Clearaudio Concept vs ...

jdjohn

I have an opportunity to get a used Clearaudio Concept turntable w/matching MC cartridge for <$1,000 USD. Cartridge purportedly has <50hrs on it. I think this is a good 'value', but I'm not sure if I will gain anything sonically over my existing vintage tt's.

I've read about the Clearaudio Concept tt with its magnetic tonearm bearing. Sounds like a novel idea, but is it practical? I read where one owner had one of the magnets come unglued Also, setting anti-skate is done from underneath the chassis by turning a slotted disk at the bottom of tonearm pillar that has no markings for reference. This doesn't seem to be a particularly heavy turntable either, which IMO makes a difference.

Here are some of my existing tt's for comparison:
Logic DM-101 w/Grace 704 arm
Kenwood KD-500 w/Mayware Formula 4 arm
CEC DD-8200
Duals - 721, 1249, 1229Q
Various others

I guess I have a bit of FOMO (fear of missing out) here, so looking for some reason to either go for it, or ignore it.

I also found a Revolver Rebel w/Jelco SA-250ST arm for $250, which seems a bit more practical. I mean, as practical as you can be when you're considering adding yet another turntable to your collection

joecoulson

That and the p8 are on my short end game table list (end game for me)
Do it!

Clipdat

Hard pass.

nooshinjohn

joecoulson wrote: »

That and the p8 are on my short end game table list (end game for me)
Do it!

I once thought as you do. Now I am listening to a TriangleART with a Goldfinger V2. I kept going in this rabbit hole until I hit rock bottom.

VR3

Not be an enabler... If you can buy it, try it, and sell it for what you paid or more... Do it! 😁

displayname

Clearaudio has some hardcore fans, and as you go up the line they seem to really become a major part of the conversation. I've read a few consistent things about the concept line. 1 - This table in particular tends to play best with Clearaudio carts, so if you like to swap carts it might not be the strongest choice, but apparently they have good synergy together. 2 - The magnet tone arm needs a very stable platform. I've heard is more susceptible than average to footfalls. No issue if you have a slab foundation, but I've heard of people with bouncy floors either upgrading up to a traditional tone arm or going in another direction.

motorstereo

That's less than I paid for my CA Emotion some 15 years ago without a cart. I've never had a problem with the magnetic anti skate and I haven't adjusted mine since the initial set up all those years ago. I've had 3 different carts on it and they've all tracked very well with no footfalls ever. Even the occasional dumbell or weight drop on my floor doesn't register.
That seems like an excellent deal to me for an operational CA Concept. Good thing it's not local to me as it would already be set up in my listening room.

mhardy6647

I'm reading good things about the new(est) morph of the P8.
As in, best ever from Rega:

https://hifihaven.org/index.php?threads/it-has-arrived.4623/
https://hifihaven.org/index.php?threads/rega-planar-8-first-impressions.4646/


("setup" photo from the first link above)

I cannot comment on the Concept, but I have a Marantz TT-15S1 (in essence, a slightly tarted CA Emotion) and it looks nice, but it's thoroughly mediocre. Put it back in its box years ago and went (very) vintage direct drive.

The early Sony DDs will make one rethink all of one's biases against DD -- FWIW.

joecoulson

nooshinjohn wrote: »

joecoulson wrote: »

That and the p8 are on my short end game table list (end game for me)
Do it!

I once thought as you do. Now I am listening to a TriangleART with a Goldfinger V2. I kept going in this rabbit hole until I hit rock bottom.

Shhhhh

joecoulson

But Jody, if you get it, I might need to come hear it...

dromunds

mhardy6647 wrote: »

I cannot comment on the Concept, but I have a Marantz TT-15S1 (in essence, a slightly tarted CA Emotion) and it looks nice, but it's thoroughly mediocre. Put it back in its box years ago and went (very) vintage direct drive.

