Audio Stories

Title says it all, tell us your audio story.... could be about an experience with a product, a person selling a product, an awesome audio experience, etc...

Post em up here!
"....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
«134

Comments

  • Dabutcher
    Dabutcher Posts: 2,588
    edited November 2018
    Started my Polk journey with Monitor 70’s on sale at Newegg. First new speakers I had ever bought. Sounded really good for the $179.00 each I paid. Became a member on this forum shortly after. Started getting my education on with this forum and everyone was raving about the SDA SRS series. So I started looking for a pair. Decided I would drive up to five hours away for a nice set. After two years searching. Some came up on my local CL. My suburb of Maplewood even. At first listed for $1500. I was thinking it over. A lot of money for twenty year old speakers. Then in a week he dropped his price to $750.00. I jumped on it. Never consulted the wife on it. Her rule was two speakers come in the house. Two have to go out. Bought them after inspecting. They were perfect with walnut trim. Wife was out of town for the weekend when I brought them home. Took a picture of my new prize and posted on FB with the caption. I have the best wife in the world. Shortly latter. All the hens in the hen house started chiming in. Saying how much trouble I was in and that they knew my wife was out of town. So she came home and bitched that we didn’t talk it over first. So I had to sleep on an air mattress next to my SDA’s for a couple of weeks. Six months later I realized why she was upset? She did not know who took my picture being home alone aledgedly. I was home alone with no female companionship and proped my iPad on a pillow and used a camera app with ten second delay. Actual first picture using iPad with app with my babies. Peace. Djytllvu83v54.jpeg
    MIT Magnum MH-750, Monster HTS 5100MKII, Sony 77" Class - A80CJ Series - 4K UHD OLED,PS4, Def Tech 15” sub,LSIM 706c, Sunfire Signature Grand 425 x 4,Parasound hca 120, LSiM 702 x 4, Oppo 103D, SDA SRS 1.2, Pioneer Elite SC63 , Pioneer Elite BDP-05 “Why did you get married if you wanted big speakers?”
  • I may have inspired this thread so I will open with an outrageous story. Before I begin, I suppose I should provide a profile:
    I'm the founder of Onkyo USA, established Integra here, and just finished 17 years with Yamaha. I'm the only independent representative in history to handle Onkyo, Integra and Denon at the same time.

    Despite that mundane background, I have a heavy high-end history so I never got rich! I made a living with mid-fi but my passion was rooted in expensive high-performance products. I participated in the launch or relaunch of the following brands (this is not all): Dahlquist, Apogee, Focal (JM Lab), AR, Sonus Faber, Pro-Ject, REL, Meitner, ELAC, Thorens, Trinnov and too many more to name. I've also represented brands from A to Z-- including Advent to Zenith. I also maintained a rep firm handling around a dozen lines you all know, I maintain a consultation business. I build and sell guitars. I write for guitar magazines. I'm a working professional musician and I'm a partner in the current Bob Carver company. It was through the latter that I was introduced to this forum via a discussion comparing the beautiful McIntosh MC 275, to our own Bob Carver 275. I started to tell stories responding to that thread (like the three Onkyos) so someone started this thread and sent me over. I'm a 50 year veteran of the industry and I love it.

    Now, despite my earlier retail experience, which I will tell you about later, on to my first audio story as a factory guy that you might find entertaining:
    I had been working with BASF on recording tape. I visited the coating plant in Massachusetts. The machine is like a giant printing press-- putting a slurry of iron oxide on what amounts to rolls of saran wrap! It must be 50 feet long and 20 feet high. It takes some serious fine-tuning to get it right. You need to polish the surface of the tape to improve tape to head contact for best high-frequency performance and the least amount of abrasion. If you polish too much, the tape sticks to the head as it passes and can cause squealing – – mechanical as well as electrical. The lab coat wearing German engineer, with a very thick accent, explained to me that it takes a year to sort out the machine. "A year?" "What exactly does that mean?", I asked. "It means we make defective tape for a full year". Incredulous, I then asked, "this machine runs 24 hours a day: what you do with all that defective tape?" He said, "we sell it to the Americans; you people don't know the difference".

    All of the tape was defective, they knew it, they didn't care, and they went down in flames before my very eyes. They went back to producing dyes and chemicals for industry. I hated it there and wanted to return to real audio.

