RTi6's in need of repair or...?

Gurm42Gurm42 Posts: 30
So I picked up a pair of RTi6's cheap. They weren't obviously blown, and I didn't get a chance to listen to them but they were... cheap. Anyway, now that I've had a chance to check them out, they sound quite tinny and hollow. Definitely not what I was expecting. What am I looking for here? The cones seem to move fine, but they just sound lousy. Is this a blown crossover? They both sound bad, I suspect they were abused more than I was led to believe, but I'll never get my money back at this point (and it wasn't enough to chase someone over). But it might be a fun project to pop them open and try to fix them. Ideas on where to start?
Home Theater:
Yamaha RX-V377 AVR
Polk Monitor 70 Series II (Front)
Polk Monitor 15C (Center)
Polk Monitor 40 (Rear)
Polk PSW-110 (Sub)
LG 60" Plasma (6650)

Comments

  • mlistens03mlistens03 Posts: 2,332
    Pull the XO, and look for damaged components on the board.
    Also try and gently push on the speaker cones, I usually put a thumb next to the dust cap, opposite each other. If they easily move without making any noise, you are good. If they require a good amount of force, and make grinding sounds, you need new drivers.
    If everything is good, then check for speakers wired out of phase.
    Other than that, I got nothing.
    Welcome to Club Polk. :)
    Micah

    Main system: Technics SL3200, Shure M97xE, Lafayette LR1100 for tuner, Hagerman Audio Labs Bugle 2 phono stage, NAD C352 integrated, Boston Acoustics VR 2, Boston PV500, generic ICs, and BJC Belden speaker cables.

    Desktop: Dell Precision 690 running iTunes, Yamaha RX-v665, Monitor Audio R90s, Velodyne VA-907, generic ICs and speaker cables.
    I've always thought the goal of high-end audio was not to have your neighbors bang on the wall and say, 'Turn that darn music down' but to have your neighbors bang on the wall and say, 'Tell your friends to go home and you can practice later this week'.
  • rooftop59rooftop59 Posts: 4,756
    edited October 2
    3hepa5inl76w.jpeg
    There are two sets of binding posts in the back of each speaker. They should be connected by a little gold bar (black to black, red to red). If nothing is connecting them, get some speaker wire and use that to connect them.
    HT Rig:
    Denon AVR-X4200w; Peachtree Audio Nova Integrated; Bryson BPD-1; Mains: Dynaudio Emit 10 + MartinLogan Dynamo (original) sub; Center - Polk cs400i; Heights, Center Surround - Klipsch KHC - 6 In-Ceiling; Surrounds - Monoprice in-ceiling; Sub - SVS PB10-ISD; LG UP870 4K BDP

    Master Bedroom
    Marantz SR-5007; Peachtree Audio NovaPre; Audiosource Amp Two, PSB Imagine B, Boston VR-10 center, NHT Super One CI surrounds, ACI Titan subwoofer, Squeezebox Touch
  • krazypolkkrazypolk Posts: 305
    rooftop59 wrote: »
    3hepa5inl76w.jpeg
    There are two sets of binding posts in the back of each speaker. They should be connected by a little gold bar (black to black, red to red). If nothing is connecting them, get some speaker wire and use that to connect them.

    This might be a better illustration of what @rooftop59 is trying to convey. a0euo6w6iryh.jpg
  • Gurm42Gurm42 Posts: 30
    They are bound, that's the first thing I checked. But I can pull the caps offs and make sure that the connections to the binding clips are good.
    Home Theater:
    Yamaha RX-V377 AVR
    Polk Monitor 70 Series II (Front)
    Polk Monitor 15C (Center)
    Polk Monitor 40 (Rear)
    Polk PSW-110 (Sub)
    LG 60" Plasma (6650)
  • rooftop59rooftop59 Posts: 4,756
    Next check the internal wiring. I once had an older pair of polks that had a wire loose after shipping. Simple fix.
    HT Rig:
    Denon AVR-X4200w; Peachtree Audio Nova Integrated; Bryson BPD-1; Mains: Dynaudio Emit 10 + MartinLogan Dynamo (original) sub; Center - Polk cs400i; Heights, Center Surround - Klipsch KHC - 6 In-Ceiling; Surrounds - Monoprice in-ceiling; Sub - SVS PB10-ISD; LG UP870 4K BDP

