Did I miss something?

Went on Amazon today to order the new Avengers End Game 4K BD today and it wan't available? Are they just sold out or is there something else going on here. Why wouldn't just take my order and ship it when they can.

Meanwhile it is already available on DTV and perhaps other sources to stream/download...


My New Year's resolution is 3840 × 2160

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Comments

  • Mikey081057Mikey081057 Posts: 6,428
    But now I see it's available from Prime in 4K UHD.... Confusing? Yes
    My New Year's resolution is 3840 × 2160

    HT:Polk LSiM 706 LSiM 705's VR3 LSiM 703's LSiM 702's| Marantz AV7704 | Sunfire TGA-7401 | Oppo UDP 203 | Sony PS4 Pro| Directv Genie HD DVR | Samsung 75" Q8 QLED | SVS PB13 Ultra | MIT EXP 2's (Fronts & Center)

    ManCave: Parasound Halo A21 | Parsound Halo A52+ | Marantz AV7002 AV PrePro | Usher Dancer Mini-x DMD's | Usher BE-616 Center | SVS Ultra Surrounds | SVS SB4000 Sub | SVS SB2000 Sub | Oppo UDP 203 | MIT Shotgun S3's | PSAudio Stellar GCD | Music Hall MMF 5.3se TT w/ Soundsmith Carmen | Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ | Lumin U1 Mini | HP Elite Slice PC | ROON'd for life | Samsung 50" SUHD TV | Sony PS4

    Patio | Polk Atrium 8's | Yamaha R-N303BL |

    Office |Cocktail Audio X14 | KEF LS50 | Peactree Nova 125SE |

    Bedroom | Focal 905's | Chromecast Audio |

    Garage | Polk Monitor 5B's

    Closet Yamaha M80 | 2 Polk MP3K subs| Yaqin MC100B with Shuguang Treasures KT 88's & CV181Z's | Tesla E83CC's | Marantz 2252B | Marantz 2385 | Bluesound Node |Polk SDA SRS 2.3 |
  • ZLTFULZLTFUL Posts: 5,023
    Amazon and Disney are in a pissing contest.

    Amazon wants to be the first to offer the Disney offerings and wants to set their own price.
    Disney says "Disney sets prices and nobody can ship ahead of release."
    "Some people find it easier to be conceited rather than correct."

    "Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 13,728
    Disney has always had a bank vault grip on their titles. They have always sold their titles like Cinderella and such for a very limited time and all stores and online site had to return all unsold merchandise. Then 6 yrs later the new and improved will come out and wash, rinse and repeat down the road again.
  • sgmsmgsgmsmg Posts: 372
    Disc doesn’t come out until the 13th. Sometimes they release streaming earlier than actual media.
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  • daddyjtdaddyjt Posts: 919
    Deadpool is the only thing worth watching in the Marvel “universe” any more, IMHO.
    Too much stuff to keep track of.

    Currently enjoying: Legacy Focus 20/20, McCormack DNA 225, Bill D C1, Oppo 105
  • motorhead43026motorhead43026 Posts: 3,182
    Spoiler alert, Endgame is one of the largest grossing movies of all time. So yeah there is that.
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    Political memes posted as fact and accepted as fact, are sign language of the ignorant, for the ignorant

    tonyb said " but even socialists can do a good thing here and there

    Social media makes dumb people dumber and smart people dumb then dumber.
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 31,114
    Yes we know, it's all about the money. How's that working out elsewhere in society ? Money doesn't make everything right.
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  • EmlynEmlyn Posts: 2,367
    edited August 11
    In this case it's not an issue with Amazon and a movie studio. The release date is on Tuesday for the disc format. But, it is possible that the distributor may send preorder product to vendors it prefers first and Amazon not having a preorder option up yet may mean the distributor is putting the choke on them for a while. Or it could be that Amazon wants to maximize profits by only providing a streaming option at first. Best Buy may be the next biggest seller, and they do tend to charge a couple bucks more.