    Here's what I did (this could be a lesson for you youngsters working at hi-fi stores). In those days, reps came by to service the accounts. They drove fancy cars, knew more about the products that we did, and they were our heroes. Since I admired them, I made sure they knew that I was enthusiastically supporting their products and, as the months unfolded, friendships were created. Networking is terribly important in any industry, but it's particularly effective if you're sincere. I loved those guys; one of them gave me the very first Empire Scientific gold tonearm for my 14th birthday!

    So here I am, desperately wanting to leave the Germans, and I made a list of my 10 favorite guys who might be in a position to help me. This was the early 1976. From this, I had three interviews. One was with Sony who had been trying to recruit me for two years. Serendipitously my Sony contact, a truly great guy named Les Pollock, told me he needed me right then and made an appointment for me to come in. When I showed up for the interview, I was told he was called to Japan suddenly and my interview would be held with a Mr. Pappas. Well, Pappas didn't know me. In an earlier time, I was one of the top retail audio salesman in the state of Illinois. McIntosh took me to their factory and wined and dined me. JBL built special speakers just for me, with my own finish. I was for a well-known here. But the Sony guy, as arrogant as the Germans, told me he didn't like my tie and insist that I shave off my beard. I told my son had never seen me without a beard and I have no intention of shaking it off for Sony, stood up to walk out, shook hands with him, and told him this: "I promise you you will know me down the road".

    When I had my Onkyo interview, their managers from Japan foolishly depended on their knowledge of English and did not bring an interpreter. They asked me if I knew any dealers in the United States. I lied of course, desperate for the job, and told them I knew EVERY dealer in the United States, I knew their wives, and I knew the names of their children. Their eyes popped out of their heads and they offered me the job. That turned out to be fortunate for us both. I doubled the business every year. They made posters of me in Japan as kind of a transformer audio monster guy and stuck the posters in the product cartons as if anyone in the United States cared. They paid me more money than I asked for and in one year, I went from being broke to buying my first home and I kicked the living daylights out of Sony in the receiver business by the time Onkyo USA was barely in existence for three years! Those were great times for me. I was 28 years old.
  • dromunds
    dromunds Posts: 9,969
    Back in the late 70's and well into the 80's, there was an audio salon near me that allowed customers to take gear home and try it out in the comfort of their own home. They had some very high end gear too. The salon was owned by an audiophile and he was a trusting soul, just had to sign your name to a sheet of paper, no formal identification etc. Myself and lots of my friends purchased some real nice gear from this guy, who later acquired a partner. I was able to try out a whole bunch of different top-end Nakamichi cassette decks, which I copiously used for making compilation tapes, as well as a variety of top shelf cartridges, amps, preamps, speakers. About the only thing I didn't try was a reel-to-reel. I ended up trading in my pair of AR-LST's to that salon, considered by some to be the best AR speakers ever made. I wish I'd kept those babies. As I mentioned, I bought and traded in lots of gear. Later, the guy went out of business and sold everything super cheap. I was back in school at that time and missed out but some of my friends got some super nice gear at rock-bottom prices. Most of them still have that gear they bought at his liquidation. I'm thinking my college roommate bought his Allison I speakers there that he still uses as surrounds, and I know he still has some early PS Audio gear such as an early phono preamp. When I went back to school I sold all my gear except my vinyl. Got back in about ten years later. By then, the salon was closed. It was much more difficult to audition gear by then. It is unfortunate that audio salons went the way of the dinosaurs. I think of all the gear the guy loaned out he only got burned a couple times. I still have a few invoices.
  • kharp1
    kharp1 Posts: 3,453
    Man, I wish that @FMalitz guy would come back when he has some stories to tell! ;)

    I love the back stories...especially the music industry back stories. These come in a close 2nd, keep them coming, please.
  • kharp1
    kharp1 Posts: 3,453
    Don, I too, miss the audio shops. Had a guy here in Louisville, Jay Carder Hi-Fidelity that had the best gear I'd heard at the time. He was mostly Mac gear (I'm sure he carried other electronics, I just don't remember them) and Klipsch, though he did carry several lines of speakers Snell, Ohm, Tannoy. He was a great guy that wanted you to get the best sound in your home. You could take anything home to try if he knew you, others would have to write a check to cover. He would hold the check and give it back when you returned it. My first visit I took home a piece and ended up in the hospital the next day. Didn't have cell phones back then and he couldn't cry hold of me. Never cashed my check. My mom got a message from him off my machine about a week later and was able to contact him.