    Master Bedroom
    Marantz SR-5007; Peachtree Audio NovaPre; Audiosource Amp Two, PSB Imagine B, Boston VR-10 center, NHT Super One CI surrounds, ACI Titan subwoofer, Squeezebox Touch
  • rooftop59rooftop59 Posts: 4,756
    Also replace the gold straps with decent wire. That was the purpose of the lsiM pic :p
    HT Rig:
    Denon AVR-X4200w; Peachtree Audio Nova Integrated; Bryson BPD-1; Mains: Dynaudio Emit 10 + MartinLogan Dynamo (original) sub; Center - Polk cs400i; Heights, Center Surround - Klipsch KHC - 6 In-Ceiling; Surrounds - Monoprice in-ceiling; Sub - SVS PB10-ISD; LG UP870 4K BDP

    Master Bedroom
    Marantz SR-5007; Peachtree Audio NovaPre; Audiosource Amp Two, PSB Imagine B, Boston VR-10 center, NHT Super One CI surrounds, ACI Titan subwoofer, Squeezebox Touch
  • K_MK_M Posts: 1,045
    IS there sound coming out of the woofers?
    Lsi15, Lsi9, LsiC,Rta11t,M5jr+,M4,SDA 3.1TL, SDA SRS 2.3TL, Rti6....Still listing stuff, a work in progress.
    B+W-
    Epos-
    Infinity-
    Advent-

  • Gurm42Gurm42 Posts: 30
    I'm going to figure that out tonight. Perhaps not - it's possible something about the bi-wiring is screwed up, so step 1 is to remove the gold plates and install bridge wires.
    Home Theater:
    Yamaha RX-V377 AVR
    Polk Monitor 70 Series II (Front)
    Polk Monitor 15C (Center)
    Polk Monitor 40 (Rear)
    Polk PSW-110 (Sub)
    LG 60" Plasma (6650)
  • verbverb Posts: 4,010
    mlistens03 wrote: »
    Pull the XO, and look for damaged components on the board.
    Also try and gently push on the speaker cones, I usually put a thumb next to the dust cap, opposite each other. If they easily move without making any noise, you are good. If they require a good amount of force, and make grinding sounds, you need new drivers.
    If everything is good, then check for speakers wired out of phase.
    Other than that, I got nothing.
    Welcome to Club Polk. :)

    Good advice here Micah! I need to perform that test on my SRS's tomorrow, just to be sure before I hook em up!
    Basement: Polk SDA SRS, Micro Seiki MB14 TT, VTL 2.5 Preamplifier, Marantz CD6006 CDP, Conrad Johnson MF2300A Amp, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, AQ Diamondback (version 1) RCA IC's, MIT Terminator2 Bi-Wire speaker cables
    Office: PC, Marantz CD-1, Marantz AMP-1, Acoustic Technologies Classic Speakers, Polk PSWi225 wireless sub, MIT AVt2 speaker cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable
    Spare Room: Dayens Ampino Integrated, Project BoxE, Polk TSi200's
    Living Room: Pioneer SX-N30 Network Receiver, Pioneer PD10AE CD Player, Furman M8-LX Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi Subwoofer
  • mlistens03mlistens03 Posts: 2,332
    verb wrote: »
    mlistens03 wrote: »
    Pull the XO, and look for damaged components on the board.
    Also try and gently push on the speaker cones, I usually put a thumb next to the dust cap, opposite each other. If they easily move without making any noise, you are good. If they require a good amount of force, and make grinding sounds, you need new drivers.
    If everything is good, then check for speakers wired out of phase.
    Other than that, I got nothing.
    Welcome to Club Polk. :)

    Good advice here Micah! I need to perform that test on my SRS's tomorrow, just to be sure before I hook em up!

    Thanks!
    Micah

    Main system: Technics SL3200, Shure M97xE, Lafayette LR1100 for tuner, Hagerman Audio Labs Bugle 2 phono stage, NAD C352 integrated, Boston Acoustics VR 2, Boston PV500, generic ICs, and BJC Belden speaker cables.