    The streaming version is of course much easier and cheaper to release and distribute and maybe more profitable. In that realm Amazon is competing with cable and satellite as well as Vudu and Netflix. There's a more competitive market for the discs online and in the few stores that sell 4K discs which is why the studios want to keep the pricing in line across vendors they supply. Has an element of price fixing to it, but the pattern is for a hot 4K disc that comes out at $29.99 to be selling at $19.99 or less in 4 to 6 months. I still won't buy any single movie above the twenty dollar mark.
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  • motorhead43026motorhead43026 Posts: 3,182
    tonyb wrote: »
    Yes we know, it's all about the money. How's that working out elsewhere in society ? Money doesn't make everything right.

    Movies are only successful if people spend their money to see it. So yeah there is also that.
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    All TV's sound enhanced by Polk Magnfi Mini's.

    Other; S60'S, M10 series II, M7C's, Hafler XL600 amp, RB-980BX, Parasound HCA-1500 amp , P5 preamp, all in storage. All speakers have had crossover rebuilds, resulting in a small fortune invested in Sonicaps, and tweeter upgrades.

    Political memes posted as fact and accepted as fact, are sign language of the ignorant, for the ignorant

    tonyb said " but even socialists can do a good thing here and there

    Social media makes dumb people dumber and smart people dumb then dumber.
  • EmlynEmlyn Posts: 2,367
    There is also an element of marketing science involved with the way the different versions are priced and sold. Marketers know that many people think the cheaper option in dollars is the more sensible one because they are "saving" money by not getting physical media. It is also true that some don't like storage clutter. But, for those who are in to quality, it only costs a couple to a few dollars more to buy the 4K version which comes with the streaming version through Movies Anywhere and a superior disc version in terms of sound quality and picture quality.

    The streaming version by itself is way overpriced for what it is which is why Amazon and the movie studio will make a ton of money on it. Maybe even more than box office receipts. For friends who don't like clutter and are only going to watch a movie once, I usually say just do an on demand rental.
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    2. JM Labs Electra 920.1; Parasound JC2 Preamp; Sonic Frontiers Power 2 amp; Sony HAP-Z1ES; Oppo 105D; Music Hall MMF7 and Acoustech phono pre; PS Audio P1000; MIT S1 Cables
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  • westmassguywestmassguy Posts: 6,375
    tonyb wrote: »
    The people at Marvel are smoking dope. So disappointed in "end game". Spoiler alert, so don't read if you haven't seen it.

    They turned Thor into a fat drunk.
    Turned Hulk into a pansie.
    Let Captain America wield Thors Hammer.
    Killed off Iron man.

    I could go on with all the things wrong with this movie.

    Plus the bad guy could handle Thors Hammer too ?? WTF ?? The whole back in time thing didn't even make sense. Made time travel seem like it was an app on your phone, so easy a caveman can do it. Horrible for fans.

    It was soo obvious that this whole movie was a setup to introduce a new Marvel era with more women as hero's, and more....let's just say "modern" gender identities. Obvious Marvel has no clue or even care about the fans that made them what they are, in exchange for what they perceive as a new fan base. How to ruin a brand in 3-2...

    Agreed. Disney's on it's way to ruining yet another franchise.
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  • Mikey081057Mikey081057 Posts: 6,428
    Emlyn wrote: »
    In this case it's not an issue with Amazon and a movie studio. The release date is on Tuesday for the disc format. But, it is possible that the distributor may send preorder product to vendors it prefers first and Amazon not having a preorder option up yet may mean the distributor is putting the choke on them for a while. Or it could be that Amazon wants to maximize profits by only providing a streaming option at first. Best Buy may be the next biggest seller, and they do tend to charge a couple bucks more.

    The streaming version is of course much easier and cheaper to release and distribute and maybe more profitable. In that realm Amazon is competing with cable and satellite as well as Vudu and Netflix. There's a more competitive market for the discs online and in the few stores that sell 4K discs which is why the studios want to keep the pricing in line across vendors they supply. Has an element of price fixing to it, but the pattern is for a hot 4K disc that comes out at $29.99 to be selling at $19.99 or less in 4 to 6 months. I still won't buy any single movie above the twenty dollar mark.

