Health Insurance Costs

1235»

Comments

  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,521
    I'm speaking in terms of relativity to healthcare insurance.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
    rooftop59 wrote: »
    you actually think car/home insurance works well Steve??? Ask people in Florida and Cali how its working out for them.

    Both are okay for me. Of course, I haven't made a home insurance claim, and last car insurance claim was in the 70s.

    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    BlueFox wrote: »
    rooftop59 wrote: »
    you actually think car/home insurance works well Steve??? Ask people in Florida and Cali how its working out for them.

    Both are okay for me. Of course, I haven't made a home insurance claim, and last car insurance claim was in the 70s.

    Let's do the math. Let's say on average you paid 1000 bucks a year for car insurance over the course of 40 years. That's 40K, about what an average car would cost these days should you total one out. A foreign luxury car, the insurance company would certainly lose money. That's just on the car , then you have medical and potential law suits.

    I'd say car insurance is still reasonable considering everything that could go wrong.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 8,505
    I don’t see how anyone can compare car insurance to health insurance. One has a ceiling cap. The other doesn’t.
    Magico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    Joey_V wrote: »
    I don’t see how anyone can compare car insurance to health insurance. One has a ceiling cap. The other doesn’t.

    It's not necessarily a direct comparison Joey. The argument goes like this.....

    The idea of "spreading out the costs" has worked to keep car insurance relatively low. Why can't that work in HC insurance also.

    Many reasons why it won't.

    Caps, like you said.
    Most don't use car insurance a lot, don't make numerous claims. HC is the direct opposite of that. Especially if you have kids and as you get older.

    Car insurance isn't filled with lots of fraud and abuse.
    Health insurance is mandated to give out services for free, car insurance is not. Car insurance also has many competitors, HC...not so much.

    Healthcare insurance has many variables to it, simply more to cover. Car insurance is fairly straight forward and has a more narrow scope of coverage.


    If you took the same things that make HC expensive, and applied that to car insurance, you can bet the farm your car insurance would be 10 fold.

    On the flip side, maybe we should apply principles that keep car insurance low, to Healthcare. Like, not mandating to give out services for free. Put caps on certain things. Do the best we can to eliminate the fraud and abuse. Let competition enter the HC industry.

    What a concept eh ? Cherry pick what works elsewhere and see if we can apply it to HC.

    Whats aggravating for me is, we can conquer things once we put our mind to it and are not handcuffed. We can figure out space travel, put a man on the moon, design and build particle smashers, but we can't figure out HC ?

    Gotta take the handcuffs off if we want cheaper HC insurance.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • deronb1
    deronb1 Posts: 5,021
    Joey_V wrote: »
    I don’t see how anyone can compare car insurance to health insurance. One has a ceiling cap. The other doesn’t.

    Bingo Joey! The government does not have to RUN it, just regulate costs, oust the middle man and insure there are no shenannigans. Then, maybe businesses and corporations may feel more comfortable offering low cost HC to their employees considering they got a huge tax break.Most hospitals are now part of a network and are more that capable of handling the paperwork.
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    deronb1 wrote: »
    Joey_V wrote: »
    I don’t see how anyone can compare car insurance to health insurance. One has a ceiling cap. The other doesn’t.

    Bingo Joey! The government does not have to RUN it, just regulate costs, oust the middle man and insure there are no shenannigans. Then, maybe businesses and corporations may feel more comfortable offering low cost HC to their employees considering they got a huge tax break.Most hospitals are now part of a network and are more that capable of handling the paperwork.

    Yes, yes, and wishful thinking. :)

    Tax breaks to corporations won't always equate to them offering you better benefits. That requires a conscience, maybe even....dare I say, some moral standing, something corporate America has been missing for some time now.

    Maybe some of you are too young to remember, a time when corporate America was all about....Americans. They gave you great benefits, retirement packages, rewarded loyalty. Vacation time, paid for. You didn't need a legal team, to take some time off if you were pregnant, got sick, kids were in the hospital. Generally speaking, the relationship between employee and employer was one of mutual understanding and care. Each wanted to see the other prosper, because both benefited.

    Sure, some corporations are still like that today, but far and few between in comparison. Ask yourself, what changed ?
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • cfrizz
    cfrizz Posts: 13,415
    Sorry Tony, but one insurance is for a inanimate object, the other is for peoples LIVES! There is no comparison.