    Bad health, and the changing landscape, finally drive him to close. Was a sad day.
  • kharp1 wrote: »
    Man, I wish that @FMalitz guy would come back when he has some stories to tell! ;)

    I love the back stories...especially the music industry back stories. These come in a close 2nd, keep them coming, please.

    I'm flattered. Okay, here's another: Although there is no Harman Kardon factory today, at one time they did make receivers. They probably still sell some surround units, made by an outside vendor in China, and good luck finding any but in any case, around 1977, they ran square wave clinics around the country. If you could match their square wave performance, on an oscilloscope, they would pay you $100.

    Since Onkyo USA was still very small and not well HK, did not know that Onkyo, at that time, like McIntosh, guaranteed their specifications (that was my decision since I was the boss). Onkyo, a truly high-performance product in the 70s, would easily match the HK square wave performance so we created a promotion: Buy an Onkyo receiver, get a $100 rebate!"

    Needless to say, they discontinued their clinics.

    Speaking of manufacturing, there is no Marantz or Denon factory; their products are manufactured by independent Chinese companies but I do believe that Marantz and Denon participate in the design-- which differs significantly, surprisingly, since they are sister companies. The Marantz product is more sophisticated and the Denon product is less expensive to manufacture-- full of integrated circuits in the audio path. With their more expensive models, either brand is capable of solid performance. There's no junk out there today.

    Onkyo is a real manufacturer. Pioneer was a great manufacturer and we bought our first DVD players from Pioneer and rebadged them as Onkyo. Now, with Onkyo owning Pioneer, their future is uncertain. Yamaha is a manufacturer (a big one) and they enjoy the number one market share in the United States and are probably the most reliable product available.

    Rotel, a family-owned company, when I started Onkyo USA, has an interesting story: Rotel began life as a Japanese OEM manufacturer for Sylvania TVs in the 1950s! The Japanese electronics company didn’t switch to audio gear until the following decade soon after Tomoki Tachikawa, now 91 years old, founded the company in 1961. Onkyo started as an aircraft headphone manufacturer right after World War II and became one of the world's largest manufacturers of OEM drivers and complete loudspeaker systems popular in Europe and Asia although they suck so they don't do well here.

    Did you know that Rotel was originally called Roland? Unable to register the Roland name worldwide, because of the musical instrument manufacturer of the same name, Rotel was derived by combining Roland and Matel, another early-years trading company of Tachikawa’s (and not the US toy giant).

    Rotel remains family managed some fifty-five years later-- a remarkable achievement but I believe they were influenced by their British distributor who strongly urged the factory to focus on high performance and high value. They're not terribly competitive but I believe Rotel to be a fine product. Onkyo was family-owned also but that was a long time ago. There are several owners now.

    By the way, despite the fact that I've worked with nearly all of these manufacturers, I am no longer affiliated with any of these so I do not have to disclose any possible conflicts of interest.

    I'm the CEO of the Bob Carver Corporation, and while there are many Bob Carver stories, I will avoid making any statements on product performance because it would compromise my credibility. Always listen for yourself anyway.

    In fact, if anyone sees this and shows any interest, I can discuss receiver brand performance and I can debunk the importance of specifications. I type poorly, and I'm very busy running four companies and three bands, so if only one person responds, it might take me a bit of time to comment.

  • mlistens03
    mlistens03 Posts: 2,767
    When I first started in audio I had a set of rock bottom Onkyo bookshelf speakers and an (actually nice, wish I still had it) Onkyo TX-v940 receiver. I don’t remember what the speakers were, but I can assure you, they were junk.

    My first experience with real good quality sound was in Norway (we were visiting family), at a shop called HiFi Klubben (or something along those lines, We are going back this Christmas so I’ll get some pics while I’m there.) I listened to their house brand speakers, which I remember the looks of, but not the name. They looked a heckuva lot like Dali Zensors. Anyways, they blew my mind, and when I went back home I decided to hunt down a better pair of speakers.