    It was that this was the first time I tried to pre order and it was un available for pre order....Even if the sold out their allocation it always was able to let me pre order it and might backorder it.

    So I bought it in 4K UHD streaming on Prime.
    My New Year's resolution is 3840 × 2160

    HT:Polk LSiM 706 LSiM 705's VR3 LSiM 703's LSiM 702's| Marantz AV7704 | Sunfire TGA-7401 | Oppo UDP 203 | Sony PS4 Pro| Directv Genie HD DVR | Samsung 75" Q8 QLED | SVS PB13 Ultra | MIT EXP 2's (Fronts & Center)

    ManCave: Parasound Halo A21 | Parsound Halo A52+ | Marantz AV7002 AV PrePro | Usher Dancer Mini-x DMD's | Usher BE-616 Center | SVS Ultra Surrounds | SVS SB4000 Sub | SVS SB2000 Sub | Oppo UDP 203 | MIT Shotgun S3's | PSAudio Stellar GCD | Music Hall MMF 5.3se TT w/ Soundsmith Carmen | Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ | Lumin U1 Mini | HP Elite Slice PC | ROON'd for life | Samsung 50" SUHD TV | Sony PS4

    Patio | Polk Atrium 8's | Yamaha R-N303BL |

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  • EmlynEmlyn Posts: 2,367
    The first time I remember the distributor choke hold was a few years ago with one of the Stars Wars movies and them trying to kick Amazon and others into line to maximize profit on something that was expected to be a very big seller. That was before streaming was as big a market as it is now. I suspect Amazon is perfectly happy to sell the streaming version first and they'd probably have a good legal case if they were denied access to that. If Amazon really wanted to sell the discs badly enough they'd get those for release on Tuesday too.
    1. Polk LSiM707, 704C, 703; Dual SVS SB2000 subwoofers; Marantz SR7011 receiver; Parasound A23 amp; Oppo 205; Toshiba HD-DVD Player; Sony 65" 4K TV; FIOS; PS Audio Power Plant Premier; MIT S2 cables
    2. JM Labs Electra 920.1; Parasound JC2 Preamp; Sonic Frontiers Power 2 amp; Sony HAP-Z1ES; Oppo 105D; Music Hall MMF7 and Acoustech phono pre; PS Audio P1000; MIT S1 Cables
    3. Polk LSiM703; Pioneer Elite SC97 receiver; Oppo 203; Squeezebox Touch; MIT S3 cables
  • daddyjtdaddyjt Posts: 919
    Spoiler alert, Endgame is one of the largest grossing movies of all time. So yeah there is that.

    So was Titanic, at one time...

    ukojscfyj8rg.jpeg
    Too much stuff to keep track of.

    Currently enjoying: Legacy Focus 20/20, McCormack DNA 225, Bill D C1, Oppo 105
  • motorhead43026motorhead43026 Posts: 3,182
    ^^ That's right, records are for one thing to be broken.
    2 channel: Anthem 225 Integrated amp; Parasound Ztuner; TechnicsTT SL1350; Vincent PHO-8 phono pre; Marantz CD6005 spinner; Polk SDA2BTL's; Cables ZU Mission IC's, SC and power cords, all into a PS Audio Dectet Power center.

    All TV's sound enhanced by Polk Magnfi Mini's.

    Other; S60'S, M10 series II, M7C's, Hafler XL600 amp, RB-980BX, Parasound HCA-1500 amp , P5 preamp, all in storage. All speakers have had crossover rebuilds, resulting in a small fortune invested in Sonicaps, and tweeter upgrades.

