What receiver to power the Polk LSiM series?

Landmonster

Hi Guys.

I have my sights set on building an LSiM system. I bought the 703s, and I am impressed with them so far. I'd like to eventually move them to surround duty, and purchase 705s or 707s as mains, and build either a 5.1, 5.2, or 7.1 system.

My question is... what is the minimum wattage from a receiver to REALLY drive these properly? Does it vary by 703/705/707?

Currently I am using a Yamaha RX-A1080 receiver, which has 110wpc @ 8 ohms. I am open to returning it, and getting something stronger, if I can find a good deal.

This seems to drive my 2 703s well enough... but I am concerned about 2 things:

1) What will happen if you hook up more speakers to it... ie, 4 703s, or 2 705s + 2 703s? (right now I have just 2 703s)
2) Is 110 wpc from a Yamaha adequate to power 705s or 707s?
3) If not... is the RX-A1080 a decent receiver to keep in my system for the future, if I add a dedicated amp to go with it for my mains? (705 or 707)


Thanks.

rooftop59

You’re receiver is great! Keep it and buy a two or 5 channel amp and you’ll be golden! I would look on the used market for parasound, rotel, b&k, etc. 200 wpc is a good target, but current is more important!

Geoff4rfc

Landmonster wrote: »

1) What will happen if you hook up more speakers to it... ie, 4 703s, or 2 705s + 2 703s? (right now I have just 2 703s)
2) Is 110 wpc from a Yamaha adequate to power 705s or 707s?
3) If not... is the RX-A1080 a decent receiver to keep in my system for the future, if I add a dedicated amp to go with it for my mains? (705 or 707)


Thanks.

Welcome to the Polkvariety show.

Your question is valid for sure. 110 wpc is of course in most cases, rated for 2 channels. Once you start adding more speakers, the power supply per speaker goes down, sometimes way down.

I ran my first 7.1 set up on an AVR only rated at 135w X 2ch.

Fortunately for me, my AVR had pre-outs so I added amplifiers.

AVR only with multiple speakers has you running the risk of clipping the signal. Trying to drive a load without enough power will strain your motor so to speak.

So for now, if 2ch is good with the Yammy and 703's, keep a rocking. When you start to add your towers weather 705 or 707, bring in extra power.

Landmonster

Here's a follow up question to your post!


Let's say I bite the bullet, and soon just get a powerful Emotiva amp the power the mains, and possibly center channel and more.

In this scenario, what brand of receiver is the best choice for simply acting as a pre-amp and surround processor?

Is Yamaha Aventage be good for this, or would I be better suited looking at Denon, Marantz, or something else?



I have been kind of bummed looking at AVRs, because even the extremely expensive ones only seem to come with 150 WPC. All of the Polk afficianados seem to recommend powering the 707s with some kind of 200+ watt power amp, which basically renders that part of your AVR receiver useless.

In this scenario, what brand of receiver is top-tier/ideal?

rburgess714

Welcome to CP. The Yamaha is a fine receiver and will drive the 703s up front with no problem but once you add a center and then surrounds it will struggle, especially if you will be adding 705s. The great thing is that amp has preouts so you can add an external amp to drive the L&R and the Yamaha can drive the center and surrounds. Also note advertised wpc can be misleading and that you will not get 110 wpc per channel with all channels driven. Lots of options for amps just depends on your budget. Used B&K and Parasound offer a lot of bang for the buck.

Geoff4rfc

Landmonster wrote: »

Here's a follow up question to your post!


Let's say I bite the bullet, and soon just get a powerful Emotiva amp the power the mains, and possibly center channel and more.

In this scenario, what brand of receiver is the best choice for simply acting as a pre-amp and surround processor?

Is Yamaha Aventage be good for this, or would I be better suited looking at Denon, Marantz, or something else?



I have been kind of bummed looking at AVRs, because even the extremely expensive ones only seem to come with 150 WPC. All of the Polk afficianados seem to recommend powering the 707s with some kind of 200+ watt power amp, which basically renders that part of your AVR receiver useless.

