2 ch pre with ht bypass

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Willow
Willow Posts: 10,901
Help me understand this. I'd like to get better 2ch reproduction but I require to keep ht avr for connections to the TV. Without spending an arm and leg what and which brands should I look for?
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,912
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    all depends, what price bracket are you looking in ?
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • Gerres26
    Gerres26 Posts: 863
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    How much are you looking to spend? My Musical fidelity A5 integrated amp had ht bypass, as does my McCormack RLD-1 preamp. I believe the Parasound P5 also has this feature.
  • Willow
    Willow Posts: 10,901
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    Well how does it work? Could I still use my current avr and just buy a new pre? I don't have a budget in mind I'm just doing some leg work right now. I'd be looking used for sure.
  • rooftop59
    rooftop59 Posts: 8,007
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    Do you have a separate amp or just the avr?
    Living Room 2.2: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Arcam SA30; Musical Fidelity A308; Sony UBP-x1000es; Squeezebox Touch with Bolder Power Supply
    Game Room 5.1.4:
    Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 900 mains, CLR-3000 center, StudioMonitor 350 surrounds, ProMonitor 800 atmos x4; Sub - Monoprice Monolith 15in THX Ultra

    Bedroom 2.1
    Cambridge Azur 551r; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer
  • Willow
    Willow Posts: 10,901
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  • rooftop59
    rooftop59 Posts: 8,007
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    What sources do you want to run through the pre?
    Living Room 2.2: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Arcam SA30; Musical Fidelity A308; Sony UBP-x1000es; Squeezebox Touch with Bolder Power Supply
    Game Room 5.1.4:
    Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 900 mains, CLR-3000 center, StudioMonitor 350 surrounds, ProMonitor 800 atmos x4; Sub - Monoprice Monolith 15in THX Ultra

    Bedroom 2.1
    Cambridge Azur 551r; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer
  • Willow
    Willow Posts: 10,901
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,212
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    You don't exactly need ht bypass. You can run the pre outs to any input, you just have to pick a volume level to calibrate to and always select that input and volume when using the HT.

    Otherwise ht bypass simply disables the volume when selected as the input.

    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
  • rooftop59
    rooftop59 Posts: 8,007
    edited January 2019
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    So assuming you get a pre with enough inputs, instead of using the preouts from the AVR to go directly to your amp, you would go into the HT bypass analog input on the PRE. You would need another input for the turntable, and then if the PRE has a DAC, you could run the CDP into either an analog or digital input. Then run out of the pre into the amp.

    BUT, assuming you have enough HDMI inputs on your TV and an optical output from the TV, there is no reason for you to keep the AVR. Run your video sources into the tv, and then an optical cable out of the TV into either an external DAC or a pre with built in DAC. I have had several marantz AVRs are really like them, but their DACs can't touch even something like my old Arcam rDAC or the DACs in my peachtree, much less a nice dedicated DAC.

    So, you have a lot of options, but if you are going to go this route I would probably just sell the AVR. Then you don't need HT bypass and you have several options:

    1. buy a pre with no DAC and then buy an external DAC and use the parasound
    2. buy a pre with built in DAC and use the parasound
    3. buy an integrated amp with no DAC and buy an external DAC sell the parasound
    4. buy an integrated amp with DAC and sell the parasound

    @steveinaz has loved his benchmark DACs which can be used as a pre. I would oook into an option like that, and keep the parasound. He basically does what I am describing in the second paragraph...
    Living Room 2.2: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Arcam SA30; Musical Fidelity A308; Sony UBP-x1000es; Squeezebox Touch with Bolder Power Supply
    Game Room 5.1.4:
    Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 900 mains, CLR-3000 center, StudioMonitor 350 surrounds, ProMonitor 800 atmos x4; Sub - Monoprice Monolith 15in THX Ultra

    Bedroom 2.1
    Cambridge Azur 551r; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer
  • rooftop59
    rooftop59 Posts: 8,007
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    VR3 wrote: »
    You don't exactly need ht bypass. You can run the pre outs to any input, you just have to pick a volume level to calibrate to and always select that input and volume when using the HT.

