Power amplifier with a receiver and preamp ??? HELP

Hey guys I’m running a Denon Poa 2800 amplifier with a Denon 2801 receiver. My question is when I had the power amp 2800 tested at the sellers house he tested it with a preamplifier. Once I got home I hooked up the power amp 2800 to my denon 2801 receiver yeah it does sound a lot better then it originally did but in my opinion the vocals don’t sound like their jumping out of the speaker as much as it sounded when I tested at the sellers house with his preamplifier. In my opinion from what I have heard with the tests I believe having a preamplifier rather then a receiver sounds better listening to music wise ?? What do you guys think??

I also want to ask you guys is it possible to hook up the power amplifier to a receiver and a preamplifier at the same time? Is there even any RCA cables out there that have to plugs that go into the power amplifier and then have 4 other plugs coming out on the other end? so 2 pairs of white and red cables??? Is it possible and how would I go about setting them up? Bear in mind I am also pretty new to the audio world.

Cheers

Tony

Comments

  • You need a pre with home theater pass through.
    Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 30,391
    You need a pre with home theater pass through.

    Yes and no, some will pass the signal without it.

    Or, you hook up the front left and right preouts on the receiver, to an input on the pre amp. Pre amp outputs to the amp.

    When you want to watch a movie with the receiver, you may have to also turn on the pre amp and switch to the output on the dial that the receiver is hooked up to. Some older pre amps with a standby mode may be able to pass that signal without having to turn on the pre. If not, simply turn on both the receiver and the pre.

    For music, leave the receiver off, just use the pre and the amp, providing your musical source is connected to the pre amp and not the receiver.
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  • That’s a complicated solution. Using the pre out to a pre amp input for HT means two volumes and would be difficult to match the levels of the other discrete channels. A pre with a HT pass through avoids that issue. I wouldn’t want it any other way. Or you could upgrade to a better AV PRE/PRO instead of the AVR, that would better handle two channel music. But, a separate two channel pre with a pass through still would likely provide the best results.
    Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant
  • daokidaoki Posts: 27
    Is it possible to use a preamplifier with just a receiver and no power amplifier ? Would having a preamp with a receiver imporove sound quality wise or it can’t be done ?
  • FestYboyFestYboy Posts: 3,125
    There would be no point to that.
  • daokidaoki Posts: 27
    Guessing a preamp with a receiver would just cancel each other out ? Therefor pointless
  • FestYboyFestYboy Posts: 3,125
    Receiver already has a preamp... Pre in front of another pre just adds that much more to the signal chain, which is opposite of the goal.
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 30,391
    That’s a complicated solution. Using the pre out to a pre amp input for HT means two volumes and would be difficult to match the levels of the other discrete channels. A pre with a HT pass through avoids that issue. I wouldn’t want it any other way. Or you could upgrade to a better AV PRE/PRO instead of the AVR, that would better handle two channel music. But, a separate two channel pre with a pass through still would likely provide the best results.

    Just one more set of rca cables, nothing complicated about that. Some Pre amps don't have a volume control either and that eliminates the dual volume issue.
    HT SYSTEM-2 channel
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Dynaudio Audience 72
    Polk FX500 surrounds
    Cary xciter dac
    Cullen modded Sonos
    Joule la-100 pre
    B&k Ref 4420 amp

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Analysis plus crystal oval ic's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    B&k 1430
    Tad 803 speakers
  • daokidaoki Posts: 27
    Nahhh I just forgot to mention them lol dont worry I’ve been going crazy for the past 2 weeks on what ever forums I could find regarding audio equipment and tips I have a pair of Polk Audio RTI A7s. Using a denon 2801 as receiver and Denon Poa 2800 as power amplifier. I have heard from other users and people saying that a preamp will definitely improve the sound from good to great which I believe is true as well? Because when I bought the Power amp Denon Poa 2800 I tested with sellers preamp I come home hook up my receiver and just not satisfied. Bear in mind I am fairly new to the audio world but if I never heard the power amp with the preamp I probably wouldn’t even have know what I was missing out on but now that I have I am on the hunt. All you guys know how it is! 😜. That’s why I came across the Denon PRA series and would like your suggestions if there are any preamps out there that would suit my power amp and speakers? Or should I stick with the Denon PRA series?
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 30,391
    You'd have to narrow that question down a bit, tons of pre amps out there, in any price bracket.

