B&K preamp question

geppy1

I am thinking maybe about going back to B&K gear. I have had the PT3 and Reference 5 tuner preamps and thought the 3 was OK and the 5 pretty good. I will point I am not into separates and all the endless combination and variables. I did not like them when I worked in the audio bizz and that has not changed Prefer integrateds but do know I have liked B&K

From a sound perspective is the Reference 30 a better sounding unit the them Ref 5 I know it sold for 4 times as much and has about a million video inputs none of which I would ever use but I have understood it is a very good sounding unit Any experience with these from anybody? Thanks

DaveHo

Your impression of the Ref30 is the same that I have heard. Makes a great 2 channel preamp. I know others here have used it. Hopefully someone with actual experience will chime in.

geppy1

Thanks I am trying a reference 30 and my favorite B&K power amp the 2140. Problem is other then power will they outdo my Exposure 2010s integrated which I have to admit I have been hard pressed to find anything that sounds quite like it.

tonyb

The reference series of B&K gear is a step up from anything they offered previously. That said, the Ref 30 will have better sound, but not leaps and bounds better. Still, for the 2-300 bones they go for, not bad at all.

audioluvr

Tony knows. I picked up my Reference 50 on his recommendation and it's very good!

geppy1

Hi My question still stands Is the Reference 30 any better for two channel them a Reference 5 ?
I have the Ref 30 here now to try and it is WAY more complicated then the Ref 5 and does everything but flush the toilet Problem is I am not into home theater or DACs so 95% of its features I could care less about and going through an 84 page manual is brutal. For example I have tried to set all analog inputs to the basic STEREO 2 speakers LARGE I do NOT want analog signals being processed by a A/D converter How do I know?? Does not sound like it but the 24/96 light is lit. I thought there was supposed to be a Audio bypass on this which bypasses any processing?? ??

audioluvr

I can only elaborate but I believe you will want to go with the newer model which should be the Ref 30. Also no DAC converts analog to digital. Only digital to analog and the newer version would be the better one (generally) in the B&k line. As for all the cr ap that you're not using. Don't worry about it. We can walk you through it. You can always use the inboard DAC as a reference for things like CD players or Streamers later on

msg

Keith, I can't see the Ref 30 being a better fit than the Ref 5 if you only plan to use analog, or are a purist in any way.

One of the points of a Ref 30 or Ref 50 is for the DAC at minimum, and then for the additional connectivity, processing, and control options these units offer over a preamp. Indeed, they are more complicated.

Bass management would be another feature you may want, for example. If you're not using a sub, again, this won't matter. On the Ref 5, by contrast, bass management is hard set at 80Hz with separate high pass, low pass, and full-range preout jacks. On the processors, the frequency is adjustable as well as the slope for both high pass and low pass, so you can control how much bleed-over there is.

Presuming you're connecting all sources to the Ref 30 by analog, I think what you're looking for is DIRECT mode. Do you have the B&K remote? One enters DIRECT mode by pressing STEREO + 8.

From Page 40 of the B&K Ref 30 manual...


I'm attaching the B&K Reference 30 Manual here as .pdf in case you don't already have it. Handy to use the .pdf for searching (Ctrl+F, enter term)

I can't say, personally, whether there will be a noticeable difference in audio quality running a Ref 30 in DIRECT against a Ref 5. I'd think they'd be pretty close. My Ref 5 has been on a shelf in the spare room as of late. I stream my audio and use the onboard DAC on Ref 50 and AVR 507s.

Gerres26

Listen to @msg , he helped me get through setting up my reference 30 when I first picked it up. Also, most people believe that the ref 30 is a step up from the ref 5 even for just 2 channel listening. I tend to agree as I found the ref 5 to be a little too much in the bass department and it wasnt as musical as the ref 30. You will want the pre/pro set to the "direct" mode to bypass any processing.

msg

That's good feedback, Danny. While having similar units, as noted, I've not personally A/B'd the two. That's interesting on the bass. Something I'll listen for in the future.

In my case, the additional functionality and connectivity of the processors offers flexibility I prefer, making them a better fit. I use these in combo systems, not straight 2ch.

geppy1

Thanks OK I have mine set at 2 speakers so you are saying got to 8 on each analog source

msg

No, you're fine with the setup of 2 speakers on each.
That's how I have mine set as well.

That 8 thing is for setting the mode. It's independent of the inputs setup. Think of it similarly to switching modes on a modern AVR to something like Cinema, Hall, Direct, etc.

Which remote do you have? Is it one of the URC MX series like this?

If so, and it's set to factory, you get to DIRECT by pressing STREO and then 8.


If not, I just figured out you can do this from the front panel, as well.
Here's how:

1. Press MODE
2. Then press UP or DOWN until you get to the 8th option. (You'll see the options in this table on the display.) When you get to 8, it will show DIRECT on the display. I think this is what you're after.
3. That's it, no more buttons to lock it in or anything. The display will settle out after
   a few seconds.

msg

Side note, I just did this on my 507 in the home office setup to see what it was like, not expecting much. I have a Raspberry Pi based piCorePlayer/Squeezelite player connected here. It has its own DAC (Hifiberry DAC+) and connects to the 507 with analog outs.

