Passive Radiators
Comments
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Polkaudioforumname wrote: »Most naturally aspirated engines nowadays use em. The pressure waves coming out of the intake ports from unused air "bouncing back out" is what causes the noise. Simple ones (constant volume) could only be tuned to a specific operating frequency.
Some of em today (depending on how much money you want to spend) have active controls and adjustable chamber volume to cover a wide range of operating conditions.
This being a speaker forum leaves me doubting the appropriateness of pursuing this with you. I would suggest you look into the research done by Chrysler on Ram Charging. Wave vs. pulse and their cyclic nature due to positive and negative pressures along with where and how pressure equilibrium in a naturally aspirated engine is achieved is explained.
Hey no worries! Thanks for the link, I’ll be sure to look at it!Basement: Polk SDA SRS 1.2tl's, Cary SLP-05 Pre with ultimate upgrade,McIntosh MCD301 CD/SACD player, Northstar Designs Excelsio DAC, Cambridge 851N streamer, McIntosh MC300 Amp, Silnote Morpheus Ref2, Series2 Digital Cables, Silnote Morpheus Ref2 Series2 XLR's, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Pangea Power Cables, MIT Shotgun S3 IC's, MIT Shotgun S1 Bi-Wire speaker cables
Office: PC, EAR Acute CD Player, EAR 834L Pre, Northstar Designs Intenso DAC, Antique Sound Labs AV8 Monoblocks, Denon UDR-F10 Cassette, Acoustic Technologies Classic FR Speakers, SVS SB12 Plus sub, MIT AVt2 speaker cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable, Groneberg Quatro Reference IC's
Spare Room: Dayens Ampino Integrated Amp, Tjoeb 99 tube CD player (modified Marantz CD-38), Analysis Plus Oval 9's, Zu Jumpers, AudioEngine B1 Streamer, Klipsch RB-61 v2, SVS PB1000 sub, Blue Jeans RCA IC's, Shunyata Hydra 8 Power Conditioner
Living Room: Peachtree Nova Integrated, Cambridge CXN v2 Streamer, Rotel RCD-1072 CD player, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi sub
Garage #1: Cambridge Audio 640A Integrated Amp, Project Box-E BT Streamer, Polk Tsi200 Bookies, Douglas Speaker Cables, Shunyata Power Conditioner
Garage #2: Cambridge Audio EVO150 Integrated Amplifier, Polk L200's, Analysis Plus Silver Oval 2 Speaker Cables, IC's TBD. -
As far as I am concerned, this is your thread so you can talk about whatever you like in it.Polkaudioforumname wrote: »Does this suggest it would be appropriate? Being new here I'm careful. Some forums are full of "police" just waiting to shoot someone.
The pug was just my way of having fun.
The member "verb" is one of the nicest people here, plus he has a great sense of humor. Definitely someone worth getting to know.
"mhardy6647", AKA "Mark", "Doc", and "Professor", is also very knowledgeable on a number of subjects. He is known for providing PLENTY of information when a thread interests him. And his sense of humor ranges from the obscure to the brilliant.
I don't get the initial reference to "Dinsdale", but I am quite familiar with the Piranha Brothers (Doug & Dinsdale), although I have never had my head nailed to a table.
Why Jimmy, I didn’t know you cared! Basement: Polk SDA SRS 1.2tl's, Cary SLP-05 Pre with ultimate upgrade,McIntosh MCD301 CD/SACD player, Northstar Designs Excelsio DAC, Cambridge 851N streamer, McIntosh MC300 Amp, Silnote Morpheus Ref2, Series2 Digital Cables, Silnote Morpheus Ref2 Series2 XLR's, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Pangea Power Cables, MIT Shotgun S3 IC's, MIT Shotgun S1 Bi-Wire speaker cables
Office: PC, EAR Acute CD Player, EAR 834L Pre, Northstar Designs Intenso DAC, Antique Sound Labs AV8 Monoblocks, Denon UDR-F10 Cassette, Acoustic Technologies Classic FR Speakers, SVS SB12 Plus sub, MIT AVt2 speaker cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable, Groneberg Quatro Reference IC's
Spare Room: Dayens Ampino Integrated Amp, Tjoeb 99 tube CD player (modified Marantz CD-38), Analysis Plus Oval 9's, Zu Jumpers, AudioEngine B1 Streamer, Klipsch RB-61 v2, SVS PB1000 sub, Blue Jeans RCA IC's, Shunyata Hydra 8 Power Conditioner
Living Room: Peachtree Nova Integrated, Cambridge CXN v2 Streamer, Rotel RCD-1072 CD player, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi sub
Garage #1: Cambridge Audio 640A Integrated Amp, Project Box-E BT Streamer, Polk Tsi200 Bookies, Douglas Speaker Cables, Shunyata Power Conditioner
Garage #2: Cambridge Audio EVO150 Integrated Amplifier, Polk L200's, Analysis Plus Silver Oval 2 Speaker Cables, IC's TBD. -
Sorry for the confusion. I helped Dinsdale ( he's from some place called Luton) build his Enigma (He let me name it hehe).... This thing has a rear mounted Corvette transaxle....