    How many inputs do you need ?
    What price range ?
    Do you need a remote ?
    Do you need a volume control ? Some pre amps are line stages, with no volume control.

    Also, what cables are you using to hook up the amp ? They matter, as much as your speaker cables do.
    HT SYSTEM-2 channel
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Dynaudio Audience 72
    Polk FX500 surrounds
    Cary xciter dac
    Cullen modded Sonos
    Joule la-100 pre
    B&k Ref 4420 amp

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Analysis plus crystal oval ic's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    B&k 1430
    Tad 803 speakers
  • "I got home I hooked up the power amp 2800 to my denon 2801 receiver yeah it does sound a lot better then it originally did but in my opinion the vocals don’t sound like their jumping out of the speaker as much as it sounded when I tested at the sellers house with his preamplifier."

    Did the seller have the same exact same speakers as you are using? Same cables?? Did the seller have a dedicated amp power run to his gear he was showing you? Just a few varriables that would have made that "jumping out of the speakers" thing happen?? And stick around, some of the coolest and most knowledgable people in the audio world still hang here on the forum. (I am not one of them), but honered and thankful to have met some of them, and all who have taken time to help me build a couple of decent rigs in my home. Fun hobby.
    "if it's not fun, it's not worth it!!" "Smile & Stay Warm!!"
    *****************************
  • daokidaoki Posts: 27
    edited November 2018
    Hey guys the audio game just feels like a never ending battle. I picked up the Denon Poa 2800 the other day and hooked it up with my receiver and my speakers. Yeah it sounds a lot better then originally but I’m just not satisfied I have been doing some searching and I came across the Yamaha PC2002M power amplifier and also found a Yamaha c2x preamplifier but I wanted to ask you guys first if you have ever heard of either.? I have read a lot of good reviews about both of them I feel like they would be great to accomodate my Polk rti a7s ? What do you guys think? I honestly thought I would be all happy days once I brought home the Denon Poa 2800 but it just isn’t doing it for me. The audio world is a never ending battle it seems and I’m sure you guys have had this same problem too? Just wanted to get some advice on tips on what I should do ? Or should I just keep the Denon Poa 2800? But could you guys let me know if the power amplifier for Yamaha PC2002M is better then the denon?e. Cheers guys
  • daokidaoki Posts: 27
    Ohhh yeah I forgot to mention guys If I was to use the Yamaha c2x preamp would it be possible to hook up to my smart tv? How would I go about it I was thinking a 3.5mm to rca cable ?
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 30,391
    Much of audio is by trial and error, as we all hear differently and have different preferences. You can read all the positive reviews on the planet, but it still won't tell you how a piece will sound in your room, with your ears, hooked up to your associated gear.

    It's ok if you pick up a piece and don't care for it, it happens, re-sell it and move on.

    Some things you have to know before going forward. Your system is only as good as the weakest link. One piece isn't going to transform your system into a rock star. Everything in the chain matters to the final sound you'll hear.

    That doesn't mean you have to rush out and upgrade everything at once, not many can anyway. Take a step back, let the amp settle in and re-evaluate. Maybe adding a pre-amp is the way to go, maybe better cabling, different speakers, a dac, better source for music….sometimes a piece just yearns for better playmates before we can assess it's worth.
    HT SYSTEM-2 channel
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Dynaudio Audience 72
    Polk FX500 surrounds
    Cary xciter dac
    Cullen modded Sonos
    Joule la-100 pre
    B&k Ref 4420 amp

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Analysis plus crystal oval ic's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    B&k 1430
    Tad 803 speakers
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