    Then I found them; my Mission Freedom 770s. They blew me completely away; the Onkyos were gone within the week. I’d never heard such good sound in my life. No way did I think it could get better. But it still is. (This was summer 2017, by the way. Not all that long ago, I’ve come a long way.) Since then, y’all pretty much know the story, as it’s all been posted here. :)
  • erniejade
    erniejade Posts: 6,288
    @FMalitz I am an Integra fan and would love to hear more. In the past I have had a m5030 and M504. The P304 Preamp . I ran them with some older JBL L150, Polk SDA 1.2, vandersteen 3A with good results. What is your thoughts on thoes amplifiers or what did you feel was their best sounding units of the time?
    Musical Fidelity Tri-Vista 300, Audioquest Thunderbird Zero Speaker Cable, Tyler Highland H2, Audioquest Thunderbird Interconnect, Innuos Zen MK3 W4S recovery, Revolution Audio Labs USB & Ethernet, Border Patrol SE-I, Audioquest Niagara 5000 & Thunder, Cullen Crossover II PC's.
  • The amps were a bit better than the pre-amps but remember, we're talking phono--very difficult to do well. The P303 was terrible. Looked great, inside and out but it sounded dead. P304 was not based on it and was pretty good. Not super vibrant but good value. The amps were not particularly powerful but had great bass. All were reliable.

    Best sounding units at that time? Depends on price range. A few examples: Low end, NAD, mid-priced, Adcom, high-priced TUBES!
  • lightman1
    lightman1 Posts: 10,776
    I bought some speakers. I can't find them.
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 32,922
    edited November 2018
    lightman1 wrote: »
    I bought some speakers. I can't find them.

    I have that problem, but I am not peripatetic as are you...
  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 24,474
    lightman1 wrote: »
    I bought some speakers. I can't find them.

    Carlton said he put them on the curb...
  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,033
    edited November 2018
    deleted.... joke was too funny for you mere mortals.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
  • mdaudioguy
    mdaudioguy Posts: 5,165
    Dabutcher wrote: »
    jytllvu83v54.jpeg
    Great story! That picture is amazing as it shows just how big those speakers really are, especially when one considers those are full length jeans you're wearing, am I right? Please tell me you're a giant and those speakers are 7 feet tall!?! :p
    Are you sure it was the speakers she was upset about?? ;)
    Sorry man, couldn't resist! Great story, though! She must be a keeper. :)
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,704
    FMalitz wrote: »
    I may have inspired this thread so I will open with an outrageous story. Before I begin, I suppose I should provide a profile:
    I'm the founder of Onkyo USA, established Integra here, and just finished 17 years with Yamaha. I'm the only independent representative in history to handle Onkyo, Integra and Denon at the same time.

    Despite that mundane background, I have a heavy high-end history so I never got rich! I made a living with mid-fi but my passion was rooted in expensive high-performance products. I participated in the launch or relaunch of the following brands (this is not all): Dahlquist, Apogee, Focal (JM Lab), AR, Sonus Faber, Pro-Ject, REL, Meitner, ELAC, Thorens, Trinnov and too many more to name. I've also represented brands from A to Z-- including Advent to Zenith. I also maintained a rep firm handling around a dozen lines you all know, I maintain a consultation business. I build and sell guitars. I write for guitar magazines. I'm a working professional musician and I'm a partner in the current Bob Carver company. It was through the latter that I was introduced to this forum via a discussion comparing the beautiful McIntosh MC 275, to our own Bob Carver 275. I started to tell stories responding to that thread (like the three Onkyos) so someone started this thread and sent me over. I'm a 50 year veteran of the industry and I love it.

    Now, despite my earlier retail experience, which I will tell you about later, on to my first audio story as a factory guy that you might find entertaining:
    I had been working with BASF on recording tape. I visited the coating plant in Massachusetts. The machine is like a giant printing press-- putting a slurry of iron oxide on what amounts to rolls of saran wrap! It must be 50 feet long and 20 feet high. It takes some serious fine-tuning to get it right. You need to polish the surface of the tape to improve tape to head contact for best high-frequency performance and the least amount of abrasion. If you polish too much, the tape sticks to the head as it passes and can cause squealing – – mechanical as well as electrical. The lab coat wearing German engineer, with a very thick accent, explained to me that it takes a year to sort out the machine. "A year?" "What exactly does that mean?", I asked. "It means we make defective tape for a full year". Incredulous, I then asked, "this machine runs 24 hours a day: what you do with all that defective tape?" He said, "we sell it to the Americans; you people don't know the difference".

