LSiM703 vs. KEF LS50

tlainhart

I alternate between my LSi15s and my LS50s. Two Schiit Vidar monoblocks drive the speakers and (as multiple folks have said), the LSi15s really take off with that extra power. The speakers are well-placed in the room, and I've got treatment at the various reflection points.

Of course, both speakers sound different, which is why I'll swap between the two. Both have a lot going for them, in different ways.

Given the recent deals on the 703s, I'm considering getting a pair. As I age and consider down-sizing, I'm thinking more along the lines of 703s, rather than the 705s. I've looked towards the 705s for a while, but I don't think I can take on another set of towers, esp. when the LSi15s seem a difficult sale. Maybe the 703s will get me some of the refinement that the 705s are said to have over the LSi15s.

Has anyone heard the 703s compared to the LS50s? What I'm missing in the LS50s (compared to the LSi15s) is the fullness in the mids. The LS50s may be more accurate, esp. wrt to vocals and placement, but the LSi15s do nice things with those mids and upper-end.

dromunds

How big is your room? What kind of music do you play? Where are you located vis a vis sale potential/price of LSi15's or LS50's?

tlainhart

Room is ~13x26. Listening area is about half that, so say 13x13, with speakers positioned away from the short wall, and seating ~8 feet from stands/towers.

Music is mainly jazz and classical, with other genres occasionally. I'm in Central MA.

dromunds

Ah, perhaps like being in Central Wisconsin as far as local sales potential for LSi-15's, (but you never know) and shipping is cost-prohibitive of course. I just recently went to a friend's place and we did an A/B with a pair of pretty well-regarded speakers and I was really surprised how well the LSi-15's held up. After a long break-in period, I came to quite like the LSiM-703's for the price and think they sound particularly good with acoustic instruments and piano, etc. In a smaller area I was quite amazed at the low end those bookies produce. I consider them the best bang for the buck out there at $600/pr. Definite step-up from the LSi's, completely re-designed. Have no experience with KEF LS50's however.

tlainhart

Thanks @dromunds. You're right that shipping/insurance is cost-prohibitive (even though I still have the original boxes - can't recall if the styrofoam is hosed).

Believe it or not, I quite like the LSi7s. I have them in a small system in the basement, and their sonics work for me.

The LS50s are nice - imaging is their strong suit, and bass is pretty good. They seem like a "neutral" speaker compared to the LSi series. But I like both for different reasons.

At $600 I should spring for the 703s and see how they sound in my environ. Perhaps they fill the gap between the neutral LS50 and the "warmer" LSi series.

dromunds

I am also a fan of the LSi-7's.

WLDock

This is a tough one.

Myself, I've never owned the KEF products (Wellbut have listened to them at a shows over the years. I'm fond of the LS50 wireless and they are on my want list in my fantasy (Still working on WAF) living room 2 ch system. Nevertheless, the 703's I've had in my TV room and they were great performers given the $500 I payed for them.

For me I would have to have a sub with either the 703, LS50, or LS50W if they are going to be my main music speaker. The 703 have a boosted midbass while the KEF is more flat in the midbass-mid response. Different designs and both are fun to listen to. I listen to jazz as well as a lot of other stuff. Like one of my favorite CD's Introduction by Mr Fingers (Larry Heard). It has a jazzy, acid sound but its undertones are slow Chicago style, deep, chill, etc House music. So, i need to have that bottom fullness at times.

My wife won't allow towers in the living room as I have them in the family room. She wants small and simplicity, so the LS50W appeal to me for many reasons. However, my dream would be to have a cool hybrid integrated amp mated with a 2-3 different bookies and a sub with room correction. The Philharmonic Audio BMR Philharmonitor, Dynaudio, LS50 (or custom Kef / Soundfield Audio Monitor 1).

I'm not sure I helped as you would have to do a side by side to know which you could live with.

K_M

Have heard all of these and have owned a few..lol

Lsi15....Great mids and highs, very smooth and listenable. a tad laid back.
Bass a bit boomy and lacking in deep bass.

703's Great mids and highs, but for sure a bit brighter than Lsi15'
Bass very nice, but of course lacking in deep bass.

Kef LS50 Does a lot great, clarity, imaging and so on, but not sure they totally live up
to the hype.
Not great at loud levels or deep bass at all.

My choice.......703's but with a decent musical sub.
Lsi9's but with a decent musical sub.

tlainhart

Thanks @WLDock and @K_M . I agree with you both that a sub really helps with these bookshelves. Ideally two. Unfortunately, the only sub I have at the moment is the PSW 505, which I've not been able to get to sound well in my environment.