    Political memes posted as fact and accepted as fact, are sign language of the ignorant, for the ignorant

    tonyb said " but even socialists can do a good thing here and there

    Social media makes dumb people dumber and smart people dumb then dumber.
  • ZLTFULZLTFUL Posts: 5,023
    Emlyn wrote: »
    The first time I remember the distributor choke hold was a few years ago with one of the Stars Wars movies and them trying to kick Amazon and others into line to maximize profit on something that was expected to be a very big seller. That was before streaming was as big a market as it is now. I suspect Amazon is perfectly happy to sell the streaming version first and they'd probably have a good legal case if they were denied access to that. If Amazon really wanted to sell the discs badly enough they'd get those for release on Tuesday too.

    Not going to quote all of your posts but this is exactly what I said it is...

    Amazon wants to set the price lower than Disney wants to allow and also take a larger chunk of the profits.
    They also want to be able to ship before the release day of the physical media (i.e. they want them arriving at the customer Monday, not Tuesday).
    Disney will have none of it.
    Disney said flat out, you sell at the same price we require everyone else to sell it at as we set prices.
    Disney also refused to let them ship if there is ANY chance the physical media will be received before their expressly stated release date.

    Endgame isn't the first time this has happened. It has been happening for about 2 or so years now with all Marvel titles on Amazon. As well as the Star Wars titles since Disney acquired that franchise.

    https://www.cinemablend.com/news/2407062/amazon-has-started-only-letting-prime-members-order-marvel-and-star-wars-movies

    Since that article was published, even Prime members are unable to pre-order any Disney titles.

    I have taken to ordering all of my Disney titles from Best Buy or Walmart...ironically, I got my copy of Endgame today...1 day ahead of the "official" release date for physical media.

    The same has happened at Family Video (Disney peeing on them to mark their territory that is).
    "Some people find it easier to be conceited rather than correct."

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  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 22,053
    edited August 13
    I am just thinking/reflecting on this idea of top-down pricing. Wasn't that outlawed in the US quite a few years (decades) ago?

    Personally, it seems to me that a manufacturer/producer/maker/whatever ought to be able to set a prix fixe (so to speak), but I also think I remember that the FTC or whomever regulates such things in the US didn't concur with me. :#

    EDIT: well, OK, maybe not? :p
    https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/competition-guidance/guide-antitrust-laws/dealings-supply-chain/manufacturer-imposed

    I also wonder what difference it makes to a consumer whether s/he gets something the day of, the day before, or the day after its release, but I know this just shows a) I'm old and b) I am no company's target demographic. :|

  • daddyjtdaddyjt Posts: 919
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    I am just thinking/reflecting on this idea of top-down pricing. Wasn't that outlawed in the US quite a few years (decades) ago?

    Personally, it seems to me that a manufacturer/producer/maker/whatever ought to be able to set a prix fixe (so to speak), but I also think I remember that the FTC or whomever regulates such things in the US didn't concur with me. :#

    EDIT: well, OK, maybe not? :p
    https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/competition-guidance/guide-antitrust-laws/dealings-supply-chain/manufacturer-imposed

    The first time I encountered this was with the Sega Genesis game console in the early 90’s, when I worked for a local discount retailer. I remember the rep telling me that we were NOT allowed to discount the sale of the Genesis under ANY circumstances. Further, doing so could jeopardize the company’s ability to sell them in the future. I also encountered this later in my career with Maytag appliances - the retail price was set by Maytag, and we were not allowed to deviate. They called it “unilateral pricing”, and again, the company’s contract would be endangered if the pricing was violated.

    Maybe there’s an angle I don’t see, but I fail to understand why the manufacturer would care what the goods sold for, once they got the sale to retailers. The only thing I can think of, is the dealer network wants protection from the larger (Walmart, Amazon) retailers ability to discount. The manufacturer therefor sets the price, to appease ALL the distributors. However, this is done at the expense of the consumer, as it eliminates competition.
    Too much stuff to keep track of.

    Currently enjoying: Legacy Focus 20/20, McCormack DNA 225, Bill D C1, Oppo 105
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 22,053
    edited August 13
    daddyjt wrote: »
    ...