https://youtu.be/JtjQG9bNTfY
Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists. -
As far as I am concerned, this is your thread so you can talk about whatever you like in it.Polkaudioforumname wrote: »Does this suggest it would be appropriate? Being new here I'm careful. Some forums are full of "police" just waiting to shoot someone. The pug was just my way of having fun.
The member "verb" is one of the nicest people here, plus he has a great sense of humor. Definitely someone worth getting to know.
"mhardy6647", AKA "Mark", "Doc", and "Professor", is also very knowledgeable on a number of subjects. He is known for providing PLENTY of information when a thread interests him. And his sense of humor ranges from the obscure to the brilliant.
I don't get the initial reference to "Dinsdale", but I am quite familiar with the Piranha Brothers (Doug & Dinsdale), although I have never had my head nailed to a table.
Thanks for the insight Viking64. So far I'd say everyone has been helpful and friendly. Being new though I wasn't sure if I had crossed some line. You're right about "Doc." He's obviously a bright guy that knows his stuff.
I'm not a Monty Python aficionado but I remember something about Dinsdale and silly walks. -
Verb,
Just helpful FYI I hope. Air does not come back up a runner or intake manifold. It hits the back of a closed intake valve and stalls there. A positive pressure pulse does come back up the runner but again stalls at the plenum. Here the pulse has a phase shift to a negative pressure pulse and goes back down the runner to complete a cycle. There are a series of 5 harmonic pulse cycles before the valve reopens. The first pulse is too fast to be managed. Runner lengths are tuned to the second and third pulse for maximizing engine torque. Runner lengths are tuned to the fourth and fifth pulse to maximize HP. The daily driver engine is tuned to some determined happy medium. Chrysler's Ram Charging research by Thorton and Stoops is fully documented and available. They developed the formulas and constants necessary to use the information. Years ago I worked with Thorton and he's the one that taught me this. Thorton was the head of Mopar's performance department during the 60's. Before my time though. Today their work is standard automotive engineering text. -
Polkaudioforumname wrote: »Thanks for the insight Viking64. So far I'd say everyone has been helpful and friendly. Being new though I wasn't sure if I had crossed some line. You're right about "Doc." He's obviously a bright guy that knows his stuff.
I'm not a Monty Python aficionado but I remember something about Dinsdale and silly walks.
There are a great number of helpful and friendly people here and the combined wealth of knowledge is staggering. Not everyone will agree on every subject, but this allows you to view things from different perspectives.
Ah yes, the Ministry of Silly Walks. John Cleese and his pavement (Brit-speak for "sidewalk") acrobatics. Now here is a much more obscure MP line: "There's a Mr. Paget...." -
Polkaudioforumname wrote: »Verb,
Just helpful FYI I hope. Air does not come back up a runner or intake manifold. It hits the back of a closed intake valve and stalls there. A positive pressure pulse does come back up the runner but again stalls at the plenum. Here the pulse has a phase shift to a negative pressure pulse and goes back down the runner to complete a cycle. There are a series of 5 harmonic pulse cycles before the valve reopens. The first pulse is too fast to be managed. Runner lengths are tuned to the second and third pulse for maximizing engine torque. Runner lengths are tuned to the fourth and fifth pulse to maximize HP. The daily driver engine is tuned to some determined happy medium. Chrysler's Ram Charging research by Thorton and Stoops is fully documented and available. They developed the formulas and constants necessary to use the information. Years ago I worked with Thorton and he's the one that taught me this. Thorton was the head of Mopar's performance department during the 60's. Before my time though. Today their work is standard automotive engineering text.