    Otherwise ht bypass simply disables the volume when selected as the input.

    If you have a Non-techie spouse and especially young children, you DO need HT bypass in that scenario. Otherwise you will constantly hear screaming "the volume doesn't work!" or "how do you turn this s#!t down?!?"
    Living Room 2.2: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Arcam SA30; Musical Fidelity A308; Sony UBP-x1000es; Squeezebox Touch with Bolder Power Supply
    Game Room 5.1.4:
    Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 900 mains, CLR-3000 center, StudioMonitor 350 surrounds, ProMonitor 800 atmos x4; Sub - Monoprice Monolith 15in THX Ultra

    Bedroom 2.1
    Cambridge Azur 551r; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer
  • Willow
    Willow Posts: 10,901
    edited January 2019
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    I'm using an external dac and I have a 7 and 6 year old. I'd like to keep my avr. So I need to look for a 2ch pre with ht bypass....
  • rooftop59
    rooftop59 Posts: 8,007
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    The Benchmark DAC2 will still fit the bill, but would render your DAC moot. You could buy it and sell the DAC I suppose...

    Honestly not sure how many pure pres with HT bypass are out there that aren't 4 digits??? Budget is key here...
    Living Room 2.2: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Arcam SA30; Musical Fidelity A308; Sony UBP-x1000es; Squeezebox Touch with Bolder Power Supply
    Game Room 5.1.4:
    Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 900 mains, CLR-3000 center, StudioMonitor 350 surrounds, ProMonitor 800 atmos x4; Sub - Monoprice Monolith 15in THX Ultra

    Bedroom 2.1
    Cambridge Azur 551r; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer
  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,212
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    Odyssey candela can be found used under 1k
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,912
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    You don't necessarily need a pre with a HT by-pass function. Look for a line level pre amp, tubed preferably, without the volume control.

    For instance, my Joule LA-100 is a good example. Just run the front pre-outs from the avr to an input on the pre, pre's outputs to the amp and your golden. Have it hooked up like that myself and works fine.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • rooftop59
    rooftop59 Posts: 8,007
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    tonyb wrote: »
    You don't necessarily need a pre with a HT by-pass function. Look for a line level pre amp, tubed preferably, without the volume control.

    For instance, my Joule LA-100 is a good example. Just run the front pre-outs from the avr to an input on the pre, pre's outputs to the amp and your golden. Have it hooked up like that myself and works fine.

    Is it possible to take the avr out of the chain for pure two channel with that setup Tony?
    Living Room 2.2: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Arcam SA30; Musical Fidelity A308; Sony UBP-x1000es; Squeezebox Touch with Bolder Power Supply
    Game Room 5.1.4:
    Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 900 mains, CLR-3000 center, StudioMonitor 350 surrounds, ProMonitor 800 atmos x4; Sub - Monoprice Monolith 15in THX Ultra

    Bedroom 2.1
    Cambridge Azur 551r; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer
  • halo
    halo Posts: 5,616
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    I was using the HT Bypass feature on my Cary when I was using the Marantz NR1403. So, the TV sources like Roku, Blu-ray, and Cable box were all connected via HDMI to the Marantz AVR. The HDMI output on the Marantz went into the HDMI 1 input on my TV. When I was using a center channel speaker, the Marantz drove the center channel speaker only (I didn't have surround speakers in the apartment, if I did the Marantz would drive those as well). The pre outs on the Marantz were connected to the Stereo/2-channel preamp's HT Bypass inputs. The Stereo/2-channel amp drove the main L & R speakers.
    Audio: Polk S15 * Polk S35 * Polk S10 * SVS SB-1000 Pro
    HT: Samsung QN90B * Marantz NR1510 * Panasonic DMP-BDT220 * Roku Ultra LT * APC H10
  • joecoulson
    joecoulson Posts: 4,943
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    PS Audio Stellar Gain DAC Pre - works like a champ for EXACTLY what you are asking as I have the same type of setup
    Underwood HIFI had it for a stupid deal but you need to call them for it
    I am very happy with mine, changed the 2ch game completely
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,912
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    rooftop59 wrote: »
    tonyb wrote: »
    You don't necessarily need a pre with a HT by-pass function. Look for a line level pre amp, tubed preferably, without the volume control.