In this scenario, what brand of receiver is top-tier/ideal?

Rooftop is in agreement with your Yamaha. I'm not familiar with it myself. I've been an Onkyo and now Integra guy.

If you're happy with the sound and the features of your Yamaha, stay with it. Does it have pre-outs for a 7.1 or more?

I chose my AVR for many reasons but I made sure I had adequate pre-outs. My current set up is an Pre-pro that will do a 9.2 but my AVR will do an 11.4.

All that being said, I happen to have all Emotiva amps, my latest is a pretty good. The XPA-DR3, a 3 ch amp that can supply 450w per channel to my mains and center.

If you're still undecided on your AVR, AC4L has some good refurbs. My last two Integras are refurbs and I have no complaints or remorse.

Geoff4rfc

Landmonster wrote: »

Here's a follow up question to your post!

In this scenario, what brand of receiver is top-tier/ideal?

I took a look at your AVR. That will be just fine as long as you're cool with a 7.1 set up. I started with that and quickly wanted more. But that was me, too much is never enough!!

What is your budget for an AVR? Would you consider a Pre possessor with external amps?? I looked over at Accessories 4 less and saw some good deals on a few different brands for both AVR's and Pre's.

afterburnt

Landmonster wrote: »

Here's a follow up question to your post!


Let's say I bite the bullet, and soon just get a powerful Emotiva amp the power the mains, and possibly center channel and more.

In this scenario, what brand of receiver is the best choice for simply acting as a pre-amp and surround processor?

Is Yamaha Aventage be good for this, or would I be better suited looking at Denon, Marantz, or something else?



I have been kind of bummed looking at AVRs, because even the extremely expensive ones only seem to come with 150 WPC. All of the Polk afficianados seem to recommend powering the 707s with some kind of 200+ watt power amp, which basically renders that part of your AVR receiver useless.

In this scenario, what brand of receiver is top-tier/ideal?

Not useless, it reserves the power for surround duty which you will need especially for the center. Everyone is gonna tell you to amp you mains at least and get a real sub. I have had at least four Yamaha AVRs and I am obviously happy with them.

F1nut

It's only home theater, it's not that demanding. Try the AVR on its own first to get a base line. Later, if you find things lacking you can an amp, something other than emo.

BlueFox

Just don’t play concert DVDs.

Landmonster

F1nut wrote: »

It's only home theater, it's not that demanding. Try the AVR on its own first to get a base line. Later, if you find things lacking you can an amp, something other than emo.

Firstly, it's not "only" home theater... I do enjoy music, and would like to get into some concert Blurays.

Also, are you saying you don't like Emotiva? If not, why not, and what else should I be looking at? I thought they were highly regarded amps.

Landmonster

afterburnt wrote: »

Not useless, it reserves the power for surround duty which you will need especially for the center. Everyone is gonna tell you to amp you mains at least and get a real sub. I have had at least four Yamaha AVRs and I am obviously happy with them.

What do you feel about the RXA 1080?

I wanted to spend less than $1,000 for the receiver, and I'd prefer it to have the latest technology for future compatibility. Ergo, I knew I was going to be limited on channels, and wattage for the price.

I chose this model (the 1080) primarily because I got a good deal on it, and the 2080 and 3080 were basically unaffordable. The 1080 seems to have all the latest features I would want.... 32-bit DAC, Dolby Atmos, DTS:X, etc.

I chose not to look at the older Yahamas (70's series or 60's series) because those models lacked the 32-bit DACs, and some of the surround formats.

My other option would be a Denon X4500h. What do you think about that one?

mdaudioguy

F1nut wrote: »

It's only home theater, it's not that demanding. Try the AVR on its own first to get a base line. Later, if you find things lacking you can an amp, something other than emo.

