LCD vs. DLP vs. LCOS Poll

NCrewson

Since I'm in a posting mood today I'll throw a question out to you all. For rear projection TV's or front projectors which of the three new formats do you prefer. I've seen all three in rear projection but have limited experience with front projectors. Of the ones I've seen the LCOS gave me the biggest WOW factor but it was a prototype model almost 4 years ago so my expecations from a TV was pretty low. Can't wait to see the new LCOS from intel. As long as they mate it to a good light engine and decent upconverter it should be awesome.

Nathan

Ron-P

Haven't seen any LCOS in action but between the other two, LCD is the winner. Rainbows are a killer for me and that is the biggest down fall of single chip, slow color wheel speed DLP PJ's.

You can achieve the same black levels with LCD as DLP (in my limited testing) and SDE is the same between the two.

amulford

I haven't seen any LCOS, either but I have a DLP. I don't have any problem with rainbow at all. I REALLY shopped befroe I came to the decision to get a DLP. Never looked back...:D

LuSh

In a properly lit room, that old bulky RPTV will destroy the LCD and DLP. Both are very new to the market and still strive to perform as well as a CRT in terms of contrast, depth, and grey scales. Notice how I used the word "strive".

The benefits in DLP and LCD are actually more geared to lifestyle choices...

Longer lasting
Shallow depth
Little Setup issues
No burn in
Bright Lighting in upstairs rooms

A properly converged RPTV CRT will destroy a DLP and LCD in a dark room on DVD. If you watch HD sports you'll laugh yourself silly at how bad DLP and LCD handle it Or maybe cry yourself silly if you bought it thinking it would be the latest and greatest "technology". As you can tell I can't stand either but I realize why it would suite the needs of some people. The images overall lack black levels and are very 2-D. This will of coarse change over time. When the first CD player hit the market they were absolute garbage. Even though we were all told we were buying "perfect sound". As it stands right now there is very little good about the DLP's and LCD's in terms of overall performance, but again this will change.

Lyco's was interesting. I never had a chance to see one on display but Toshiba had invested alot into it. It was said to be the best Digtial Display on Earth at one time. Toshiba could never perfect the Technology and dumped it and hit the emergency button called DLP. The failure rate off the line was almost 70-80% from what I heard.

brettw22

My TV upgrade is on hold until the LCOS comes out. It appears to be a HUGE improvement over every downfall that each LCD and DLP have in their own rights.

I've read a few articles on them and I think that they're going to take the market out from anything else that's out there right now......provided that they do it right and don't screw it up......

danger boy

CRT's still provide the best blacks.... unless that's not important to some.. it is for me.

Ron-P

A properly converged RPTV CRT will destroy a DLP and LCD in a dark room on DVD.

Destroy? Much to drastic a word.

I came off an ISF'd Mits RPTV, 46807. My LCD, calibrated with AVIA, shooting onto a gray screen gives me the same image quality less some details in the blacks. The image of my LCD FP is so identical to that of my old RPTV that friends and family that have seen it in action have said it looks just like my RPTV, just much bigger.

...and are very 2-D.

This comment is down right false.

These DLP and LCD FP are so close to RPTV image quality that I will never go back to watching a TV for HT again. They produce a beautiful image, full of depth, vibrant colors, sharp and detailed. Black levels in the last 2 years have come along way, the next two should be very, very interesting.

CRT's still provide the best blacks

This is true, but the margin of difference is closing, and fast.

I much prefer my 85" LCD FP image over my 46" Isf'd Mits for HT. Nothing puts the theater in home theater like that of a FP.

When is this LCOS due out? I plan on upgradeing to a HD-FP sometime within the next 1.5 to 2 years. Will it be out before then?

The screen shots on my website will give you a good idea at how good and LCD FP can look. Remember though, those screen shots have been greatly reduced.

Sail the Driftwood

LuSh

RON-P

My comments were based on REAR projection LCD and DLP.

As far as my 2-D imaging rant. If black levels and contrast are better on RPTV's how can the image on the LCD and DLP not be considered 2-D to begin with?

Front projectors calibrated again are much better, but are alot more expensive. Factoring in screen costs, your lookin at double the price.

Ron-P

My comments were based on REAR projection LCD and DLP.

Sorry, I missed that note. I have yet to see a LCD or DLP TV. I've only delt with FP.

As far as my 2-D imaging rant. If black levels and contrast are better on RPTV's how can the image on the LCD and DLP not be considered 2-D to begin with?

If I am reading this right, your saying that an images depth is based on it's black level? A lot more goes into a 3D image than just the level of blacks. Again, I could be reading your comment wrong.

Front projectors calibrated again are much better, but are alot more expensive. Factoring in screen costs, your lookin at double the price.

Not true. I bought my Panny LCD FP for $1,100 new. That price included tax, shipping and a 78" 16:9 matte white Da-Lilte pull down screen (which I do not use). I DIY'd my screen for a total of $50. My entire FP set up cost me 1/2 of what my RPTV did and my image is twice the size and nearly the same quality.

brettw22

Originally posted by Ron-P
When is this LCOS due out? I plan on upgradeing to a HD-FP sometime within the next 1.5 to 2 years. Will it be out before then?

The LCOS sets are supposed to hit some in the end of the year, but in full production in the next year and half. I hope to get a set with that technology because it sounds like it resolves all problems. I read a link on it on an Intel site some time ago and can post it later tonight when I find it again.......it's pretty interesting...

Ron-P

Are there plans for LCOS front projectors, or is this something slated for TV's only?

LuSh

Well Ron-P you must have the exception then. I have never seen an Front Projector under 4K that could come close to the moving resolution of a RPTV, provide the same kind of black levels and the same brightness.