    Do you want to be the one to walk into the hospital and get sent back out to die because you don't have insurance? I highly doubt it.

    Some people are cheap no matter what and just won't get any, the rest STILL won't be able to afford it. Those MD degrees cost money, as well as the staff to run hospitals etc.

    You all bemoan all the govt regulations, when the fact is that if the PEOPLE who ran the corporations had any moral fiber to begin with, the regulations wouldn't have been needed in the first place.

    But from the beginning of time, Those that had/have have been trying to keep everyone else from getting, and **** over/cheating whenever they can. Hence the regulations to try to stop it.
    Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    I understand that Cathy, I was making assertions that we could cherry pick from other areas things that might work. Not only here, but how other countries handle HC. Car insurance is not just for a material object, as medical costs from accidents are included, as well as liability in law suits. Still in the end, car insurance has a more narrow umbrella of coverage than a full blown HC policy.

    Also, every situation where people get free care is not a life and death situation. I agree, as a society we should preserve life as best we can, but the free use of emergency rooms for non-emergency services has to stop. The policy of handing out free medical to illegals and other welfare recipients, has to stop.

    ...and we can't paint all regulations with such a broad brush. Obviously some are needed to keep up a certain standard best not left to corporations. Other regulations are by design to keep out competition or protect certain pieces of the pie.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • cfrizz
    cfrizz Posts: 13,415
    Then what is truly needed all across the country are nearby local clinics that you can go to for non emergency situations. They have them all over Canada, and the with EMR in place if the person needs step up care, their records are there before they get there.

    Now you don't want anyone that is on welfare to have HC? You or I could easily have a change in circumstance and need help until we can get back on our feet! Now who is using a broad brush.
    Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2
  • motorhead43026
    motorhead43026 Posts: 3,892
    edited December 2018
    ^^While we are at it, no healthcare for people on SS disability either. That is welfare, correct?


    2 channel: Anthem 225 Integrated amp; Parasound Ztuner; TechnicsTT SL1350; Vincent PHO-8 phono pre; Marantz CD6005 spinner; Polk SDA2BTL's; LAT International speaker cables, ZU Mission IC's and power cables all into a PS Audio Dectet Power center.

    Other; M10 series II, M7C's, Hafler XL600 amp, RB-980BX, Parasound HCA-1500 amp , P5 preamp, all in storage. All vintage Polk have had crossover rebuilds and tweeter upgrades.

    The best way to predict the future is to invent it.

    It is imperative that we recognize that an opinion is not a fact.

    Imagine making politics your entire personality.
  • cfrizz
    cfrizz Posts: 13,415
    ^^While we are at it, no healthcare for people on SS disability either. That is welfare, correct?

    Yes it is. I had a friend getting SSDI, because he had kidney failure and was getting dialysis 3 times a week and recovering from it the rest of the week. Needless to say he couldn't work.

    When you are collecting SSDI, you can't have more then $2000.00 in the bank, and he must not have been getting very much, since he spent the rest of his life with bill collectors ringing down his phone.

    He worked up until he simply couldn't anymore. But some of you would just cut him and everyone else off because you think they are freeloading.

    Are there some that are abusing the system? Of course, but I think that it is a much smaller percentage then you seem to think. As is the amount of money you all imagine they are getting.
    Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2
  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 11,009
    I knew a guy who was about 45. He had been in an accident that broke his back and paralyzed him from the waist down.

    He started getting SSD immediately plus insurance from the driver who wrecked his car paid for all medical needs.

    He had to sell his Company because he just couldn't do rehab, pain and oversee his Company. I think he tried for 6 months after his surgeries healed but it just wasn't happening he said. He sold it. He sold his 3 homes and 99% of his belongings and came down here to NC. to be near his Father and sister.

    He's getting 3200 or 3800 a month he said because his income was so large when the accident made him unable to keep going.

    He's a brilliant guy and has done amazing things in his life no matter what. A true inspiration to me.

    He built up a great business / company but he said he sold it pretty quick when he found out he couldn't carry on at all. He had a medical doctors health program that a bunch of Doctors joined up in VA. MD. and DC too I believe. 50+ employees worked for him then. And he was 21 and had built that.

    I know he'd like to have his legs back and his company 1000%.