    All of the tape was defective, they knew it, they didn't care, and they went down in flames before my very eyes. They went back to producing dyes and chemicals for industry. I hated it there and wanted to return to real audio.

    Here's what I did (this could be a lesson for you youngsters working at hi-fi stores). In those days, reps came by to service the accounts. They drove fancy cars, knew more about the products that we did, and they were our heroes. Since I admired them, I made sure they knew that I was enthusiastically supporting their products and, as the months unfolded, friendships were created. Networking is terribly important in any industry, but it's particularly effective if you're sincere. I loved those guys; one of them gave me the very first Empire Scientific gold tonearm for my 14th birthday!

    So here I am, desperately wanting to leave the Germans, and I made a list of my 10 favorite guys who might be in a position to help me. This was the early 1976. From this, I had three interviews. One was with Sony who had been trying to recruit me for two years. Serendipitously my Sony contact, a truly great guy named Les Pollock, told me he needed me right then and made an appointment for me to come in. When I showed up for the interview, I was told he was called to Japan suddenly and my interview would be held with a Mr. Pappas. Well, Pappas didn't know me. In an earlier time, I was one of the top retail audio salesman in the state of Illinois. McIntosh took me to their factory and wined and dined me. JBL built special speakers just for me, with my own finish. I was for a well-known here. But the Sony guy, as arrogant as the Germans, told me he didn't like my tie and insist that I shave off my beard. I told my son had never seen me without a beard and I have no intention of shaking it off for Sony, stood up to walk out, shook hands with him, and told him this: "I promise you you will know me down the road".

    When I had my Onkyo interview, their managers from Japan foolishly depended on their knowledge of English and did not bring an interpreter. They asked me if I knew any dealers in the United States. I lied of course, desperate for the job, and told them I knew EVERY dealer in the United States, I knew their wives, and I knew the names of their children. Their eyes popped out of their heads and they offered me the job. That turned out to be fortunate for us both. I doubled the business every year. They made posters of me in Japan as kind of a transformer audio monster guy and stuck the posters in the product cartons as if anyone in the United States cared. They paid me more money than I asked for and in one year, I went from being broke to buying my first home and I kicked the living daylights out of Sony in the receiver business by the time Onkyo USA was barely in existence for three years! Those were great times for me. I was 28 years old.

    That's nice, however I invented audio.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • AND you are nationwide !
    Sal Palooza
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 32,922
    la2vegas wrote: »
    deleted.... joke was too funny for you mere mortals.

    Said the motal...

    there're mortals and there are mere mortals.
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 32,922
    F1nut wrote: »
    FMalitz wrote: »
    I may have inspired this thread so I will open with an outrageous story. Before I begin, I suppose I should provide a profile:
    I'm the founder of Onkyo USA, established Integra here, and just finished 17 years with Yamaha. I'm the only independent representative in history to handle Onkyo, Integra and Denon at the same time.

    Despite that mundane background, I have a heavy high-end history so I never got rich! I made a living with mid-fi but my passion was rooted in expensive high-performance products. I participated in the launch or relaunch of the following brands (this is not all): Dahlquist, Apogee, Focal (JM Lab), AR, Sonus Faber, Pro-Ject, REL, Meitner, ELAC, Thorens, Trinnov and too many more to name. I've also represented brands from A to Z-- including Advent to Zenith. I also maintained a rep firm handling around a dozen lines you all know, I maintain a consultation business. I build and sell guitars. I write for guitar magazines. I'm a working professional musician and I'm a partner in the current Bob Carver company. It was through the latter that I was introduced to this forum via a discussion comparing the beautiful McIntosh MC 275, to our own Bob Carver 275. I started to tell stories responding to that thread (like the three Onkyos) so someone started this thread and sent me over. I'm a 50 year veteran of the industry and I love it.