I've had my eye on a REL T7i subwoofer - that may be the next purchase (behind the 703s).

@K_M - your sig lists LSi15s. Have you modded these at all?

tonyb

Keep an eye out for an SVS sb2000 also, very fast and musical, no problem keeping up with both 2 channel or HT.

You still have a decent sized room, even though your listening area is smaller, sound is still going to cover the whole room. LS50's may be a bit small for that room. If you use bookies, any of them suggested, a subwoofer is going to help immensely. IMHO, the 505 isn't going to cut the mustard musically.

WLDock

tlainhart wrote: »

I've had my eye on a REL T7i subwoofer - that may be the next purchase (behind the 703s).

The REL's are nice but $999 for an 8" sub? The 703 have some midbass punch, so you want a sub that has some bass weight. Can make them sound like large towers.

Rythmik F12 12" $700 - $1109 |
Rythmik L12 12" - $539 - $569
HSU Research - ULS-15 MK2 15" - $779
MartinLogan Dynamo 12" - $599 - $1099(Room correction)
SVS SB-3000 13" - $999
SVS SB-2000 12" - $699
SVS SB-1000 12" - $499
Power Sound Audio S1510/DF 15" - $949-$1049
Seaton Sound JS-12 12" - $1095 - $1295
Outlaw Audio Ultra-X12 - 12" $679

Maybe even dual 10" - 12" subs for the price of a single 8" REL. Integration is the key to musical blending and effortlessness to the sound.

tlainhart

Thanks for the advice on subwoofers, and the listing. The work of subwoofers for 2-channel systems is new to me.

erniejade

I have had kef ls50 & the 50w. The 50W is the better sounding of the 2. It is much warmer sounding vs the non powered 50's. Only reason i mentioned the 50W is because someone else mentioned them. On the 50's i agree with KM. They get a bit hot in top pushed but, the 50W doesn't.

I have also had polk lsi9 , lsim 705 and currently have the lsi25. All were good sounding in different ways.

The lsim 703 are also a good sounding speaker especially for the money. It will give you a better top end and a bit more fwd mid vs your 15's but, your 15's will probably have a bit more on the bottom. As others have stated, a sub would be great with them.

WLDock

Linking these just in case If you have not seen them. Some are redundant.

https://audiophilereview.com/subwoofers/what-audiophiles-are-getting-wrong-about-subwoofers.html

http://www.soundoctor.com/whitepapers/subs.htm

https://kenrockwell.com/audio/stereo-subwoofers.htm

https://rel.net/stereo-paired-subwoofer-guide/

https://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-setup

PS Audio videos on subwoofers
https://www.youtube.com/user/sharanelani/search?query=subwoofers

K_M

erniejade wrote: »

I have had kef ls50 & the 50w. The 50W is the better sounding of the 2. It is much warmer sounding vs the non powered 50's. Only reason i mentioned the 50W is because someone else mentioned them. On the 50's i agree with KM. They get a bit hot in top pushed but, the 50W doesn't.

I have also had polk lsi9 , lsim 705 and currently have the lsi25. All were good sounding in different ways.

The lsim 703 are also a good sounding speaker especially for the money. It will give you a better top end and a bit more fwd mid vs your 15's but, your 15's will probably have a bit more on the bottom. As others have stated, a sub would be great with them.

Add this to the mix.....the confusion over what is good or great or what draws one to simply want to listen to music more....

We paired a sub with our Rti6's and found them bright, tamed the treble a bit with a resistor change, and as weird as this sounds, it is the set up I find myself "Wanting to listen to stuff on" more than anything else we own now.

Not saying it is the best, but just appeals.

tlainhart

erniejade wrote: »

I have had kef ls50 & the 50w. The 50W is the better sounding of the 2. It is much warmer sounding vs the non powered 50's. Only reason i mentioned the 50W is because someone else mentioned them. On the 50's i agree with KM. They get a bit hot in top pushed but, the 50W doesn't.

I heard this elsewhere about the 50w - maybe the DSP? Thing is, I'm not interested in the wireless part and have trouble imagining that I ever would, being an analog guy (need to fill out my sig). Looking for something that takes wires.

I should add that I do listen to redbook, but I've got already got a DAC for that that I like (Yggdrasil).

erniejade

Since you stated you want more out of the mids, I say go for the 703's. Sound wise, I think they will give you what you like about the LSI15 and the mid that is a little more fwd like the kef without sounding analytical. If you find you want a hair more bass, sell the KEF's and buy a sub. I think their might be a nice sealed sub on the for sale forum for a good price right now.