I do agree with this advice, with one caveat - pay attention to the sound with increasing load (# of speakers) and volume. If something starts to sound off as volume increases, that's likely distortion. The larger the room, the more folks tend to want/need more volume. When you tax more channels, you get lower output per channel, which leads to distortion and clipping, which leads you to asking how you can get new tweeters.

That said, I've heard a full 7.2 LSiM system on a slightly lesser AVR, in a medium-sized room, and it performed nicely, i.e. it would satisfy 95% of the people I know. Most of the other 5% lurk here.

Like @afterburnt and several others on here, I'm a big fan of the Yamahas, especially the Aventage series from 1xxx up. You haven't gone wrong there.

Landmonster

Thanks for all the input guys. I'm fairly impressed with the quality of responses so far here.

I realize I am kind of "all over the place", as I am trying to figure out the direction of this theater build.

So far all I have is 2 703s, and a Yamaha Aventage RX-A1080. I have the 703s bi-amped, and it seems to be doing nicely.

I envisioned getting the towers next, and moving the 703s to surround duty. Then I realized that most people are saying that regular AVRs can't adequately power the 707s.

I am wondering, among other things:

1. Do I need 705/707 towers at all, or should I just keep collecting more 703s for the surrounds, and add a center and subwoofers?
2. Should I keep this receiver for processing and surround-duty? If so, at what point do I need to add an amplifier?
3. If I don't keep this receiver, what AVR would be a better choice to replace it with for around the same cost? (new, used, or refurb)
4. What should my next speaker(s) be, if I do this in stages: a Sub / a center / 2 towers / 2 more 703s?

F1nut

Landmonster wrote: »

F1nut wrote: »

It's only home theater, it's not that demanding. Try the AVR on its own first to get a base line. Later, if you find things lacking you can an amp, something other than emo.

Firstly, it's not "only" home theater... I do enjoy music, and would like to get into some concert Blurays.

Also, are you saying you don't like Emotiva? If not, why not, and what else should I be looking at? I thought they were highly regarded amps.

Ok, home theater and surround sound concerts, still not as demanding as 2 channel.

Highly regarded!?! Yeah right. They are popular with the HT crowd because they are inexpensive compared to other multi-channel amps.

F1nut

Landmonster wrote: »

Thanks for all the input guys. I'm fairly impressed with the quality of responses so far here.

I realize I am kind of "all over the place", as I am trying to figure out the direction of this theater build.

So far all I have is 2 703s, and a Yamaha Aventage RX-A1080. I have the 703s bi-amped, and it seems to be doing nicely.

I envisioned getting the towers next, and moving the 703s to surround duty. Then I realized that most people are saying that regular AVRs can't adequately power the 707s.

I am wondering, among other things:

1. Do I need 705/707 towers at all, or should I just keep collecting more 703s for the surrounds, and add a center and subwoofers?
2. Should I keep this receiver for processing and surround-duty? If so, at what point do I need to add an amplifier?
3. If I don't keep this receiver, what AVR would be a better choice to replace it with for around the same cost? (new, used, or refurb)
4. What should my next speaker(s) be, if I do this in stages: a Sub / a center / 2 towers / 2 more 703s?

1. Since you'll be sending everything below 80Hz to the sub, towers aren't really necessary, but in case you want to play 2 channel music it might be a good idea to go with the 705's.

mdaudioguy

Whatever your preference may be. An all-bookshelf system can sound really nice, and the 703s are great bookshelf speakers. I have a bookshelf HT system, as well as a tower-based HT system, and I thoroughly enjoy them both.

Btw, "biamping" with an AVR is a gimmick. Seriously, do some searching here. All newbies want to try it (this one included many years ago) and are convinced it makes sense, but in the end, it really doesn't. If you think more power is needed, that's when you add an external amp.

Landmonster

F1nut wrote: »

Landmonster wrote: »

F1nut wrote: »

It's only home theater, it's not that demanding. Try the AVR on its own first to get a base line. Later, if you find things lacking you can an amp, something other than emo.

Firstly, it's not "only" home theater... I do enjoy music, and would like to get into some concert Blurays.