When I set it to DIRECT, there was a noticeable bump in volume, and I want to say a slight increase in clarity. I did this a couple of times to be sure. Seemed to sound a little bit flatter and a touch congested in regular STEREO mode. I'm gonna have to experiment with this. Interesting. It was probably not analog isolated as I thought before. It was probably going Analog-Digital-Analog (A/D/A) before. I've read about this, but can't remember whether it was in one of the B&K manuals. Presuming DIRECT removes all digital processing as desired?

Also, as with any direct mode, tone controls are disabled.

msg

geppy1 wrote: »

Thanks OK I have mine set at 2 speakers so you are saying got to 8 on each analog source

msg wrote: »

No, you're fine with the setup of 2 speakers on each.
That's how I have mine set as well.

That 8 thing is for setting the mode. It's independent of the inputs setup. Think of it similarly to switching modes on a modern AVR to something like Cinema, Hall, Direct, etc.

To clarify, that initial setting at 2 speakers is for the system setup of the Inputs. That's separate from this mode change.

I have all my inputs set up for:

• Stereo
• 2 speakers
• Surround (not active when set to stereo)
• Component Video Off

Ha, just noticed that DIRECT also disables the sub.
That was probably my "congestion" and "clarity" difference earlier.

geppy1

OK By setting all analog inputs to (8 (Direct) All my inputs now display DIRECT 2 and the 24/96 light is out Not sure about video

Last night they were set to (2) and the display was STEREO 2

I can tell you I listened through headphone last night and then now using same disc
The sound in the DIRECT 2 mode which turns the 24/96 light out is slightly
warmer and the bass fuller
Last night in STEREO 2 and that light lit the sound was very clear and maybe a little lean I kept feeling like it was just a bit light in the bass It sounded it bit processed and that is why I asked Not bad mind you

Question is what was it doing when it was in STEREO 2 and that 24/96 was lit versus now??

I just want to make sure it is set to its best when i go to compare the the Exposure 2010s integrated

I did not get a remote with it but order a used Theater Master SL 9000 from Ebay which is supposed to be the remote it came with

msg

Nice, man, good job. That's good info on your observations.

This is an interesting thread. I didn't even know DIRECT was an option. I saw mention of it a couple of times, but it wasn't obvious on how to enable it. Took me a while to figure out HEADPHONE too. (STREO + 0)

I'm thinking when you're in STEREO 2 with analog inputs coming in, you may be getting A/D/A conversion. It could be taking that input signal, running it through the digital side. It would make sense with the 24/96 light on. Is this what all AVRs and Processors do with analog input signals unless a direct mode is engaged?

Re: the remote, I see yeah. That'll be the easiest. The URC remotes require programming. B&K issued a preconfigured MX with the AVR and Ref 50, I think(?). The URC MX remotes also burn through batteries since the display is always on.

geppy1

"I'm thinking when you're in STEREO 2 with analog inputs coming in, you may be getting A/D/A conversion. It could be taking that input signal, running it through the digital side. It would make sense with the 24/96 light on. Is this what all AVRs and Processors do with analog input signals unless a direct mode is engaged?"

I think this is a bingo and that is why I opened this thread I knew the light was a clue but my ears were also telling me that something was different Still not sure which is better? Opinions??

msg

Keith, I apologize - earlier when you asked about setting all the Inputs to Speaker option 8...
I was mistaken, I thought that was more for just setting up the number of speakers. It's not just for that. It turns out that you can actually set up each input to be in DIRECT mode by setting option 8 under the speaker setup for each input. Does this make sense?

If you leave it in STEREO 2, you'd have to either save a PRESET for the Input/Direct, or you'd have to change it every time.

So, you were right in your initial thinking on that - you can preset all your inputs to be in DIRECT if you want.

Also, you alluded to the A/D/A suspicion in your earlier post. Seems like the same to me, as well.

msg

I'd only run STEREO 2 (possible A/D/A conversion) for 2ch if you think you might want to use Tone Controls or a sub.

If you can run DIRECT, I'd be going that route. Maybe swap back to STEREO 2 after a while and see what you think. Just seems like an unnecessary layer if you don't need it.

Side note: DIRECT doesn't seem to work with digital input, by the way - just tested it with USB to S/PDIF into the 507 - but that would make sense if it's supposed to be an all analog path.

Conradicles

My guess is that whatever you get, you will sell it

geppy1

And the comedy begins

kharp1

Conradicles wrote: »

My guess is that whatever you get, you will sell it

And Verb or I will buy it!

audioluvr

If your inputs are set to 2 channel stereo, just press the "mode" button on your front panel and hit the up button. This should switch between stereo and direct and should display "Input name" "DIRECT" "2" You should be able to do this while playing music to A/B which you prefer. Honestly I'm not sure I can hear any difference but then again I have the Ref 50 and it says that it automatically detects whether a signal is digital or analog and routes it accordingly.