    Now, despite my earlier retail experience, which I will tell you about later, on to my first audio story as a factory guy that you might find entertaining:
    I had been working with BASF on recording tape. I visited the coating plant in Massachusetts. The machine is like a giant printing press-- putting a slurry of iron oxide on what amounts to rolls of saran wrap! It must be 50 feet long and 20 feet high. It takes some serious fine-tuning to get it right. You need to polish the surface of the tape to improve tape to head contact for best high-frequency performance and the least amount of abrasion. If you polish too much, the tape sticks to the head as it passes and can cause squealing – – mechanical as well as electrical. The lab coat wearing German engineer, with a very thick accent, explained to me that it takes a year to sort out the machine. "A year?" "What exactly does that mean?", I asked. "It means we make defective tape for a full year". Incredulous, I then asked, "this machine runs 24 hours a day: what you do with all that defective tape?" He said, "we sell it to the Americans; you people don't know the difference".

    All of the tape was defective, they knew it, they didn't care, and they went down in flames before my very eyes. They went back to producing dyes and chemicals for industry. I hated it there and wanted to return to real audio.

    Here's what I did (this could be a lesson for you youngsters working at hi-fi stores). In those days, reps came by to service the accounts. They drove fancy cars, knew more about the products that we did, and they were our heroes. Since I admired them, I made sure they knew that I was enthusiastically supporting their products and, as the months unfolded, friendships were created. Networking is terribly important in any industry, but it's particularly effective if you're sincere. I loved those guys; one of them gave me the very first Empire Scientific gold tonearm for my 14th birthday!

    So here I am, desperately wanting to leave the Germans, and I made a list of my 10 favorite guys who might be in a position to help me. This was the early 1976. From this, I had three interviews. One was with Sony who had been trying to recruit me for two years. Serendipitously my Sony contact, a truly great guy named Les Pollock, told me he needed me right then and made an appointment for me to come in. When I showed up for the interview, I was told he was called to Japan suddenly and my interview would be held with a Mr. Pappas. Well, Pappas didn't know me. In an earlier time, I was one of the top retail audio salesman in the state of Illinois. McIntosh took me to their factory and wined and dined me. JBL built special speakers just for me, with my own finish. I was for a well-known here. But the Sony guy, as arrogant as the Germans, told me he didn't like my tie and insist that I shave off my beard. I told my son had never seen me without a beard and I have no intention of shaking it off for Sony, stood up to walk out, shook hands with him, and told him this: "I promise you you will know me down the road".

    When I had my Onkyo interview, their managers from Japan foolishly depended on their knowledge of English and did not bring an interpreter. They asked me if I knew any dealers in the United States. I lied of course, desperate for the job, and told them I knew EVERY dealer in the United States, I knew their wives, and I knew the names of their children. Their eyes popped out of their heads and they offered me the job. That turned out to be fortunate for us both. I doubled the business every year. They made posters of me in Japan as kind of a transformer audio monster guy and stuck the posters in the product cartons as if anyone in the United States cared. They paid me more money than I asked for and in one year, I went from being broke to buying my first home and I kicked the living daylights out of Sony in the receiver business by the time Onkyo USA was barely in existence for three years! Those were great times for me. I was 28 years old.

    That's nice, however I invented audio.

    ... and I wouldn't doubt that. Genesis doesn't mention it, but the heavens and earth were silent 'til @F1nut came along. It's in the Babylonian Enûma Eliš story of creation, you could look it up.
    :|
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    edited November 2018
    Nad, Onkyo, Denon, Pioneer......lots of other brands in that era still sought after today. Sansui, Luxman, Tandberg.....just to name a few.

    Always wondered why tubes never quite made the receiver market. Butler at one time had a full tubed receiver in the making but never made it to market. I'd imagine costs just tipped them outside the market for consumer receivers.

    Plus, with technology changing so fast, codecs, you had to have an upgrade path or a way to upgrade the software. Then came HDMI versions and you can see making a high end receiver was a losing proposition. Ask B&k about that.

    I wouldn't mind seeing a tubed processor, with a digital side that had an upgrade path. Close was the old Theta processors, minus the tubes obviously, but they had a modular design and upgrade path to them. Closest processor I ever heard that at least sounded tube like, without the tubes, is the Cary cinema 12, and I believe even they have now given up on HT processors.

