For Fun - Anything Wrong With This Denon Cartridge?

msg
msg Posts: 10,014
edited December 2018 in 2 Channel Audio
Curious here as to the limits of acceptable manufacture, or what might be damage or a defect.

Do you turntable and vinyl guys see anything wrong with this picture?
(might need to open the full size version for a closer look)

If there's something wrong, what might be the effects on sound and record health in using this cartridge?

Denon DL-110; uses an Elliptical Diamond
v1qwswf4u14d.jpg

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Comments

  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 11,151
    The diamond sure looks tilted to the right in your fine picture.

    I'll let more knowledgeable analog gurus give advice.
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,548
    The cantilever and stylus are cattywampus. Send it back.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • honestaquarian
    honestaquarian Posts: 3,186
    Tony M wrote: »
    The diamond sure looks tilted to the right in your fine picture.

    I'll let more knowledgeable analog gurus give advice.

    Well other than what Tony said-which could possibly cause a channel imbalance- I don’t see anything wrong. I mean there’s plenty of fine dust particles, which is to be expected.
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,415
    The cantilever is twisted to the right. The stylus will not sit in the groove properly, and to be honest, I don’t think I would attempt to play a record with that one. It would wear out one side of the record groove rather quickly.

    I suggest replacing it.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • verb
    verb Posts: 10,176
    edited December 2018
    Just take a pipe wrench and twist it back! :smile:

    Seriously it looks bent or something.
    Basement: Polk SDA SRS 1.2tl's, Cary SLP-05 Pre with ultimate upgrade,McIntosh MCD301 CD/SACD player, Northstar Designs Excelsio DAC, Cambridge 851N streamer, McIntosh MC300 Amp, Silnote Morpheus Ref2, Series2 Digital Cables, Silnote Morpheus Ref2 Series2 XLR's, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Pangea Power Cables, MIT Shotgun S3 IC's, MIT Shotgun S1 Bi-Wire speaker cables
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  • msg
    msg Posts: 10,014
    edited December 2018
    Haha, man, you guys all nailed it right off!

    Yes, this is exactly my concern, John, thanks - aside from the channel imbalance Carlton mentioned, and never getting it set up properly, the potential for record damage.

    It's going back.
    My first, and possibly only experience with "gently used" cartridges from Ebay sellers. You just don't know what you're getting, or where it came from. This one was supposedly only run for 2hrs. An error in packing is got me to take a closer look at it.


    Been doing a little reading on gray market/counterfeit stuff, too, and talking carts and vinyl with @jdjohn It seems like the wild west out there! I didn't realize how profound an effect counterfeiting can have on the global economy, all the way down to the, now obvious to me, lost jobs and companies going out of business.

    Apparently counterfeiting isn't as difficult as people think. For instance, I thought, Man, how could someone counterfeit something like a phono cart? I don't know that this happens, but I was reading that manufacturing facilities don't even have to build something from scratch - they can simply create product "off the clock", or post contract, using the designs they were contracted to build. And they can do it using lesser materials or more lax QC, hence the possibility for inferior product. That was an eye opener for me.
    I disabled signatures.
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  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0
    All the more reason to buy from authorized sellers.
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,801
    F1nut wrote: »
    The cantilever and stylus are cattywampus. Send it back.

    You must be native to the same part of the world as I. :)

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  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 11,151
    Counterfeiters suck! >:)

    After reading about fake speaker cables on this forum, I had to step back and say WHOE ( sp ) ! They've done gone too far now. Stereo stuff was off limits except for making our own recordings on Cassettes from albums. That was it wasn't it?

    Buyer beware and the other if it's too good..... sure hits close to home for us all now here on the forum.
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
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  • aprazer402
    aprazer402 Posts: 3,147
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    F1nut wrote: »
    The cantilever and stylus are cattywampus. Send it back.

    You must be native to the same part of the world as I. :)

    To quote (maybe paraphrase) Henry Fonda (Mr. Roberts) "We call it the same thing in Nebraska." ;)
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  • jdjohn
    jdjohn Posts: 3,149
    Clearly it is off, but IMO it's not that bad. We have to assume this passed Denon's QC checks, so was within their tolerances, but someone could argue that they were slack. If so, a person might want to check any Denons they might have in their possession. Actually, check any brands, and we might all be surprised what we see if we look hard enough. Even with a perfectly aligned cantilever, someone could have azimuth off by that much and not even realize it. I also have to wonder how much the cartridge's suspension would correct this when the diamond is in the groove.