    For instance, my Joule LA-100 is a good example. Just run the front pre-outs from the avr to an input on the pre, pre's outputs to the amp and your golden. Have it hooked up like that myself and works fine.

    Is it possible to take the avr out of the chain for pure two channel with that setup Tony?

    Yes, that's exactly why you connect it that way. Your musical source is connected to the pre amp, not the receiver.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • rooftop59
    rooftop59 Posts: 8,007
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    tonyb wrote: »
    rooftop59 wrote: »
    tonyb wrote: »
    You don't necessarily need a pre with a HT by-pass function. Look for a line level pre amp, tubed preferably, without the volume control.

    For instance, my Joule LA-100 is a good example. Just run the front pre-outs from the avr to an input on the pre, pre's outputs to the amp and your golden. Have it hooked up like that myself and works fine.

    Is it possible to take the avr out of the chain for pure two channel with that setup Tony?

    Yes, that's exactly why you connect it that way. Your musical source is connected to the pre amp, not the receiver.

    But don’t you have two different volume knobs competing? Like watching tv goes through the avr volume out to the pre and through it’s volume out to the speakers? My family could never figure that out lol...
    Living Room 2.2: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Arcam SA30; Musical Fidelity A308; Sony UBP-x1000es; Squeezebox Touch with Bolder Power Supply
    Game Room 5.1.4:
    Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 900 mains, CLR-3000 center, StudioMonitor 350 surrounds, ProMonitor 800 atmos x4; Sub - Monoprice Monolith 15in THX Ultra

    Bedroom 2.1
    Cambridge Azur 551r; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,912
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    rooftop59 wrote: »
    tonyb wrote: »
    rooftop59 wrote: »
    tonyb wrote: »
    You don't necessarily need a pre with a HT by-pass function. Look for a line level pre amp, tubed preferably, without the volume control.

    For instance, my Joule LA-100 is a good example. Just run the front pre-outs from the avr to an input on the pre, pre's outputs to the amp and your golden. Have it hooked up like that myself and works fine.

    Is it possible to take the avr out of the chain for pure two channel with that setup Tony?

    Yes, that's exactly why you connect it that way. Your musical source is connected to the pre amp, not the receiver.

    But don’t you have two different volume knobs competing? Like watching tv goes through the avr volume out to the pre and through it’s volume out to the speakers? My family could never figure that out lol...

    The line level pre doesn't have a volume knob. You use the volume on your source component for music, the volume knob on the receiver for movies.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • rooftop59
    rooftop59 Posts: 8,007
    Options
    tonyb wrote: »
    rooftop59 wrote: »
    tonyb wrote: »
    rooftop59 wrote: »
    tonyb wrote: »
    You don't necessarily need a pre with a HT by-pass function. Look for a line level pre amp, tubed preferably, without the volume control.

    For instance, my Joule LA-100 is a good example. Just run the front pre-outs from the avr to an input on the pre, pre's outputs to the amp and your golden. Have it hooked up like that myself and works fine.

    Is it possible to take the avr out of the chain for pure two channel with that setup Tony?

    Yes, that's exactly why you connect it that way. Your musical source is connected to the pre amp, not the receiver.

    But don’t you have two different volume knobs competing? Like watching tv goes through the avr volume out to the pre and through it’s volume out to the speakers? My family could never figure that out lol...

    The line level pre doesn't have a volume knob. You use the volume on your source component for music, the volume knob on the receiver for movies.

