to jump to conclusions.

    From the same discussion:
    teo_audio
    break in generally goes like:

    dull and wide mono...

    to exaggerated mid-high treble/mids that are blunted and gritty, that exaggerate fine detail in a blunt phasey mildly metallic way that can sound huge - soundstage wise..

    to darker or calmer but cleaner, faster, leaner.. with the grit falling away and opening finer details

    then finally... to a balanced warm clean final burn in condition. Whatever that may be -- for the given item. not specifically the capacitors in question.

    ..so maybe I'm at the "Dull wide mono" stage! :D
    SRS 1.2 TL | SDA 2B Studio TL | NAD M51 preamp/dac | NAD C272 power amp | Chromecast Audio | RoPieee Roon Raspberry Pi endpoint
  • westmassguywestmassguy Posts: 6,455
    Give it time Hrannar
    Home Theater/2 Channel:
    Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
    Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
    Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
    Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
    Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer
    Cables: Speaker: Furez 10/2 with GLS Locking Banana Plugs
    Interconnect: Furez 10/2 with SpeakONs
    ICs: Custom Furez by Douglas Connections
    Den:
    Bose 901 Series II Continentals Restored, Re-Built Equalizer with Elna Silmic IIs, Sonicaps, and Silver Mica Caps
    Carver CT-3 Pre, Carver C-500

    dhsspeakerservice.com/
    Exclusive Distributor of Gimpod's Custom SDA Circuit Boards

    "And keep her under 70, would you, huh? Betty likes a slow ride"
  • pkquatpkquat Posts: 682
    I am not sure if this is the case here, but I found sitting at bar stool height vs. my normal chair listening height made a difference.
  • hauxonhauxon Posts: 138
    edited September 26
    pkquat wrote: »
    I am not sure if this is the case here, but I found sitting at bar stool height vs. my normal chair listening height made a difference.

    Maybe I should tilt them down! :D
    SRS 1.2 TL | SDA 2B Studio TL | NAD M51 preamp/dac | NAD C272 power amp | Chromecast Audio | RoPieee Roon Raspberry Pi endpoint
  • dromundsdromunds Posts: 8,365
    My experience with the CSA's and ESA's was much along the lines of the Audiogon thread, and it took a long time for break-in. I wouldn't worry.
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 14,893
    edited September 26
    No his bar stool reasoning is sound. Many here think the big boys tend to play over your head in a normal sitting position. Sitting higher puts you in the sweet spot. I'm not sure tilting them down would accomplish that.
    Post edited by pitdogg2 on
  • JayCeeJayCee Posts: 653
    Time should help but I'd definitely play around with placement. I've had the same experience with seat height and my 1.2tl's. Seated low and the sound stage feels like it's a foot too high. I moved to a slightly taller chair and have outriggers on my speakers. Tilting them a hair forward has dropped the sound plane to what I expect it should be. Also, these speakers do not like anything between them that extends too far past the front plane of the speaker or too high. Sound dampening on the middle of the wall in between each speaker and at the height of the midwoofers makes a huge difference in the midrange, top end and detail.
    Speakers: Polk1.2tl's (Uber Mods) Pre/Amp/DAC: PS Audio BHK Signature & 250, Perfectwave DirectStream Cables/IC's: MIT S1Bi-Wire/S1 Balanced +Avel Lindberg 1000VA "Dreadnought" Power Conditioner: Core Power Technologies EQUI=CORE 1800 Power Cords: Core Power Technologies Gold, DH Labs Power Plus DIY w/Neotech NC-P301 & P311ends FLAC Streamer: Roon ROCK on wifi'd NUC⟿Ω☯☥☮⟿🔊♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬
  • hauxonhauxon Posts: 138
    The sofa in my living room is pretty low. I'll check if sitting higher makes a difference. It also sits in the middle of the rather large living room.

    There is a television between the speakers and a five feet wide photograph on canvas above it. I have thought about stuffing old towels behind the canvas to make it somewhat effective as a sound panel. I'm an avid photographer so I've been thinking about making living room and wife friendly sound panels from my photos.
    SRS 1.2 TL | SDA 2B Studio TL | NAD M51 preamp/dac | NAD C272 power amp | Chromecast Audio | RoPieee Roon Raspberry Pi endpoint
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