Hmmmmm....I don't recognize that as a Monty Python skit. Perhaps it's Fry and Laurie (before Hugh became House, M.D.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noSOFIJdfwM -
Hmmmmm....I don't recognize that as a Monty Python skit. Perhaps it's Fry and Laurie (before Hugh became House, M.D.)
Nobody ever remembers the credit sequences. Per my ex about House. What comes first, the prck or addict?
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Polkaudioforumname wrote: »Verb,
Just helpful FYI I hope. Air does not come back up a runner or intake manifold. It hits the back of a closed intake valve and stalls there. A positive pressure pulse does come back up the runner but again stalls at the plenum. Here the pulse has a phase shift to a negative pressure pulse and goes back down the runner to complete a cycle. There are a series of 5 harmonic pulse cycles before the valve reopens. The first pulse is too fast to be managed. Runner lengths are tuned to the second and third pulse for maximizing engine torque. Runner lengths are tuned to the fourth and fifth pulse to maximize HP. The daily driver engine is tuned to some determined happy medium. Chrysler's Ram Charging research by Thorton and Stoops is fully documented and available. They developed the formulas and constants necessary to use the information. Years ago I worked with Thorton and he's the one that taught me this. Thorton was the head of Mopar's performance department during the 60's. Before my time though. Today their work is standard automotive engineering text.
I thought you didn’t want to continue this discussion? I suggest to read up on Hemholtz resonators for automotive air induction systems. The dynamic pressure waves do in fact reverse direction and travel backwards. FWIW. Many engineering papers written on the subject.Basement: Polk SDA SRS 1.2tl's, Cary SLP-05 Pre with ultimate upgrade,McIntosh MCD301 CD/SACD player, Northstar Designs Excelsio DAC, Cambridge 851N streamer, McIntosh MC300 Amp, Silnote Morpheus Ref2, Series2 Digital Cables, Silnote Morpheus Ref2 Series2 XLR's, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Pangea Power Cables, MIT Shotgun S3 IC's, MIT Shotgun S1 Bi-Wire speaker cables
Office: PC, EAR Acute CD Player, EAR 834L Pre, Northstar Designs Intenso DAC, Antique Sound Labs AV8 Monoblocks, Denon UDR-F10 Cassette, Acoustic Technologies Classic FR Speakers, SVS SB12 Plus sub, MIT AVt2 speaker cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable, Groneberg Quatro Reference IC's
Spare Room: Dayens Ampino Integrated Amp, Tjoeb 99 tube CD player (modified Marantz CD-38), Analysis Plus Oval 9's, Zu Jumpers, AudioEngine B1 Streamer, Klipsch RB-61 v2, SVS PB1000 sub, Blue Jeans RCA IC's, Shunyata Hydra 8 Power Conditioner
Living Room: Peachtree Nova Integrated, Cambridge CXN v2 Streamer, Rotel RCD-1072 CD player, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi sub
Garage #1: Cambridge Audio 640A Integrated Amp, Project Box-E BT Streamer, Polk Tsi200 Bookies, Douglas Speaker Cables, Shunyata Power Conditioner
Garage #2: Cambridge Audio EVO150 Integrated Amplifier, Polk L200's, Analysis Plus Silver Oval 2 Speaker Cables, IC's TBD. -
And in The Book, chapter 1, verse 1 -- it is written.(Scholars were surprised when they deciphered the cuneiform and the first words were "y'all". Noam Chomsky considered relinquishing his PhD.
Oh, and just don't ask me about car amplifiers. Total vacuum from the neck up here on that topic!
Post edited by [Deleted User] on -
Polkaudioforumname wrote: »Verb,
Just helpful FYI I hope. Air does not come back up a runner or intake manifold. It hits the back of a closed intake valve and stalls there. A positive pressure pulse does come back up the runner but again stalls at the plenum. Here the pulse has a phase shift to a negative pressure pulse and goes back down the runner to complete a cycle. There are a series of 5 harmonic pulse cycles before the valve reopens. The first pulse is too fast to be managed. Runner lengths are tuned to the second and third pulse for maximizing engine torque. Runner lengths are tuned to the fourth and fifth pulse to maximize HP. The daily driver engine is tuned to some determined happy medium. Chrysler's Ram Charging research by Thorton and Stoops is fully documented and available. They developed the formulas and constants necessary to use the information. Years ago I worked with Thorton and he's the one that taught me this. Thorton was the head of Mopar's performance department during the 60's. Before my time though. Today their work is standard automotive engineering text.