    Ah I see...that’s the problem. Can’t use it with components with no volume control like the bryston or a record player...
    Living Room 2.2: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Arcam SA30; Musical Fidelity A308; Sony UBP-x1000es; Squeezebox Touch with Bolder Power Supply
    Game Room 5.1.4:
    Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 900 mains, CLR-3000 center, StudioMonitor 350 surrounds, ProMonitor 800 atmos x4; Sub - Monoprice Monolith 15in THX Ultra

    Bedroom 2.1
    Cambridge Azur 551r; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer
  • WLDock
    WLDock Posts: 3,073
    edited January 2019
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    Tons of option in the new and used $500 -$1.5k range. However, if you want something new for cheap, the Parasound Zpre3 has a bypass and is $349.

    https://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PAZPRE3

    2.2 Office Setup | LG 29UB55 21:9 UltraWide | HP Probook 630 G8 | Dell Latitude | Cabasse Stream Amp 100 | Boston Acoustics VS 240 | AUDIORAX Desk Stands | Mirage Omni S8 sub1 | Mirage Omni S8 Sub2
  • WLDock
    WLDock Posts: 3,073
    edited January 2019
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    2.2 Office Setup | LG 29UB55 21:9 UltraWide | HP Probook 630 G8 | Dell Latitude | Cabasse Stream Amp 100 | Boston Acoustics VS 240 | AUDIORAX Desk Stands | Mirage Omni S8 sub1 | Mirage Omni S8 Sub2
  • Willow
    Willow Posts: 10,901
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    WLDock wrote: »
    Tons of option in the new and used $500 -$1.5k range. However, if you want something new for cheap, the Parasound Zpre3 has a bypass and is $349.

    https://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PAZPRE3

    This one Seems about right. Don't want to spend too much on it right now.
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,912
    Options
    tubes bro, ya need toooobs ! :)
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,201
    Options
    Or a Pass Labs X1.. Last preamp you will ever buy. :p
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
  • WLDock
    WLDock Posts: 3,073
    Options
    Willow wrote: »
    WLDock wrote: »
    Tons of option in the new and used $500 -$1.5k range. However, if you want something new for cheap, the Parasound Zpre3 has a bypass and is $349.

    https://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PAZPRE3

    This one Seems about right. Don't want to spend too much on it right now.

    So, you do have a limited budget...I understand very well.

    Like tony said, Tubes would be cool but new is going to be tough. Used Jolida Fusion, Peachtree, etc. Here's a used Quicksilver Audio Line Stage tube pre for $575:
    https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649467552-quicksilver-audio-line-stage-preamplifier/images/2017724/

    These have HT bypass option for $50 addl. new so maybe that used one has it or it can be sent in and added?
    http://quicksilveraudio.com/products/line-stage-preamp/
    2.2 Office Setup | LG 29UB55 21:9 UltraWide | HP Probook 630 G8 | Dell Latitude | Cabasse Stream Amp 100 | Boston Acoustics VS 240 | AUDIORAX Desk Stands | Mirage Omni S8 sub1 | Mirage Omni S8 Sub2
  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,201
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    DSkip wrote: »
    Pass does make some good preamps. Wish I liked his power amps more than I do.


    Everybody knows power amps are all the same. >:):p;)
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
  • joecoulson
    joecoulson Posts: 4,943
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    I’ll Pass on that argument
  • Willow
    Willow Posts: 10,901
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    WLDock wrote: »
    Willow wrote: »
    WLDock wrote: »
    Tons of option in the new and used $500 -$1.5k range. However, if you want something new for cheap, the Parasound Zpre3 has a bypass and is $349.

    https://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PAZPRE3

    This one Seems about right. Don't want to spend too much on it right now.

    So, you do have a limited budget...I understand very well.

    Like tony said, Tubes would be cool but new is going to be tough. Used Jolida Fusion, Peachtree, etc. Here's a used Quicksilver Audio Line Stage tube pre for $575:
    https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649467552-quicksilver-audio-line-stage-preamplifier/images/2017724/

    These have HT bypass option for $50 addl. new so maybe that used one has it or it can be sent in and added?
    http://quicksilveraudio.com/products/line-stage-preamp/

    Had I not had to drop almost 500 on repairs to a vehicle yesterday... was driving and heard a huge bang. Stepped on the gas and the rav sounded like a 16 year olds Honda civic. New exhaust, muffler and pipes and oil change. Trying to keep it for another 3 years while we pay for the rdx. Anyway thanks for all the info and perhaps I'll wait until tax refund time and splurge a bit more.