Room treatment question with SDA's

I'm looking into some bass traps and was also quoted for some panels to go behind the speakers.

Speakers in question are 2.3TL's, I dont know if this will take away from their imaging or bass response.

My room has a high amount of bass energy and the waterfall graph enforces this.

I can treat other areas if placing any panels behind SDA's is not recommended. I was going to use the GIK 244 behind the speakers, 1 panel each.

Has anyone added sound absorbing panels directly behind their speakers with any negative effects?

Comments

  • machonemachone Posts: 1,019
    I have 2.3TLs and I have bass traps but not behind the cabinets.
    My experience is that the results may be unexpected and trial and error is what worked best for me.
    Mojo Audio Joule v5>>Quantum Byte w/JRiver 24 and Fidelizer>> Starlight 7 USB >> Mojo Audio Mystique v2 SE>>ModWright SWL 9.0 SE Signature>>Hafler DH-500 Amp+ (Musical Concepts PA-6 Elite Mod)>>
    SRS 2.3TL (Fully Modified)...SDA-1A (Fully Modified with Dimensional Tweeter Delete)
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    Pioneer PLX-1000 Turntable - Shure SC35C/N35X - V15III/VN35HE
    Yamaha TX-540 Tuner...Sony BDP-S570

    Separate subpanel with four dedicated 20 amp circuits.
    1. Amplification 2. Analog 3. Digital 4. Video

    "All THAT IS LOST FROM THE SOURCE IS LOST FOREVER"
  • Mike ReeterMike Reeter Posts: 3,317
    I have 2" Panels directly behind the SDA's and Bass Traps in the corners. I hear no "ill" affects from this set-up.

    machone is spot on when he states "trial and error is what worked best for me".
    SDA SRS 2.3TL's/SDA SRS 3.1TL's/SDA CRS+4.1TL's and some other stuff
  • codycatalistcodycatalist Posts: 1,738
    Are standing waves your main issue? If so I would focus on the corners in the room, stack the bass traps from floor to ceiling. That is at least what I have read numerous times when it comes to bass traps specifically. I have heard that either first reflection point to the left and right of the speaker is good for imaging, same with in between the speakers.

    I vaguely remember someone describing a way to find the first reflection points with a mirror. Take what I say with a grain of salt, I haven't applied ANY room treatments but have researched it a bit as it is something I am in desperate need of but $$$ says no no for now.
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  • Mike ReeterMike Reeter Posts: 3,317
    edited October 24
    Are standing waves your main issue? If so I would focus on the corners in the room, stack the bass traps from floor to ceiling. That is at least what I have read numerous times when it comes to bass traps specifically. I have heard that either first reflection point to the left and right of the speaker is good for imaging, same with in between the speakers.

    I vaguely remember someone describing a way to find the first reflection points with a mirror. Take what I say with a grain of salt, I haven't applied ANY room treatments but have researched it a bit as it is something I am in desperate need of but $$$ says no no for now.

    Have someone hold a mirror up on the sidewall, while you are setting in the listening position. They move the mirror until you see your speaker reflection in full view, that's the First Reflection point.

    SDA SRS 2.3TL's/SDA SRS 3.1TL's/SDA CRS+4.1TL's and some other stuff
  • SCompRacerSCompRacer Posts: 6,953
    edited October 24
    Treatment behind speakers depends on speaker type. Dipoles, or box speakers with rear midrange openings, folks may like the rear reflection effect off wall. Treatment behind that type of speaker would cancel that. I had dipoles and ended up cancelling rear reflecion and the sweet spot became narrower and more focused. Even though SDA's are sealed in back, try it both ways, behind speakers and in corners.

    Bass is omnidirectional so as mentioned, corners are usually best for bass traps. Bass frequencies have length. In my room, bass is great in sweet spot, bass nulls out -disappears- in center of room and comes back as you get closer to speakers. Neat to experience if you never have.

    I have two GIK Tri Traps stacked in one corner and single Tri Traps in opposite corners. You can also walk/crawl around the room and find where the bass is good, isn't good or isn't there.