Pass

displayname

motorstereo wrote: »

That's less than I paid for my CA Emotion some 15 years ago without a cart. I've never had a problem with the magnetic anti skate and I haven't adjusted mine since the initial set up all those years ago. I've had 3 different carts on it and they've all tracked very well with no footfalls ever. Even the occasional dumbell or weight drop on my floor doesn't register.
That seems like an excellent deal to me for an operational CA Concept. Good thing it's not local to me as it would already be set up in my listening room.

Magnetic antiskate isn't an issue. Those can work beautifully. The Concept table with the base level concept tonearm uses a floating magnetic tone arm. Very interesting concept, but there is good reason that the tech doesn't scale up to their higher end tonearms. It's very sensitive.



The Concept table has an upgrade option to the Satisfy tone arm, which is a traditional gimbal design, and avoids the issues of the magnetic bearings.

mhardy6647 wrote: »

I'm reading good things about the new(est) morph of the P8.
As in, best ever from Rega:

https://hifihaven.org/index.php?threads/it-has-arrived.4623/
https://hifihaven.org/index.php?threads/rega-planar-8-first-impressions.4646/


("setup" photo from the first link above)

I cannot comment on the Concept, but I have a Marantz TT-15S1 (in essence, a slightly tarted CA Emotion) and it looks nice, but it's thoroughly mediocre. Put it back in its box years ago and went (very) vintage direct drive.

The early Sony DDs will make one rethink all of one's biases against DD -- FWIW.

P8 looks like an outstanding table, and would be end game for most people I think. But that's also a completely different design principle and price class than the Clearaudio Concept.

jdjohn

Thanks for all the input. As usual, we have a 100% consensus!

A couple of 'Passes', a few 'Go for its', but also an exciting new development that Trey @VR3 is willing to buy it from me! Trey getting a turntable...hell must have frozen over!

I also read that using a CA cartridge is best for these. I could live with that, although it would be a big change for me to not be swapping carts around. But I also swap turntables around, so could keep my fix. I'm on a slab, so no footfall issues, and the seller of this one is including an Auralex isolation platform as well as the dustcover.

Joe, you are always welcome to come up! If I get this, though, you may need to bring your checkbook Your end-game may be closer than you think, but there may be a bidding war between you and Trey!

There's also a JVC QL-10 down in Huntsville for a grand, which may be more up @dromunds and @mhardy6647 's alleys.

dromunds

Lol. I've never spent a grand on a TT.

dromunds

I'll throw this out there: Not familiar with your Mayware Formula 4 arm, but you mentioned the Jelco 250 arm. My avatar shows my Denon DP-72 with a Grace 707 arm. I now have a Jelco 750 arm on that Denon. I would think the 750 is a big jump from the Jelco 250, and the price of a 750 on occasional sale can be very good if you are patient. I got mine from a Canadian dealer at a really good price on sale. Would your Kenwood KD-500 be amenable to the Jelco 750 arm? There may even be a newer iteration of the Jelco since I purchased mine, I haven't kept up. There are some upgrades to the Jelco's such as a Shuggie collar, etc. Just a thought, others can chime in, as there are other happy Jelco fan-boys on the forum.

mhardy6647

dromunds wrote: »

Lol. I've never spent a grand on a TT.

oh, I have.

Again, I can only vouch for one CA cartridge; the one I have (Virtuoso Ebony) -- I found it profoundly unimpressive. Their higher-end (MC) cartridges seem to get good press, though.

nooshinjohn

I have had the Stradivari V2, Titanium V2, and now the Goldfinger V2, and they have all been very good, but the GF is the best by far.

motorstereo

I've also had 3 CA carts and found them all good performers Alpha, and Beta S, which are mm and John's old Strad which is easily the best of my bunch.
Hopefully you're able to swing this deal.

jdjohn

dromunds wrote: »

Lol. I've never spent a grand on a TT.

Me either...yet. I mentioned that JVC QL-10 since it looks so similar to your Denon, and is also a DD.