    I feel he paid in a lot of taxes during his adult life up until the first accident. Then another buddy of his lost control of the car he was in and went over a small cliff. The friend (?) left him for dead. He dragged himself up the cliff to get help. He made it and the Docs said they didn't know how he did it. He's very strong willed and religious too. Both helped him that day. He sued the guy like anyone of us would do and he was paid handsomely for that too.

    His family ( The big picture family ) is VERY prominent money managers up in NY I think he said. I'm sure they knew how to handle his SSI and the law suits income.


    I never got to know him more than what I've just typed but he was a cool guy!! And we met through him wanting to buy some speakers from me. I hope he's still living. He was a health nut for sure. A SERIOUS health nut! :)
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    edited December 2018
    cfrizz wrote: »

    Are there some that are abusing the system? Of course, but I think that it is a much smaller percentage then you seem to think. As is the amount of money you all imagine they are getting.



    You'd be wrong to think it's a small amount Cathy. A recent report came out, saying that 63% of illegals collect some sort of welfare. Here's the kicker....AFTER 10 YEARS, 70% of them are still on welfare programs. That's not chump change....AND that doesn't take into account the generational welfare recipients among our own citizens.

    In my opinion, there are a few who deserve free care, and I have no problem paying extra for these people.

    The Handicapped....kids or adults.

    Vets- they've already given to this country

    Seniors- they've already given to this country

    I do have a problem with people who have given squat to this country and expect the same benefits. I do have a problem with the definition of a "disability" being so broad as to include things such as addiction to heavy metal music, addiction to video games, and that sort of B.S. I do have a problem with generational welfare or trying to apply Medicare into a single payer system for all.

    Welfare, at it's core, was meant for American citizens who have TEMPORARILY fallen on hard times. It was never intended to be a life long subscription, applied to non-citizens or blown up to include a variety of non essential things.

    Everyone pretty much agrees, the fraud and abuse has to end. Your answer to that is to have the same people creating that fraud and abuse, run the whole thing ? Call me crazy, but that's a crazy idea in my book.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • rooftop59
    rooftop59 Posts: 7,952
    Link to the source of that report tony? Was it a non partisan academic think tank, government, or faux news? The source makes a huge difference. After all, 98% of all statistics are made up...
    Living Room 2.2: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Arcam SA30; Musical Fidelity A308; Sony UBP-x1000es; Squeezebox Touch with Bolder Power Supply
    Game Room 5.1.4:
    Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 900 mains, CLR-3000 center, StudioMonitor 350 surrounds, ProMonitor 800 atmos x4; Sub - Monoprice Monolith 15in THX Ultra

    Bedroom 2.1
    Cambridge Azur 551r; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    I believe it was a government report, I'll find the link.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    rooftop59 wrote: »
    Link to the source of that report tony? Was it a non partisan academic think tank, government, or faux news? The source makes a huge difference. After all, 98% of all statistics are made up...

    I would tend to agree with you about stats being made up to fit an agenda, especially coming out of government. However, we have to have some sort of measuring stick. I'm certainly open to margins of error, and even individual think tanks have errors and agendas. We have to start somewhere though, if we dispel all reports, all stats, then we have nothing to complain about because everyone has an agenda. Which then means, we never solve anything.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    To further my point, on the job well done by government running it's programs, they have known for years about the oncoming amount of baby boomers retiring and enrolling in medicare/Medicaid. Did they do anything to shore that up ? Nope. Did they do anything to shore up the Social security system, which they also knew years in advance would take a hit from the baby boomers retiring ? Nope.

    They are slow to react to anything, until it reaches a critical meltdown. Healthcare is no different. If they can't run a simple program like SS, or run a HC system for Vets and seniors, what on earth makes anyone believe they can run a HC system for everyone ? The logic just isn't there.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • tonyp063
    tonyp063 Posts: 1,044
    Tony,
    In general I agree with you. But as a point of order I'd suggest you look at the source of the "data" that Examiner quotes.
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    tonyp063 wrote: »
    Tony,
    In general I agree with you. But as a point of order I'd suggest you look at the source of the "data" that Examiner quotes.

    The Census Bureau ? If you think about that, the numbers in reality would be worse. Why ?

    Because some lie, out of fear of having the government know they are here illegally. I'm not excusing a margin of error on the other end either, but that margin of error would have to be huge to make these stats irrelevant.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's