    Now...how do you feel about this one?
    z41gh8xcrl9p.jpg
    "This may not matter to you, but it does to me for various reasons, many of them illogical or irrational, but the vinyl hobby is not really logical or rational..." - member on Vinyl Engine
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  • verb
    verb Posts: 10,176
    edited December 2018
    .....
    Basement: Polk SDA SRS 1.2tl's, Cary SLP-05 Pre with ultimate upgrade,McIntosh MCD301 CD/SACD player, Northstar Designs Excelsio DAC, Cambridge 851N streamer, McIntosh MC300 Amp, Silnote Morpheus Ref2, Series2 Digital Cables, Silnote Morpheus Ref2 Series2 XLR's, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Pangea Power Cables, MIT Shotgun S3 IC's, MIT Shotgun S1 Bi-Wire speaker cables
    Office: PC, EAR Acute CD Player, EAR 834L Pre, Northstar Designs Intenso DAC, Antique Sound Labs AV8 Monoblocks, Denon UDR-F10 Cassette, Acoustic Technologies Classic FR Speakers, SVS SB12 Plus sub, MIT AVt2 speaker cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable, Groneberg Quatro Reference IC's
    Spare Room: Dayens Ampino Integrated Amp, Tjoeb 99 tube CD player (modified Marantz CD-38), Analysis Plus Oval 9's, Zu Jumpers, AudioEngine B1 Streamer, Klipsch RB-61 v2, SVS PB1000 sub, Blue Jeans RCA IC's, Shunyata Hydra 8 Power Conditioner
    Living Room: Peachtree Nova Integrated, Cambridge CXN v2 Streamer, Rotel RCD-1072 CD player, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi sub
    Garage #1: Cambridge Audio 640A Integrated Amp, Project Box-E BT Streamer, Polk Tsi200 Bookies, Douglas Speaker Cables, Shunyata Power Conditioner
    Garage #2: Cambridge Audio EVO150 Integrated Amplifier, Polk L200's, Analysis Plus Silver Oval 2 Speaker Cables, IC's TBD.
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  • verb
    verb Posts: 10,176
    edited December 2018
    Sorry was texting the Mrs. Forgot my reading glasses!
    Basement: Polk SDA SRS 1.2tl's, Cary SLP-05 Pre with ultimate upgrade,McIntosh MCD301 CD/SACD player, Northstar Designs Excelsio DAC, Cambridge 851N streamer, McIntosh MC300 Amp, Silnote Morpheus Ref2, Series2 Digital Cables, Silnote Morpheus Ref2 Series2 XLR's, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Pangea Power Cables, MIT Shotgun S3 IC's, MIT Shotgun S1 Bi-Wire speaker cables
    Office: PC, EAR Acute CD Player, EAR 834L Pre, Northstar Designs Intenso DAC, Antique Sound Labs AV8 Monoblocks, Denon UDR-F10 Cassette, Acoustic Technologies Classic FR Speakers, SVS SB12 Plus sub, MIT AVt2 speaker cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable, Groneberg Quatro Reference IC's
    Spare Room: Dayens Ampino Integrated Amp, Tjoeb 99 tube CD player (modified Marantz CD-38), Analysis Plus Oval 9's, Zu Jumpers, AudioEngine B1 Streamer, Klipsch RB-61 v2, SVS PB1000 sub, Blue Jeans RCA IC's, Shunyata Hydra 8 Power Conditioner
    Living Room: Peachtree Nova Integrated, Cambridge CXN v2 Streamer, Rotel RCD-1072 CD player, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi sub
    Garage #1: Cambridge Audio 640A Integrated Amp, Project Box-E BT Streamer, Polk Tsi200 Bookies, Douglas Speaker Cables, Shunyata Power Conditioner
    Garage #2: Cambridge Audio EVO150 Integrated Amplifier, Polk L200's, Analysis Plus Silver Oval 2 Speaker Cables, IC's TBD.
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,801
    edited December 2018
    as long as you weren't s-exting her...

    ;)

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  • mikeyb128
    mikeyb128 Posts: 2,885
    I had a sound Smith Carmen that came new, directly from sound Smith. It was slightly askew like yours. I was assured it was ok by the big man himself. I ran it for years without issue.
    2 channel:
    Bryston 4B3, Bryston BDA3, Cary SLP05, Shanling CDT1000SE with parts conneXion level 2 mods, Nottingham analogue ace space 294, soundsmith Carmen MKii, Zu DL103 MKii, Ortofon MC 20 MKii, Dynavector XX2 MKii, Rogue Audio Ares, Core power technologies balanced power conditioner, Akiko Corelli power conditioner with Akiko Audio HQ power cable, Nordost heimdall 2, Frey 2, interconnects, speaker and power cables, Focal Electra 1028 BE 2, Auralic Aries Femto, Black diamond racing cones, ingress audio level 1 roller blocks, JL Audio E110 with Auralic subdude, Primacoustics room treatments.
    Theater:
    Focal Aria 926,905,CC900, SVS PB ultra x2. Pioneer Elite SC85, Oppo BDP93, Panamax M5400PM, Minix neox6, Nordost Blue heaven LS power cables.

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  • verb
    verb Posts: 10,176
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    as long as you weren't s-exting her...