My current armboard/plate on the KD-500 won't accept a Linn mounting pattern such as a Jelco arm. The Logic DM-101 will, though...I think. Some of this custom stuff is still rather new to me. My DM-101 is actually my current favorite manual deck. I finally got the suspended chassis hanging correctly so it bounces and jiggles. I love the Grace 704 arm on it, but it doesn't have anti-skate. I'd like to try a Jelco arm, but I'm afraid many of them are too heavy for most of my cart collection. Perhaps one of their "L" arms would work since they seem to be a bit lighter.

Btw, the Mayware Forumula 4 arm is a super-light, straight unipivot arm for high-compliance carts.

displayname

Hopefully it lives up to the hype! I know I've been very happy with vinyl investments. The upside of a current production model with a strong brand name is that even if you're not impressed, you shouldn't have any issues passing it on to someone else. But people are usually pretty happy with their Clearaudio tables - so I think you're in for some fun!

nooshinjohn

motorstereo wrote: »

I've also had 3 CA carts and found them all good performers Alpha, and Beta S, which are mm and John's old Strad which is easily the best of my bunch.
Hopefully you're able to swing this deal.

Where do you live Motor? I would love to have you hear what the Goldfinger can do.

motorstereo

I'm in Ct. and sadly I believe we live on opposite coasts John. Yes indeed I would love to hear that Goldfinger! I cannot imagine anything sounding better than the Strad but I believe you as you would know having owning both carts at the same time. That Goldfinger must nothing short of amazing.

joecoulson

jdjohn

What happens when you pull Goldfinger's finger?

I don't know...need a good punchline for that.

msg

I don't have a punchline, but the word "nuggets" immediate came to mind.
And now I wish it hadn't.

jdjohn

With congratulations from some, and chagrin from others, I popped on this.

Build quality was, frankly, better than I expected. The main platter is nice and solid, but I can say the composite sub-platter leaves a little to be desired. The tonearm is substantial, and probably the heaviest I have used in my short tt career...clearly better for low compliance cartridges. I have more experience with lighter arms and high-compliance carts. The seller included the CA Clever Clamp as you can see, as well as the Auralex isolation platform. He also gave me several albums from his collection, including a few new 180/200g pressings from the likes of Miles Davis (Kind of Blue), among others. He also included the (optional) dust cover for the tt. Really nice guy, he had a new McIntosh C-2600 tube pre feeding a Mac 275 tube power amp going into Revel towers and sub...sounded gorgeous.

Once I got the tt home, I noticed that speed was a bit off according to strobedisk. The fine-tune speed adjustment is done from underneath but I got it sorted. The stock platter has no mat, so I added a composite particle rubber/cork mat...I just don't like the idea of vinyl-on-metal.

Regarding the sound, it is the best *overall* vinyl playback I've had so far in my system. I feel certain that the cartridge is the most responsible improvement. Look, we're talking about a high-quality MC cartridge with a micro-line diamond mounted on a Boron cantilever...what's not to love? Clearly, it's a great match with the heavier arm on the CA Concept; recommended VTF for the cart is 2.2g. Honestly, I doubt I will move this cartridge to other tt rigs in my collection, so I may never know how the cart fares in other environs. But with its matching CA arm and deck, it sounds QUITE good IMO. A person might say the bass is a little light, and I can't DISagree with that, but where does one draw the line between tight and light bass?

Here is the supporting cast ATM:

Phono pre: Rogue Audio Triton
Line-stage pre: Eastern Electric BBA/tube buffer
Power amp: Symphonic Line RG1MK3 (chrome face if you haven't figured that out)
Focal/JM Lab Mezzo Utopia floorstanders

joecoulson

Awesome Jody! Happy for you. Looks fantastic too

jdjohn

Thanks, Joe. I forgot to mention the WAF. She looked at it and said, "Oh, so pretty. I like the chrome." "Well, actually honey...oh, nevermind."

joecoulson

Lol!

halo

jdjohn wrote: »

Thanks, Joe. I forgot to mention the WAF. She looked at it and said, "Oh, so pretty. I like the chrome." "Well, actually honey...oh, nevermind."

Happy wife, happy life!

jdjohn

True dat!

Ok, after tweaking the impedance loading, this rig has plenty of nice, full bass.