I thought you didn’t want to continue this discussion? I suggest to read up on Hemholtz resonators for automotive air induction systems. The dynamic pressure waves do in fact reverse direction and travel backwards. FWIW. Many engineering papers written on the subject.Polkaudioforumname wrote: »Verb,
Just helpful FYI I hope. Air does not come back up a runner or intake manifold. It hits the back of a closed intake valve and stalls there. A positive pressure pulse does come back up the runner but again stalls at the plenum. Here the pulse has a phase shift to a negative pressure pulse and goes back down the runner to complete a cycle. There are a series of 5 harmonic pulse cycles before the valve reopens. The first pulse is too fast to be managed. Runner lengths are tuned to the second and third pulse for maximizing engine torque. Runner lengths are tuned to the fourth and fifth pulse to maximize HP. The daily driver engine is tuned to some determined happy medium. Chrysler's Ram Charging research by Thorton and Stoops is fully documented and available. They developed the formulas and constants necessary to use the information. Years ago I worked with Thorton and he's the one that taught me this. Thorton was the head of Mopar's performance department during the 60's. Before my time though. Today their work is standard automotive engineering text.
I thought you didn’t want to continue this discussion? I suggest to read up on Hemholtz resonators for automotive air induction systems. The dynamic pressure waves do in fact reverse direction and travel backwards. FWIW. Many engineering papers written on the subject.
It wasn't so much I didn't want to pursue the topic, it was my thought from some of what had been written. Being new here it was explained to me I was wrong.
Your original comment stated, "pressure wave from air bouncing back out." My post in response is about air does not bounce back out. It stalls at the intake valve. Pressure reverses, not air. Second is it's not a wave. It's a pulse and each successive pulse is the result of it's own characteristic phenomenon. Agreed, many papers on the subject. -
Hi, very new to this forum and not sure if this is the appropriate place to post this question but here it goes. I recently just picked up a pair of Monitor 10's, but noticed that one of the passive radiators is not moving or producing sound. Where would be a good place to start to troubleshoot this problem? Any input will be appreciated, thanks.
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Hi, very new to this forum and not sure if this is the appropriate place to post this question but here it goes. I recently just picked up a pair of Monitor 10's, but noticed that one of the passive radiators is not moving or producing sound. Where would be a good place to start to troubleshoot this problem? Any input will be appreciated, thanks.
First, do the push test: gently push in the center of the passive, hold, and watch the mid woofers. If all is good, the mids will push out and stay out for at least 3 seconds before dropping back to their resting position. If nothing happens or they drop back to rest before 3 seconds, there's an air leak or you have a locked coil. -
Passive radiators make no sound....
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Yall see! First and foremost...
Jesse is an as$hole....
It's just not possible to agree, like and LOL all at once. Imagine Jesse sitting on his throne, swiping away at his iPad and dispensing with the snarky comments.
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Passive radiators make no sound....
This statement is true only if the passive is by itself, which it is not if it's installed in a cabinet with other active speakers, which it is... -
Hi, very new to this forum and not sure if this is the appropriate place to post this question but here it goes. I recently just picked up a pair of Monitor 10's, but noticed that one of the passive radiators is not moving or producing sound. Where would be a good place to start to troubleshoot this problem? Any input will be appreciated, thanks.
First, do the push test: gently push in the center of the passive, hold, and watch the mid woofers. If all is good, the mids will push out and stay out for at least 3 seconds before dropping back to their resting position. If nothing happens or they drop back to rest before 3 seconds, there's an air leak or you have a locked coil.
Thank you for the reply FestYboy. I did push test; pushed the center of the passive and the mids did move forward. Although they moved forward they seemed to drop back a little, not all the way to resting position, but almost instantly after applying pressure to the passive. I did the test with both speakers and noticed no difference between the speaker that is working properly and the one that is not. How would I know if one of the mids has a locked coil? -
Ok ok it resonates sound but does not itself make sound.