    ;)

    Caught in time my dear sir! Vegas ya know! :wink:
    Basement: Polk SDA SRS 1.2tl's, Cary SLP-05 Pre with ultimate upgrade,McIntosh MCD301 CD/SACD player, Northstar Designs Excelsio DAC, Cambridge 851N streamer, McIntosh MC300 Amp, Silnote Morpheus Ref2, Series2 Digital Cables, Silnote Morpheus Ref2 Series2 XLR's, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Pangea Power Cables, MIT Shotgun S3 IC's, MIT Shotgun S1 Bi-Wire speaker cables
    Office: PC, EAR Acute CD Player, EAR 834L Pre, Northstar Designs Intenso DAC, Antique Sound Labs AV8 Monoblocks, Denon UDR-F10 Cassette, Acoustic Technologies Classic FR Speakers, SVS SB12 Plus sub, MIT AVt2 speaker cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable, Groneberg Quatro Reference IC's
    Spare Room: Dayens Ampino Integrated Amp, Tjoeb 99 tube CD player (modified Marantz CD-38), Analysis Plus Oval 9's, Zu Jumpers, AudioEngine B1 Streamer, Klipsch RB-61 v2, SVS PB1000 sub, Blue Jeans RCA IC's, Shunyata Hydra 8 Power Conditioner
    Living Room: Peachtree Nova Integrated, Cambridge CXN v2 Streamer, Rotel RCD-1072 CD player, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi sub
    Garage #1: Cambridge Audio 640A Integrated Amp, Project Box-E BT Streamer, Polk Tsi200 Bookies, Douglas Speaker Cables, Shunyata Power Conditioner
    Garage #2: Cambridge Audio EVO150 Integrated Amplifier, Polk L200's, Analysis Plus Silver Oval 2 Speaker Cables, IC's TBD.
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  • verb
    verb Posts: 10,176
    Unfortunately there are counterfeits everywhere. You name it, it can be counterfeited. From audio to other electronics to auto parts. Clothing, watches, software, the list goes on and on. What I do is try to stick with a reputable seller, IMO. Otherwise it’s a gamble.

    Heck I’ve gotten counterfeit items from 3rd party sellers through Amazon, fortunately their return policy is good.
    Basement: Polk SDA SRS 1.2tl's, Cary SLP-05 Pre with ultimate upgrade,McIntosh MCD301 CD/SACD player, Northstar Designs Excelsio DAC, Cambridge 851N streamer, McIntosh MC300 Amp, Silnote Morpheus Ref2, Series2 Digital Cables, Silnote Morpheus Ref2 Series2 XLR's, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Pangea Power Cables, MIT Shotgun S3 IC's, MIT Shotgun S1 Bi-Wire speaker cables
    Office: PC, EAR Acute CD Player, EAR 834L Pre, Northstar Designs Intenso DAC, Antique Sound Labs AV8 Monoblocks, Denon UDR-F10 Cassette, Acoustic Technologies Classic FR Speakers, SVS SB12 Plus sub, MIT AVt2 speaker cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable, Groneberg Quatro Reference IC's
    Spare Room: Dayens Ampino Integrated Amp, Tjoeb 99 tube CD player (modified Marantz CD-38), Analysis Plus Oval 9's, Zu Jumpers, AudioEngine B1 Streamer, Klipsch RB-61 v2, SVS PB1000 sub, Blue Jeans RCA IC's, Shunyata Hydra 8 Power Conditioner
    Living Room: Peachtree Nova Integrated, Cambridge CXN v2 Streamer, Rotel RCD-1072 CD player, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi sub
    Garage #1: Cambridge Audio 640A Integrated Amp, Project Box-E BT Streamer, Polk Tsi200 Bookies, Douglas Speaker Cables, Shunyata Power Conditioner
    Garage #2: Cambridge Audio EVO150 Integrated Amplifier, Polk L200's, Analysis Plus Silver Oval 2 Speaker Cables, IC's TBD.
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,415
    There are even bogus Ferrari out there that look and sound identical to the real thing in every detail.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • msg
    msg Posts: 10,014
    jdjohn wrote: »
    We have to assume this passed Denon's QC checks, so was within their tolerances, but someone could argue that they were slack. If so, a person might want to check any Denons they might have in their possession.

    I also have to wonder how much the cartridge's suspension would correct this when the diamond is in the groove.

    Now...how do you feel about this one?
    xqvc0hwrxnki.png
    Woh! Looks stuck on with a loogie.

    This was eye opening for me. I'm going to check my other two carts to see. I have a Shire M97xE (similar to a Shure M97xE, but is instead actually a counterfeit made by Frodo and Bilbo) and a Grado Green.

    Good question on whether it would be corrected under the cart's suspension.

    I disabled signatures.
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,496
    edited December 2018
    You could just adjust it...cattywampus the cartridge on headshell and give the arm a twist. :o
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
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