    Maybe there’s an angle I don’t see, but I fail to understand why the manufacturer would care what the goods sold for, once they got the sale to retailers. The only thing I can think of, is the dealer network wants protection from the larger (Walmart, Amazon) retailers ability to discount. The manufacturer therefor sets the price, to appease ALL the distributors. However, this is done at the expense of the consumer, as it eliminates competition.

    The discounting cheapens the brand by definition, I'd opine.

    Supposed the prix fixe MSRP (i.e., manufacturer's mandatory retail price) for an item is $50, but Walmart (or Amazon) sells it for $30. It instantly becomes a thirty dollar item -- even if every other outlet in the world sells (or tries to sell) it for fifty.

    :|

  • Mikey081057Mikey081057 Posts: 6,428
    It is by definition "Price Fixing"
    My New Year's resolution is 3840 × 2160

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    ManCave: Parasound Halo A21 | Parsound Halo A52+ | Marantz AV7002 AV PrePro | Usher Dancer Mini-x DMD's | Usher BE-616 Center | SVS Ultra Surrounds | SVS SB4000 Sub | SVS SB2000 Sub | Oppo UDP 203 | MIT Shotgun S3's | PSAudio Stellar GCD | Music Hall MMF 5.3se TT w/ Soundsmith Carmen | Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ | Lumin U1 Mini | HP Elite Slice PC | ROON'd for life | Samsung 50" SUHD TV | Sony PS4

    Patio | Polk Atrium 8's | Yamaha R-N303BL |

    Office |Cocktail Audio X14 | KEF LS50 | Peactree Nova 125SE |

    Bedroom | Focal 905's | Chromecast Audio |

    Garage | Polk Monitor 5B's

    Closet Yamaha M80 | 2 Polk MP3K subs| Yaqin MC100B with Shuguang Treasures KT 88's & CV181Z's | Tesla E83CC's | Marantz 2252B | Marantz 2385 | Bluesound Node |Polk SDA SRS 2.3 |
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 22,053
    edited August 13
    It is by definition "Price Fixing"

    I kind of thought so, too, so I looked it up -- it's only considered price fixing if multiple companies (competitors) conspire to normalize their prices (e.g., if two energy companies both agreed to sell gas for $3.33 a gallon). Check that FTC link above, and also this one:


    https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/competition-guidance/guide-antitrust-laws/dealings-competitors/price-fixing

    Now, outside the US, things might be different. I know you're right on the edge of the US, but barring a severe storm or seismic activity, the FTC regulations still hold sway, I think.

    ;)
  • Mikey081057Mikey081057 Posts: 6,428
    So when multiple companies agree to fix the price of an item and a competitor would like to discount it... that's not price fixing.... I think I get it now.
    My New Year's resolution is 3840 × 2160

    HT:Polk LSiM 706 LSiM 705's VR3 LSiM 703's LSiM 702's| Marantz AV7704 | Sunfire TGA-7401 | Oppo UDP 203 | Sony PS4 Pro| Directv Genie HD DVR | Samsung 75" Q8 QLED | SVS PB13 Ultra | MIT EXP 2's (Fronts & Center)

    ManCave: Parasound Halo A21 | Parsound Halo A52+ | Marantz AV7002 AV PrePro | Usher Dancer Mini-x DMD's | Usher BE-616 Center | SVS Ultra Surrounds | SVS SB4000 Sub | SVS SB2000 Sub | Oppo UDP 203 | MIT Shotgun S3's | PSAudio Stellar GCD | Music Hall MMF 5.3se TT w/ Soundsmith Carmen | Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ | Lumin U1 Mini | HP Elite Slice PC | ROON'd for life | Samsung 50" SUHD TV | Sony PS4

    Patio | Polk Atrium 8's | Yamaha R-N303BL |

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  • Mikey081057Mikey081057 Posts: 6,428
    And if Walmart and Target (competitors) agree with Disney to keep the price fixed than isn't that price fixing?
    My New Year's resolution is 3840 × 2160