    Desktop: Dell Precision 690 running iTunes, Yamaha RX-v665, Monitor Audio R90s, Velodyne VA-907, generic ICs and speaker cables.
    I've always thought the goal of high-end audio was not to have your neighbors bang on the wall and say, 'Turn that darn music down' but to have your neighbors bang on the wall and say, 'Tell your friends to go home and you can practice later this week'.
  • Gurm42Gurm42 Posts: 30
    So it's NOT the woofer/midrange drivers. Those are moving just fine, and the bass is coming through with no issues - I spent a little time today setting up a test rig, so that I could a/b my RTi4's and the RTi6's. There's a distinct lack of clarity, so either the tweeters are shot (harder to physically test them, there's nothing to move) or it's the crossovers or wiring. I'm going to pull the crossovers out and the tweeters off tomorrow.
    Home Theater:
    Yamaha RX-V377 AVR
    Polk Monitor 70 Series II (Front)
    Polk Monitor 15C (Center)
    Polk Monitor 40 (Rear)
    Polk PSW-110 (Sub)
    LG 60" Plasma (6650)
  • rooftop59rooftop59 Posts: 4,756
    Gurm42 wrote: »
    So it's NOT the woofer/midrange drivers. Those are moving just fine, and the bass is coming through with no issues - I spent a little time today setting up a test rig, so that I could a/b my RTi4's and the RTi6's. There's a distinct lack of clarity, so either the tweeters are shot (harder to physically test them, there's nothing to move) or it's the crossovers or wiring. I'm going to pull the crossovers out and the tweeters off tomorrow.

    Pull the tweeters and test them individually. After you make sure that they are connected internally of course...
    HT Rig:
    Denon AVR-X4200w; Peachtree Audio Nova Integrated; Bryson BPD-1; Mains: Dynaudio Emit 10 + MartinLogan Dynamo (original) sub; Center - Polk cs400i; Heights, Center Surround - Klipsch KHC - 6 In-Ceiling; Surrounds - Monoprice in-ceiling; Sub - SVS PB10-ISD; LG UP870 4K BDP

    Master Bedroom
    Marantz SR-5007; Peachtree Audio NovaPre; Audiosource Amp Two, PSB Imagine B, Boston VR-10 center, NHT Super One CI surrounds, ACI Titan subwoofer, Squeezebox Touch
  • Gurm42Gurm42 Posts: 30
    rooftop59 wrote: »
    Pull the tweeters and test them individually. After you make sure that they are connected internally of course...

    Yeah that's my plan. I find it a little unusual that BOTH speakers are exhibiting this problem, I figure the previous owner either blasted them far too loud or had them wired incorrectly such that whatever happened, happened to both.

    Next step is to pull crossover schematics.

    Home Theater:
    Yamaha RX-V377 AVR
    Polk Monitor 70 Series II (Front)
    Polk Monitor 15C (Center)
    Polk Monitor 40 (Rear)
    Polk PSW-110 (Sub)
    LG 60" Plasma (6650)
  • Gurm42Gurm42 Posts: 30
    Ok. Swapped the tweeters into a pair of RTi4's (they're the same part) and they sound fine. I'm debating how to test the midrange drivers, not sure the RTi4 crossovers will handle them...
    Home Theater:
    Yamaha RX-V377 AVR
    Polk Monitor 70 Series II (Front)
    Polk Monitor 15C (Center)
    Polk Monitor 40 (Rear)
    Polk PSW-110 (Sub)
    LG 60" Plasma (6650)
  • mlistens03mlistens03 Posts: 2,332
    Gurm42 wrote: »
    Ok. Swapped the tweeters into a pair of RTi4's (they're the same part) and they sound fine. I'm debating how to test the midrange drivers, not sure the RTi4 crossovers will handle them...

    I think your issue is the crossover. You can certainly plug in the drivers to the RTi4 crossover though. I wouldn’t do it for long, but just quickly check it and see what happens.
    Micah

    Main system: Technics SL3200, Shure M97xE, Lafayette LR1100 for tuner, Hagerman Audio Labs Bugle 2 phono stage, NAD C352 integrated, Boston Acoustics VR 2, Boston PV500, generic ICs, and BJC Belden speaker cables.