WLDock

tlainhart wrote: »

I heard this elsewhere about the 50w - maybe the DSP? Thing is, I'm not interested in the wireless part and have trouble imagining that I ever would, being an analog guy (need to fill out my sig). Looking for something that takes wires.

Here's a one out of a million cases why you have to hear them for yourself. Kef, went back to work on the LS50's and came up with the LS50W. Think of them as LS50 2.0/Amplified/DSP/JUST BETTER//!!#

Check out these reviews and feedback, there are TONS of vinyl guys with the LS50W. Also, Kef demoed the speakers at shows (That's where I listened to them) with a turntable connected to appease the analog lovers out there. Just think about this...the speakers are very revealing and have a great sound stage. Now, add in what vinyl brings to the table.... = GREAT SOUND! Forget about the Wireless label... KEF just added in more convinces and better sound, analog inputs included. You have to hear them for yourself....you just might sell off what you have and simplify?



https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2017/10/28/review-kef-ls50-wireless-roon-shinola-runwell/

https://youtu.be/FuNwlSYDEac

https://youtu.be/IVJ9kvHF6yU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPbPLJmMaJs

https://youtu.be/ks2sGM8y7as

https://youtu.be/5rJo-0n1ous

https://youtu.be/sPxmyfb2Bx0

tlainhart

Thanks @WLDock . I see the RCAs in the back of that speaker. It looks like I can take the single-ended outs from my pre-amp, and feed into those RCA inputs.

pyrocyborg

I never heard the LS50, but I heard other KEF (Q and R series) and they're great speakers. Plus, the LS50 are kind of "interesting" in design. That being said, I might be wrong, but I think they do not come with grilles, if that's a thing you need.

However, considering the outgoing sales, the 703 are though to beat, especially if you really like the older LSi sound. The KEF might be better speakers, but, at least here in Canada, the price is a tad higher too (by at least 20-30%).

I now own both the 705s and the 703s and I'm not sure you should be worried of losing something when going with the 703s: A subwoofer will take care of everything under 60 or 80 hz anyway, and while the 703s with a subwoofer won't exactly sound the same than the 705s with the same subwoofer, I doubt you'll be missing much to justify paying more than twice the price. That being said, unless I am mistaken, setting a subwoofer without a receiver might be harder to do than simply using the crossover setting. If you own a stereo receiver, then it should be "easy" enough.

Still, you'll have to hear both the LSiM and the KEF to make up your mind.

tlainhart

Thanks @pyrocyborg - I appreciate hearing about the diminishing differences between the 705s and 703s, as I think that the 705s might be too big at this stage of the game. You're right that the LS50s are grill-less.

I know very little about subwoofers, but my understanding is that many of them expect to be connected to the speaker outs of your amp (assuming you don't have an LFE output on your amp, which I don't). At least the REL I read about recommended this.

halo

I would add the KEF R300 to your list. They are being phased out so, if you can find them, these are excellent speakers that will give you the KEF signature sound with some added oomph in the bottom end (may not need a subwoofer).

WLDock

KEF R300 = NICE! That's a great choice as well.

K_M

WLDock wrote: »

KEF R300 = NICE! That's a great choice as well.

Heard good things about these, but have NOT heard them.
In this day and age, hard to find enough friends that even have stereo equipment etc.

tlainhart

R300s - hmmm. This has become more complicated. Even though the R300s are being closed out (in favor of the R3), the 703s are still half the price of the R300s.

Clipdat

tlainhart wrote: »

R300s - hmmm. This has become more complicated. Even though the R300s are being closed out (in favor of the R3), the 703s are still half the price of the R300s.

https://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/kefr300gb/kef-r300-r-series-6.5-bookshelf-speakers-gloss-black-pair/1.html

I've seen them drop to $999 on here before.

WLDock

tlainhart wrote: »

R300s - hmmm. This has become more complicated. Even though the R300s are being closed out (in favor of the R3), the 703s are still half the price of the R300s.

Well, the 703's are a no brainer at $600 unless there are other ~$600 speakers that have a sound you are after. Examples:

ELAC Uni-Fi UB5
Kef Q350
SVS Prime
Ascend Acoustics CMT-340 SE
HSU research CCB-8
Martin Logan Motion 15
etc.

So, it can get as complicated as you want to make it. Or..... how willing are you to purchase without the ability to listen? Or.... purchase based on the feedback of others?

Now push your spending limit up to $1K-1.3K and the choices go WAAAY up!