    HT:Polk LSiM 706 LSiM 705's VR3 LSiM 703's LSiM 702's| Marantz AV7704 | Sunfire TGA-7401 | Oppo UDP 203 | Sony PS4 Pro| Directv Genie HD DVR | Samsung 75" Q8 QLED | SVS PB13 Ultra | MIT EXP 2's (Fronts & Center)

    ManCave: Parasound Halo A21 | Parsound Halo A52+ | Marantz AV7002 AV PrePro | Usher Dancer Mini-x DMD's | Usher BE-616 Center | SVS Ultra Surrounds | SVS SB4000 Sub | SVS SB2000 Sub | Oppo UDP 203 | MIT Shotgun S3's | PSAudio Stellar GCD | Music Hall MMF 5.3se TT w/ Soundsmith Carmen | Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ | Lumin U1 Mini | HP Elite Slice PC | ROON'd for life | Samsung 50" SUHD TV | Sony PS4

    Patio | Polk Atrium 8's | Yamaha R-N303BL |

    Office |Cocktail Audio X14 | KEF LS50 | Peactree Nova 125SE |

    Bedroom | Focal 905's | Chromecast Audio |

    Garage | Polk Monitor 5B's

    Closet Yamaha M80 | 2 Polk MP3K subs| Yaqin MC100B with Shuguang Treasures KT 88's & CV181Z's | Tesla E83CC's | Marantz 2252B | Marantz 2385 | Bluesound Node |Polk SDA SRS 2.3 |
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 13,728
    Well then there is M.A.P. pricing.
    Minimum Advertised Price so yes you csn sell it for less but cannot "Advertise" that you do.
  • dolbyddolbyd Posts: 376
    I’m in no rush to get the disc.
    Disney has not put a good audio mix on a disc in a long time.They also stripped the IMAX Video from this release.

    I’m sure they plan to re-release everything with improved audio and the IMAX included later.
    More Money!
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  • txcoastal1txcoastal1 Posts: 10,503
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    Well then there is M.A.P. pricing.
    Minimum Advertised Price so yes you csn sell it for less but cannot "Advertise" that you do.

    These were the terms I had with Sony, Pioneer Elite and Polk when I was selling
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  • Mikey081057Mikey081057 Posts: 6,428
    txcoastal1 wrote: »
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    Well then there is M.A.P. pricing.
    Minimum Advertised Price so yes you csn sell it for less but cannot "Advertise" that you do.

    These were the terms I had with Sony, Pioneer Elite and Polk when I was selling

    They learned that from drug dealers in NJ back in the day to keep the street prices up. Only difference was if you got caught selling lower you would get a meeting with Jimmy Hoffa
    My New Year's resolution is 3840 × 2160

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  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 22,053
    edited August 13
    So when multiple companies agree to fix the price of an item and a competitor would like to discount it... that's not price fixing.... I think I get it now.

    No, that is price fixing ,assuming the 'multiple companies' are dealing in the same product ("content", in this case). Walmart and Target are (sort of) competitors, but not with Disney. Per the law regulations.
    And if Walmart and Target (competitors) agree with Disney to keep the price fixed than isn't that price fixing?

    No, it would be if Disney and (who else is left in that playspace?) Universal, or Sony, or Viacom-CBS or Netflix or whomever the heck controlled prices of their content.

    We ain't talkin' logic here -- if we were, the legal system could be much more compact. :)

    ... and, oh yes, it might get really complicated with, say Disney and Amazon (or Apple, for that matter) -- and it's gonna get worse before it gets better :/



  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 22,053
    Oh.
    And I realized, while cleaning the bathroom floor B) what I was thinkin' of in my first post to this thread was the old practice of "fair trade" -- which, I think, in the 1950s and 1960s meant something different, at least in the US, than it does now.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_fair_trade

    Companies like McIntosh (when they were a company) set "fair trade" prices -- to some extent, their owners now (the "McIntosh Group", formerly known as Fine Sounds Group) still do.

    ... and then again there are monopolies, but that's another subject entirely, ain't it? :)



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