Also, are you saying you don't like Emotiva? If not, why not, and what else should I be looking at? I thought they were highly regarded amps.

Ok, home theater and surround sound concerts, still not as demanding as 2 channel.

Highly regarded!?! Yeah right. They are popular with the HT crowd because they are inexpensive compared to other multi-channel amps.

Budget is going to be a factor though. What would you recommend for a comparable price point? (new, used or refurb)

F1nut

Btw, "biamping" with an AVR is a gimmick.

Thanks Ed, I forgot to address that ghetto bi-amp BS.

rburgess714

Keep the Yamaha it’s a solid performer. I have the 1060 the predecessor of 1080 for over 2 years and use it daily. It’s a great platform to build off of.

F1nut

Landmonster wrote: »

F1nut wrote: »

Landmonster wrote: »

F1nut wrote: »

It's only home theater, it's not that demanding. Try the AVR on its own first to get a base line. Later, if you find things lacking you can an amp, something other than emo.

Firstly, it's not "only" home theater... I do enjoy music, and would like to get into some concert Blurays.

Also, are you saying you don't like Emotiva? If not, why not, and what else should I be looking at? I thought they were highly regarded amps.

Ok, home theater and surround sound concerts, still not as demanding as 2 channel.

Highly regarded!?! Yeah right. They are popular with the HT crowd because they are inexpensive compared to other multi-channel amps.

Budget is going to be a factor though. What would you recommend for a comparable price point? (new, used or refurb)

You are putting the cart before the horse.

Geoff4rfc

F1nut wrote: »

Highly regarded!?! Yeah right. They are popular with the HT crowd because they are inexpensive compared to other multi-channel amps.

Ah yes, what's highly regarded is the money I saved C'mon Jesse, I'm telling you, if you came over for a 2ch listen, it would be safe to say, I could guarantee you that you wouldn't be entirely disappointed

joecoulson

I walked out of the Emotiva HT room at Axpona. @Clipdat was with me. I was not impressed. Might have been many factors though.

joecoulson

@Landmonster I was in your shoes a couple of years back. I will ask you, do you have disposable income to dedicate to bettering your sound? If so, get you ears in front of a local dealer of higher end hifi and see what actually sounds the best to your ears. We all have our opinions on here, but what sounds good to you is most important. I will only add that it can become quite pricey chasing the best sound. More so with 2ch than HT
Good luck.

dromunds

Why not stick with the receiver you have and add a LSiM 706 Center if still on sale at Adorama for something like 75 percent off at five hundy, or the LSiM 704 for two hundy and change if the 706 is too large for your shelf, etc. I never felt the need for a sub with my 703’s but I have a smallish room - but you could add a good sub and you’d have the foundation for a nice HT. If you have the dough get the 705’s as well while Adorama is selling for such a great discount - don’t know if the LSiM’s are still on sale but that should be easy to find out, somebody here can probably supply the link. If you can’t afford the 705’s maybe pick up another pair of 703’s - as mentioned above an all LSiM bookshelf system can sound real nice assuming you don’t have to purchase stands which would make 705’s perhaps more sensible. Can’t remember if you stated how big your room is. You can keep your eyes open for a good used amp in the for sale Forum here. Hang around and get your post count up over 100 posts so can take advantage of all sales here some guys including myself will not sell to less than 100 posters to avoid problems.

Landmonster

Ok



So unless there's a major flaw that im not aware of with my receiver, I'm probably going to keep it for now, and take one of 2 routes.

Options

1). Catch the 705s or 707s on sale, and look for a deal on a good used 2ch amp. I will move the 703s to surrounds, letting the Yamaha power them. This will give me a nice 4.0 surround setup, with additional bass and amplification up front over what I have now.

#2). Add 2 more 703s for surrounds, keep my 703s up front, letting the Yamaha power all 4 of them. I will add a powered sub, which will take some of the load off the receiver. This would be a 4.1 setup, with additional bass and amplification over what I have now.