Hows that? You would be surprised how many think it is a woofer, that was the point i was trying to point out.
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Ok ok it resonates sound but does not itself make sound.
Hows that? You would be surprised how many think it is a woofer, that was the point i was trying to point out.
Fair enough
Pushing on the passive would result in absolutely no movement at the midwoofer.How would I know if one of the mids has a locked coil?
It may be possible that one of the midwoofers is wired out of phase... If so, there would be a net result of "0" passive movement.
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Pushing on the passive would result in absolutely no movement at the midwoofer.How would I know if one of the mids has a locked coil?
It may be possible that one of the midwoofers is wired out of phase... If so, there would be a net result of "0" passive movement.
[/quote]
The mids were out of phase. If you notice the connections, they appear to be in correct orientation, but if you look closely the "crimped" side is flipped on pic two. So I just flipped the connectors and boom, back in business. I guess someone has previously opened it up and didn't connect them back correctly. Thanks again FestYboy for your reply and help.
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Sweet!
Just so you know, the white cables go to the red side, and black to the uncolored. FWIW. Glad it’s working again! -
The mids were out of phase. If you notice the connections, they appear to be in correct orientation, but if you look closely the "crimped" side is flipped on pic two. So I just flipped the connectors and boom, back in business. I guess someone has previously opened it up and didn't connect them back correctly. Thanks again FestYboy for your reply and help.
The terminals don't care which way they are attached to the tabs. You had an oxidized connection. By removing the terminals and putting them back on you created a cleaner contact. You should seriously consider treating the terminals and tabs with DeOxit followed up with Pro Gold.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
mlistens03 wrote: »Sweet!
Just so you know, the white cables go to the red side, and black to the uncolored. FWIW. Glad it’s working again!
Incorrect.
Black or blue is positive (red)
White or green is negativePolitical Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
mlistens03 wrote: »Sweet!
Just so you know, the white cables go to the red side, and black to the uncolored. FWIW. Glad it’s working again!
Incorrect.
Black or blue is positive (red)
White or green is negative
Really? That seems backwards to just about every other speaker.
Thanks for correcting me, I’ll now go and switch mine... -
That is the way all vintage Polk speakers are wired. They followed the way colors are used in electrical wiring. Other speaker companies do it differently.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
That is the way all vintage Polk speakers are wired. They followed the way colors are used in electrical wiring. Other speaker companies do it differently.
Thank you F1nut for clarifying this before I went and switched them around. I will also hit them with deoxit and pro gold like advised. I have a question about the tweeter, what is the correct orientation for positive/negative since there doesn't seem to have a red mark on either side. This is what mine looks like presently, picture was taken flipped up and angled down toward the mids.
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Some of the sl2000's had positive and negative on the backside of the plastic bezel.
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Some of the sl2000's had positive and negative on the backside of the plastic bezel.
Thanks for the reply pitdogg2, after looking a closer I did notice a + symbol where the black wire is connected so looks like its hooked up correctly. Oh ya! -
DeOxit - self-explanitory. Is Pro Gold an anti-oxidant? Thnx...treating the terminals and tabs with DeOxit followed up with Pro Gold.
Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED, Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro Samsung BDP, Amazon Firestick, Phillips CD Changer Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside*; Ctr Ch outside BJC 10 ga: LCR mids “Foamed & Plugged**”, inside* & out
8 ga Powerline: LR woofers, inside* & out
*soldered **Rob the Man (Xschop) LR: Tri-amped RTi A7 w/Rotels. Woofers - 980BX; Tweets & Mids - 981, connected w/Monoprice Premiere ICs
Ctr Ch: Rotel RB981 -> Bi-amped CSi A6 Surrounds: Premiere ICs ->Rotel 981 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3. 5 Subs: Sunfire True SW Signature -> LFE & Ctr Ch; 4 Audio Pro Evidence @ the “Corners”. Power Conditioning & Distribution: 4 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 5 Furman Miniport 20s -
Yes it is and it helps to conduct electricity better.
![[Deleted User]](https://w8.vanillicon.com/87d77771c4d11ba1140f7ecfd7478ce9_100.png)