    I find one between speakers really tightens center imaging. I just got a GIK 2" 2' x 4' art center panel with a pic of our cat on it. I haven't hung it yet. My speakers have the option of open or closed rear midrange. I like them open and took the treatments from behind the speakers.

    The room is open to main level so no side wall to right (just a short chimney wall in corner). Over 10,000 cubic ftet so subs are needed to enhance 25-35Hz bass.

    ueocoxa302er.jpg

    This was a previous set up with ESL speakers. Turning treatments on side allowed some rear wave reflection.

    nngb0gomwazx.jpg

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  • machonemachone Posts: 1,019
    One good thing about acoustic treatment is that the results are immediate.
    No burn in required ;)
    Mojo Audio Joule v5>>Quantum Byte w/JRiver 24 and Fidelizer>> Starlight 7 USB >> Mojo Audio Mystique v2 SE>>ModWright SWL 9.0 SE Signature>>Hafler DH-500 Amp+ (Musical Concepts PA-6 Elite Mod)>>
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    Pioneer PLX-1000 Turntable - Shure SC35C/N35X - V15III/VN35HE
    Yamaha TX-540 Tuner...Sony BDP-S570

    Separate subpanel with four dedicated 20 amp circuits.
    1. Amplification 2. Analog 3. Digital 4. Video

    "All THAT IS LOST FROM THE SOURCE IS LOST FOREVER"
  • gmcmangmcman Posts: 1,271
    edited October 25
    Are standing waves your main issue? If so I would focus on the corners in the room, stack the bass traps from floor to ceiling. That is at least what I have read numerous times when it comes to bass traps specifically. I have heard that either first reflection point to the left and right of the speaker is good for imaging, same with in between the speakers.

    I vaguely remember someone describing a way to find the first reflection points with a mirror. Take what I say with a grain of salt, I haven't applied ANY room treatments but have researched it a bit as it is something I am in desperate need of but $$$ says no no for now.

    Have someone hold a mirror up on the sidewall, while you are setting in the listening position. They move the mirror until you see your speaker reflection in full view, that's the First Reflection point.

    Unfortunately the left side is a fireplace....would need a floor standing panel.

    I have treatments on the walls, behind and to the right, going to try to work on the low bass energy which is prominent in the corners and the rear wall as it should be. Wasn't sure if it was bad juju or not to treat behind the SDA's but looks like it's going to be a trial and error.
  • machonemachone Posts: 1,019
    2l037pa7u900.jpg
    I needed stands for my first reflection panels. I built these using mohagany from 1rtl7zhntf20.jpg
    Home Depot.
    Mojo Audio Joule v5>>Quantum Byte w/JRiver 24 and Fidelizer>> Starlight 7 USB >> Mojo Audio Mystique v2 SE>>ModWright SWL 9.0 SE Signature>>Hafler DH-500 Amp+ (Musical Concepts PA-6 Elite Mod)>>
    SRS 2.3TL (Fully Modified)...SDA-1A (Fully Modified with Dimensional Tweeter Delete)
    1KVA Dreadnought
    Marantz SA 8005
    Pioneer PLX-1000 Turntable - Shure SC35C/N35X - V15III/VN35HE
    Yamaha TX-540 Tuner...Sony BDP-S570

    Separate subpanel with four dedicated 20 amp circuits.
    1. Amplification 2. Analog 3. Digital 4. Video

    "All THAT IS LOST FROM THE SOURCE IS LOST FOREVER"
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 11,522
    Very nice Machone
  • SCompRacerSCompRacer Posts: 6,953
    Those are very nice stands Machone! High marks!
    Make yourself necessary to someone. Ralph Waldo Emerson

    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ & Pro 11+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS* Twisted Pear Buffalo III Dual Mono ESS Sabre32 DAC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *

  • schwarcwschwarcw Posts: 7,164
    edited October 25
    My bass changes from the sitting to standing position is most places in the room. I've been curious about using diffusers behind the fronts. My Legacy Focus speakers have rear firing (active) woofers. I have them about 22" from the rear wall. The rear reflection does a lot for the overall bass response and the width of the soundstage. I don't want to lose that as Rich noted. A diffuser behind the speakers may help blend the bass in the room height.