In both cases, I add bass, more power, and surround speakers. I will have a phantom center until I can afford one.


Thoughts on this?

Clipdat

You absolutely need a center channel speaker for HT.

Landmonster

dromunds wrote: »

Why not stick with the receiver you have and add a LSiM 706 Center if still on sale at Adorama for something like 75 percent off at five hundy, or the LSiM 704 for two hundy and change if the 706 is too large for your shelf, etc. I never felt the need for a sub with my 703’s but I have a smallish room - but you could add a good sub and you’d have the foundation for a nice HT. If you have the dough get the 705’s as well while Adorama is selling for such a great discount - don’t know if the LSiM’s are still on sale but that should be easy to find out, somebody here can probably supply the link. If you can’t afford the 705’s maybe pick up another pair of 703’s - as mentioned above an all LSiM bookshelf system can sound real nice assuming you don’t have to purchase stands which would make 705’s perhaps more sensible. Can’t remember if you stated how big your room is. You can keep your eyes open for a good used amp in the for sale Forum here. Hang around and get your post count up over 100 posts so can take advantage of all sales here some guys including myself will not sell to less than 100 posters to avoid problems.

See my above post. The 703s don't have enough bass for me currently. This, I need to add a sub and/or towers

I don't know if the 707s with an amp would have enough bass, but I suspect they would.

rooftop59

Landmonster wrote: »

dromunds wrote: »

Why not stick with the receiver you have and add a LSiM 706 Center if still on sale at Adorama for something like 75 percent off at five hundy, or the LSiM 704 for two hundy and change if the 706 is too large for your shelf, etc. I never felt the need for a sub with my 703’s but I have a smallish room - but you could add a good sub and you’d have the foundation for a nice HT. If you have the dough get the 705’s as well while Adorama is selling for such a great discount - don’t know if the LSiM’s are still on sale but that should be easy to find out, somebody here can probably supply the link. If you can’t afford the 705’s maybe pick up another pair of 703’s - as mentioned above an all LSiM bookshelf system can sound real nice assuming you don’t have to purchase stands which would make 705’s perhaps more sensible. Can’t remember if you stated how big your room is. You can keep your eyes open for a good used amp in the for sale Forum here. Hang around and get your post count up over 100 posts so can take advantage of all sales here some guys including myself will not sell to less than 100 posters to avoid problems.

See my above post. The 703s don't have enough bass for me currently. This, I need to add a sub and/or towers

I don't know if the 707s with an amp would have enough bass, but I suspect they would.

If this is for home theater @clipdat is right you will absolutely want a center channel, and unless you have really massive towers, you will want a sub. If it was me, I would first add a center channel and a sub and run 3.1 for a while. Then decide about surrounds an possibly an amp. I will say that I was not happy with my 703s until I got a high current amp, a rotel rob-993 @ 200 wpc. So I think either way you want an amp, but that can be down the road. I promise, when you add the amp it will be like getting new speakers.

cfrizz

Welcome to Club Polk. If your receiver has all the bells and whistles that you want it to have and you like the sound keep it. It has the necessary preouts to add separate amplification.

I'm a firm believer of amping as many channels as you want, all speakers benefit from a powerful amp whether they are playing music or movies, one is not more important than the other and both deserve the benefits of good power. The point is to have all of your speakers operating to their full potential.

As for Emotiva amps, some people on here hate them just because of some crap that happened on here with some Emo fanboys, and some just don't like the sound. Others have them powering their gear and like them just fine. Look up some posts by Loren. Most importantly, let your OWN ears be your guide.

From what I have heard, Emo's are built like tanks and the newer generations are much improved over their first offerings, and they are not as expensive as other brands, so go for it. Also take a look at Outlaw Audio amps.

Also make sure to get a sub, which benefits both music and movies and lets the drivers of your speakers focus on what they do best which is mid bass.

dromunds

get the 704 Center for a bit over two Bills on sale it’s a nice Center and if you’re on a budget it will fit the bill nicely