    Now a 2 channel tubed receiver may have a market today. Add a way for people to play their digital devices and you could have a winner.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • dromunds
    dromunds Posts: 9,969
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    That's nice, however I invented audio.

    ... and I wouldn't doubt that. Genesis doesn't mention it, but the heavens and earth were silent 'til @F1nut came along. It's in the Babylonian Enûma Eliš story of creation, you could look it up.
    :|
    [/quote]

    Uh, actually, the creation account in the legendarium states quite clearly that the Ainur created audio prefiguring the creation of the physical universe. Just sayin'
  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,033
    I think Tony, the reason that tubes and receivers don’t work well together because they take up space and produce heat that cannot be dissipated through a heat sink. The goal of a receiver is to package things in a smaller package, and tubes did not, at that time anyway, fit the product profile.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 32,922
    There were plenty of tubed receivers domestic and foreign. You guys just didn't get out enough.

    Here're a few that happen to be... handy.

    13380269455_be7e3aac85_b.jpgSherwood S8000IV by Mark Hardy, on Flickr
    14979459776_744ed07074_b.jpgDSC_9817 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr
    13380232075_ac31d59ae1_b.jpgviscount and hk by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

    I try to keep the tube stuff and the soiled state stuff kinda sequestered. No tellin' what they might get up to late at night upstairs -- I might go up there sometime and find little chip amps or ICEpower amps or something crawling around.

    ahem

    Back on topic. I don't have one of these... but I do wish I did. Predates FTC-accepted mono-compatible MPX stereo FM, but other than that, man-o-man...drop dead s-e-x-y...

    42fieczt7jyn.png

    and a boudoir shot...

    t7gsnx2inkx5.png





  • sucks2beme
    sucks2beme Posts: 5,556
    I was in Okinawa going to look at JBL speakers at the base exchange.
    I was with a buddy, who didn't see the point of a speaker only rated at 50
    or 75 watts. The guy working there fired up the HK Citation 16 on a set
    of L65's. The sound level was mind blowing. And the amp had plenty more
    to go. That was my first lesson about speakers and clean power.
    I bought the L100's. I drove them with a Marantz 1150d integrated.
    I had those speakers up until the late 90's when the Mrs gave them
    away to a kid in the neighborhood. She hated those blue grills.
    Imagine my surprise when I flew back into to DFW and didn't see my L100's!
    I'm sure there's a ton of guys here who started with a system from the
    base exchange.
    "The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --Thomas Jefferson
  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,033
    Polk SDA 2b in light oak, a Carver M500t, DTL200 CD player, TX-11a tuner, and C1 preamp, all courtesy of the Navy Exchange at Iwakuni, Japan....
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    I know Mark, loved those old tubed receivers. See no reason why today, we can't do the same, for 2 channel anyway.

    As far as heat goes, many hybrid designs today have conquered that.

    That Carver 275, you could strap a digital processor to it for todays audio needs and it wouldn't add much space or weight.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • kharp1
    kharp1 Posts: 3,453
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    la2vegas wrote: »
    deleted.... joke was too funny for you mere mortals.

    Said the motal...

    there're mortals and there are mere mortals.

    I saw a Mere Mortals show back in the early 90's, or there bouts.
  • verb
    verb Posts: 10,176
    F1nut wrote: »

    That's nice, however I invented audio.