    Here is a link to the GIK diffusers: https://www.gikacoustics.com/product-category/diffusion-products/

    Some cool looking stuff. Anybody using these?
    Carl

  • gmcmangmcman Posts: 1,271
    machone wrote: »
    2l037pa7u900.jpg
    I needed stands for my first reflection panels. I built these using mohagany from 1rtl7zhntf20.jpg
    Home Depot.

    Nicely done!

  • gmcmangmcman Posts: 1,271
    Are standing waves your main issue? If so I would focus on the corners in the room, stack the bass traps from floor to ceiling. That is at least what I have read numerous times when it comes to bass traps specifically.

    Yeah, the wood paneling and low ceiling (91") surely don't help any. Playing some 50Hz sine waves I have a large amount of bass in 3 of my 4 corners, but this is expected. The decay time is around 400-500 ms from 40-60Hz.

    I took some of my wall mounted panels and piled them in the corners..3-4 in each corner and listened to a few tracks...the results were somewhat dramatic...I wish I tried this earlier. Granted my panels are not tried and true bass traps but it's a testament to how much blurring these uncontrolled bass waves really take away from the SQ.

    Debating the Monster traps over the Tri Traps...Tri Traps are a cleaner install but lose a little bit to the Monster traps when straddling a corner.

  • machonemachone Posts: 1,019
    I saved a lot of money building my own.
    I will post a link to my thread when I am not using this cell phone.
    Mojo Audio Joule v5>>Quantum Byte w/JRiver 24 and Fidelizer>> Starlight 7 USB >> Mojo Audio Mystique v2 SE>>ModWright SWL 9.0 SE Signature>>Hafler DH-500 Amp+ (Musical Concepts PA-6 Elite Mod)>>
    SRS 2.3TL (Fully Modified)...SDA-1A (Fully Modified with Dimensional Tweeter Delete)
    1KVA Dreadnought
    Marantz SA 8005
    Pioneer PLX-1000 Turntable - Shure SC35C/N35X - V15III/VN35HE
    Yamaha TX-540 Tuner...Sony BDP-S570

    Separate subpanel with four dedicated 20 amp circuits.
    1. Amplification 2. Analog 3. Digital 4. Video

    "All THAT IS LOST FROM THE SOURCE IS LOST FOREVER"
  • machonemachone Posts: 1,019
    Mojo Audio Joule v5>>Quantum Byte w/JRiver 24 and Fidelizer>> Starlight 7 USB >> Mojo Audio Mystique v2 SE>>ModWright SWL 9.0 SE Signature>>Hafler DH-500 Amp+ (Musical Concepts PA-6 Elite Mod)>>
    SRS 2.3TL (Fully Modified)...SDA-1A (Fully Modified with Dimensional Tweeter Delete)
    1KVA Dreadnought
    Marantz SA 8005
    Pioneer PLX-1000 Turntable - Shure SC35C/N35X - V15III/VN35HE
    Yamaha TX-540 Tuner...Sony BDP-S570

    Separate subpanel with four dedicated 20 amp circuits.
    1. Amplification 2. Analog 3. Digital 4. Video

    "All THAT IS LOST FROM THE SOURCE IS LOST FOREVER"
  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 15,136
    I've become a big fan of having larger cylindrical traps. The bandwidth they cover is larger and they are freestanding, allowing much more flexibility in placement. Depending on the system, I might find they sound best right next to the speakers, in between the speakers, near the listening position, in the corner of the room...

    Sometimes moving them a few inches completely changes the sound.

    With SDA's - CRS being the exception - I wouldn't worry about any treatments behind the speakers. If you do some on the front wall you may consider between the speakers.
    audiothesis.com/

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  • gmcmangmcman Posts: 1,271
    @machone, nice work, those came out great. Thanks for the link.

    @DSkip, I like those traps, I think I just need a different house....lol. Point taken on panels behind speakers, will save that for a trial when all else is done
  • gmcmangmcman Posts: 1,271
    As far as the corners go, I caved and ordered some Tri Traps for 3 of the corners, the 4th corner is at the base of the stairway, but will see how these 3 do first.

    Was going to try the DIY stacked triangle arrangement but my free time right now is slim.
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