And even that Front projector would have a hard time against a Toshiba HX83 or an older Pioneer Elite RPTV.

Ron-P

All I can report is what I see and what comments others have made that have seen both my PJ and RPTV.

No matter which display device you choose, you have the pros and cons to deal with. Sure a FP image from these little digital PJs will not produce an image as nice as an RPTV, but it's damn close.

For me, the slight drop in PQ is worth an image twice the size.

scottvamp

Originally posted by Ron-P
For me, the slight drop in PQ is worth an image twice the size.

That is my reason for being into FP's for the last 4 years.
Just sold the Projector and got the Toshiba 65HX83. Nothing will touch the picture quality of this unit. I have changed my ways for awhile.
RP CRT's have come ALONG WAYS in the last 4 years.
Reliablity, Quality and Price my Tosh can't be beat.
50,000 hours on the crt's.
5 year everything covered warrenty.

Not a single con -
except SIZE and that is not an issue for me.

brettw22

Originally posted by Ron-P
Are there plans for LCOS front projectors, or is this something slated for TV's only?

It sounds like the focus initially will be on RP's, but ultimately is able to be introduced to both formats.

Intel's Info

NCrewson

Actually you can get a LCOS FP right now. Just be prepared to shell out major $$. The intel version that everybody is talking about, mainly because of the price shift, is so far only slated for rear projection. As for the CRT vs. LCD or DLP in a rear. I'll say this, in my personal experience I've found that though the CRT does have a better black level I find that the increased resolution makes up for it for my tastes. However my tastes lean more to resolution than colour. I find most CRT's have to much digital artifacting and or pixalization. This of course is due to the (so far) inferior processors most companies use in their RPJ TV's as compared to the ones in the DLP or LCD. But then again they can charge more for the digital sets so they can put better processors in. As an example of that, Hitachi (who is generally looked at as a leader in rear projection TVs) designed their whole new light engine around the resolution capabilities of their LCD. This why the 1080p upconventer as it meshes better with the 720 lines of resolution that is the TVs native display.

The one LCOS rear projection I saw was a prototype from RCA (of all people), retailed for about $12,00 canadian. And though the prototype had green specks on it due to some problem or another (they wouldn't or couldn't tell us why at the time) it was amazing in its picture quality. Hopefully the new intel chip will get the proper support and it should be a real killer.

Nathan

LuSh

The noise found in DLP and LCD's (rear projection) are horrible. Try watching a sporting event on DLP or LCD. It's horrid. These technologys use a higher pixel count, like a computer monitor but when movement is introduced they can be downright awful. A RPTV has much less noise with both DVD and HDTV.

Ron-P

Just sold the Projector and got the Toshiba 65HX83.

I'm surprised after rolling off, what a 100"+ screen that you did not go with the Mits 80"+ RPTV, 65" is kinda small.

I for one will never go back to a TV after having a FP. I've got a TV in the house. I will upgrade FPs in a year or two as they are looking better and better with each year. The small size of even the largest TV just does not do HT justice.

I only watch DVD on my FP, no OTA, no cable, nothing but DVD so the PQ is always excellent. I could see however with an OTA source that the PQ would be fairly poor on a digital FP or even an LCD or DLP TV.

scottvamp

When i have my "dream house" built thier will be a FP HT room. And the technology and price will be even better. The 73"/80" is too pricey to justify compared to a projector. Over doubles the price tag. I just can't believe the picture quality on this unit. I wanted to step into the HD world and I am glad I have. Not that the image is ten times better but on my 11 foot screen your have to seat back 25 feet to get the picture quality even close to me new RP unit. And I wanted something for everyday use. Thier will be a FP later in my future and I have enjoyed my last two for the past four years. Still in the market a 65" is a bit larger than the 27inchers out thier.;)
I would have a few pics but my digital camera just took a crap. My new HT room revamp looks awesome.

Ron-P

Well damn-it Scott, get that camera fixed, I want to see the room.

I just can't believe the picture quality on this unit.

Put about 500 hours on and then get her ISF'd, then you'll really see her shine and give you an image that you won't believe.

My ISF'd Mits was awesome, produced a beautiful image. Even though my FP does not put out as good an image the super-sized picture just cannot be beat. A year later and I'm still floored every time I fire it up.

MadMilkman

I voted DLP. After seeing the Marantz 10S @ CES I can't imagine wanting anything else.

Some things to note--

Most speculation I've seen points to Intel using a color wheel to bring the price of LCOS down. Thus rainbows would once again be a problem.

3-chip DLP, albeit expensive, eliminates nearly all the problems inherent with 1-chip units. No rainbows, excellent black levels, and dithering is practically invisible. This is where the future lies, imo. Prices will drop, as they always do.

I am, of course, biased, but who isn't?

goingganzo

lcos = is allmost the same as a lcd but it is the lc on silicon hence the lcos i thinks there is a set out but is around 6-8k not sure on the price but it is in the range
i went to get my fp today but i could not find a seller with the z2 or ae500 i can get a sony 290 but it is about 1k more. i guess i might have to ge the benq 8700 or 7800

kberg

Ok, so say about a year from now, with the current trend in each technology (LCD vs. DLP vs. LCOS), what do you folks think will be the best bang for the buck?

I plan to spend about 2k for a front projector about a year from now, and I'm wondering which technology will likely advance the most even in that short of time. After doing quite a bit of research for a FP, if I were able to get one right now for my budget and a controlled lighting environment, the Sanyo Z2 looks pretty enticing, but that was also after talking to a rep at The Projector People and informing them of my viewing preferences and environment.