KEF R300
Ascend Acoustics Luna Reference
Ascend Acoustics Sierra-2 Reference
Philharmonic Audio BMR Philharmonitor
Focal Aria 906
Dynaudio Excite X18
Dynaudio EMIT M20
Revel Concerta2
Rega RX1
SVS Ultra
Dali Opticon 2
etc., etc.

There are tons of nice speakers out there. Finding the right one for you might take some time...or you could always jump on the best deals out there and just enjoy the music!

DaveHo

Unless another vendor is selling them, 703's are no longer $600. Current Adorama price is $800/pair.

pyrocyborg

/wall of text

Oh, DaveHo is right. Seems like the deal is off. It will probably be back up in a few weeks or so. It should give time to OP to read and hear about any other options than the Polk(s).

I'm glad I was able to get another 20% off a pair of on sale 703s. Ended up paying 630 CAD (about 475 USD) a pair plus sales taxes because one of them had a slight 0.5mm wide dent on the side laquer. Too bad my 703s are "relegated" to surround duty, because they're damn fine speakers by themselves.

As for the comparison between the 705s and 703s: It would be false to say that the 703s are like the 705s and the 707s, but without the lower end. Even if you were to set the crossover at 60 hz for all of these speakers, the 703s are tuned differently with a slight bump in the mid-bass region. They do not sound identical, if I could say that. Some will call it lively and punchy, others will call it fake, but I honestly find them to be quite enjoyable.

I really like my 705s, but in my experience, they're a tad harder to setup properly in a sub-optimal room (i.e. non treated). A pair of properly powered bookshelf speakers and a nice subwoofer can do wonders given they're standmounted and positionned decently, because as long as imaging is right, you can "generally" move the subwoofer around until the bass is tight and not overpowering. From there, any room correction software will tame the higher frequencies.

The 705s aren't overkill in a smaller room, but it's easier to move a subwoofer around than to move your floorstanding speakers just to find the right spot where it sounds great and doesn't create a huge null or bass bump. As room correction can't correct these kind of issues without generating others, your only option could be to set the crossover of a pair of 705s to 60 or 80 hz (if said null/bump is under those frequencies), but it somehow seems like a waste.

Now, I used to go the Integrated + subwoofer route (REL T3), and it was hard to get it right because the lack of subwoofer output makes setting up the crossover more trouble than it could be with a receiver. It never sounded "right" to me, but it could be due to the large room I had put such a small subwoofer in. I like how "easier" it is to blend speakers and subwoofers with a receiver with a sub out.

pearsall001

I originally had the LSi15's for about 2yrs, very pleased with them until I heard the KEF Q900 towers. The Q900 came home & the LSi15's were sold. Had them for about 2yrs also & wanted to try a pair of bookies. I went with the KEF Q300's & still have them to this day. Now to be fair I am a true believer in a sub regardless of the speakers. I have twin Velo SPL1200 subs with the DSpeaker Anti-Mode EQ that have been there with all my speakers. Fantastic musical presentation for all genres & also a killer for HT. The DSpeaker Anti-Mode is a must have for any sub. It will elevate your listening experience like you can't imagine. My room is 13x34 & the Q300 along with the twin Velo's fill it like there's no tomorrow. I also listened to the LS50 & they are simply incredible! It's just that I am quite happy where I'm at right now.

tlainhart

Thanks, everyone, for all of the effort given in your responses. I do see that the 600 deal for the 703s are gone, so that will put that on hold for the time being.

I watched/listened to the LS50 vs. LS50w comparisons, and I agree with @WLDock that the wireless have nicer mids. It does sound great, but I'm not ready to make that big a shift yet, given my current gear.

When I decided to get more serious about sound reproduction 20 years ago, and I asked on a Usenet forum (rec.audio?) where to go from where I was (in terms of vinyl), the strongest recommendation I received was to get a RCM. That was the best advice I could have received at the time - I bought a used VPI 16.5 and it made a huge difference.

The next big step (after slowly upgrading gear) was to learn about speaker placement and room treatment. I'm still learning, but after getting a bunch of absorption panels from GIK Acoustics, things have improved there as well.

Recently I learned that I needed more power to really showcase my speakers, and after a couple of upgrades there, I understand what folks have been telling me for years.

So now what I'm learning/hearing here is that I've got to spend more time with decent subwoofers. I've not yet dug into the links that @WLDock and others supplied, but intend to. My takeaway from this conversation is, that while the deals on LSiMs can be really great, I would be better served to invest that time and money into some subs.