    Among Jesse's early adopters! :smile:
    4e09wjfawzms.png
    Basement: Polk SDA SRS 1.2tl's, Cary SLP-05 Pre with ultimate upgrade,McIntosh MCD301 CD/SACD player, Northstar Designs Excelsio DAC, Cambridge 851N streamer, McIntosh MC300 Amp, Silnote Morpheus Ref2, Series2 Digital Cables, Silnote Morpheus Ref2 Series2 XLR's, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Pangea Power Cables, MIT Shotgun S3 IC's, MIT Shotgun S1 Bi-Wire speaker cables
    Office: PC, EAR Acute CD Player, EAR 834L Pre, Northstar Designs Intenso DAC, Antique Sound Labs AV8 Monoblocks, Denon UDR-F10 Cassette, Acoustic Technologies Classic FR Speakers, SVS SB12 Plus sub, MIT AVt2 speaker cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable, Groneberg Quatro Reference IC's
    Spare Room: Dayens Ampino Integrated Amp, Tjoeb 99 tube CD player (modified Marantz CD-38), Analysis Plus Oval 9's, Zu Jumpers, AudioEngine B1 Streamer, Klipsch RB-61 v2, SVS PB1000 sub, Blue Jeans RCA IC's, Shunyata Hydra 8 Power Conditioner
    Living Room: Peachtree Nova Integrated, Cambridge CXN v2 Streamer, Rotel RCD-1072 CD player, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi sub
    Garage #1: Cambridge Audio 640A Integrated Amp, Project Box-E BT Streamer, Polk Tsi200 Bookies, Douglas Speaker Cables, Shunyata Power Conditioner
    Garage #2: Cambridge Audio EVO150 Integrated Amplifier, Polk L200's, Analysis Plus Silver Oval 2 Speaker Cables, IC's TBD.
  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,033
    edited November 2018
    F1nut wrote: »

    That's nice, however I invented audio.
    The EPA would crush anyone attempting it these days, but I have to ask... what we’re the sonic benefits of smoke signals for the transmission of an audio source. My understanding is that they were by far superior to anything available today, especially with the right rock carvings and the proper blend of hardwoods.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
  • tonyb wrote: »
    I know Mark, loved those old tubed receivers. See no reason why today, we can't do the same, for 2 channel anyway.

    As far as heat goes, many hybrid designs today have conquered that.

    That Carver 275, you could strap a digital processor to it for todays audio needs and it wouldn't add much space or weight.


    Tony, there are multiple issues here: first of all, there's the five times rule that states any improvement cost yields a five times increase in retail in order to be sustainable. If the circuit you requested costs me $25, it raises the retail price by $125. Our goal was $2500. We are already at $2750 with the addition of KT 120s. Bringing the power amplifier to $3000 and alienating audio purists is out of the question. Next, adding digital circuitry will absolutely compromise reliability over the long-term, and, ironically, over the short term as well. Ask Onkyo and Integra how much they love processing chips. Nearly put them out of business. Many of the defective Sunfire EQ sub models I handle on the side, are chip related. Currently, at the Bob Carver company, we need no service department as we have no failures.

    Next, there's a problem I will call digital signal pollution. When a/d/s/ combined their decent preamp and power amp, with their excellent FM tuner, to make the first digitally controlled receiver, it sounded far worse than either product before they were combined. In our industry, we go to great lengths to isolate the analog stream from digital switching noise. Why do you think Arcam refuses to put a DAC in their integrated amplifiers? They make some of the best sounding products world, introduced the first outboard DAC, so one might assume they know something about this.Top-of-the-line receivers typically have a separate power supply for the digital section.

    We are a boutique manufacture making specialized products with limited use, much like a Ducati sport bike, or, to take the example to an absurd extreme, my neighbor has the big Lamborghini. There's no place to drive it enthusiastically in northern Illinois. It's mostly stop and go traffic around here. He has to drive a minimum of two hours to find any twisty roads. Still, it enriches his life and one would hope that our two channel endeavors enrich someone's life as well, although we are not Bose and our audience is limited.

    Before I get back to work, I'd like to address the issue of why people do not manufacture tube type receivers:
    1) all tube electronics, properly done, cost more to manufacture. The pricing structure on receivers is extremely critical to sell through. If you examine the market, you'll notice that all the major Japanese brands are nearly identical in price, features and performance. It's a commodity business.
    2) the EPA has nothing to do with this. One of the most dangerous things you have in your home are florescent lights yet over the last eight or nine years, your government endeavored to outlaw incandescent bulbs forcing us to expose our families to the poisons blasted out by a broken florescent bulb. Apparently they rescinded that along with the help of LEDs which can also be toxic in their composition! While it's true, tubes do indeed have toxins in their guts, they are, after all, sealed. Broken glass envelopes tend to be far rarer than broken light bulbs. We can even market tubes and tube amplifiers in California!
    3) there is an innate insecurity about the maintenance and longevity of tube type electronics. That's our reason for existence. We have addressed all of the arguments except cost. And even that is been mitigated with our newest model.

    That vintage Scott piece is a work of industrial art. Their products were also high-performance until they want to solid-state. Just beautiful.