    Desktop: Dell Precision 690 running iTunes, Yamaha RX-v665, Monitor Audio R90s, Velodyne VA-907, generic ICs and speaker cables.
    I've always thought the goal of high-end audio was not to have your neighbors bang on the wall and say, 'Turn that darn music down' but to have your neighbors bang on the wall and say, 'Tell your friends to go home and you can practice later this week'.
  • Gurm42Gurm42 Posts: 30
    mlistens03 wrote: »
    Gurm42 wrote: »
    Ok. Swapped the tweeters into a pair of RTi4's (they're the same part) and they sound fine. I'm debating how to test the midrange drivers, not sure the RTi4 crossovers will handle them...

    I think your issue is the crossover. You can certainly plug in the drivers to the RTi4 crossover though. I wouldn’t do it for long, but just quickly check it and see what happens.

    They won't actually FIT into the housing, of course, but I could certainly dangle them out the front of the RTi4, make sure it sounds ok, and then ... I guess I'm rebuilding the crossovers. Fun Saturday project, I guess. Found a walkthrough on here, and I'm handy with a soldering iron! (It looks like they run about $25 apiece to replace, may as well order the nicer caps, more fun that way anyhow!)
    Home Theater:
    Yamaha RX-V377 AVR
    Polk Monitor 70 Series II (Front)
    Polk Monitor 15C (Center)
    Polk Monitor 40 (Rear)
    Polk PSW-110 (Sub)
    LG 60" Plasma (6650)
  • mlistens03mlistens03 Posts: 2,332
    Gurm42 wrote: »
    mlistens03 wrote: »
    Gurm42 wrote: »
    Ok. Swapped the tweeters into a pair of RTi4's (they're the same part) and they sound fine. I'm debating how to test the midrange drivers, not sure the RTi4 crossovers will handle them...

    I think your issue is the crossover. You can certainly plug in the drivers to the RTi4 crossover though. I wouldn’t do it for long, but just quickly check it and see what happens.

    They won't actually FIT into the housing, of course, but I could certainly dangle them out the front of the RTi4, make sure it sounds ok, and then ... I guess I'm rebuilding the crossovers. Fun Saturday project, I guess. Found a walkthrough on here, and I'm handy with a soldering iron! (It looks like they run about $25 apiece to replace, may as well order the nicer caps, more fun that way anyhow!)

    Yep, you got it. Just set the woofer outside the cabinet, plug in, test, repeat.
    Good luck! :)
    Micah

    Main system: Technics SL3200, Shure M97xE, Lafayette LR1100 for tuner, Hagerman Audio Labs Bugle 2 phono stage, NAD C352 integrated, Boston Acoustics VR 2, Boston PV500, generic ICs, and BJC Belden speaker cables.

    Desktop: Dell Precision 690 running iTunes, Yamaha RX-v665, Monitor Audio R90s, Velodyne VA-907, generic ICs and speaker cables.
    I've always thought the goal of high-end audio was not to have your neighbors bang on the wall and say, 'Turn that darn music down' but to have your neighbors bang on the wall and say, 'Tell your friends to go home and you can practice later this week'.
  • rooftop59rooftop59 Posts: 4,756
    mlistens03 wrote: »
    Gurm42 wrote: »
    Ok. Swapped the tweeters into a pair of RTi4's (they're the same part) and they sound fine. I'm debating how to test the midrange drivers, not sure the RTi4 crossovers will handle them...

    I think your issue is the crossover. You can certainly plug in the drivers to the RTi4 crossover though. I wouldn’t do it for long, but just quickly check it and see what happens.

    Its not going to damage them at all, it just wouldn't sound great in that enclosure. Perfectly safe for even extended testing...
    HT Rig:
    Denon AVR-X4200w; Peachtree Audio Nova Integrated; Bryson BPD-1; Mains: Dynaudio Emit 10 + MartinLogan Dynamo (original) sub; Center - Polk cs400i; Heights, Center Surround - Klipsch KHC - 6 In-Ceiling; Surrounds - Monoprice in-ceiling; Sub - SVS PB10-ISD; LG UP870 4K BDP

    Master Bedroom
    Marantz SR-5007; Peachtree Audio NovaPre; Audiosource Amp Two, PSB Imagine B, Boston VR-10 center, NHT Super One CI surrounds, ACI Titan subwoofer, Squeezebox Touch
  • mlistens03mlistens03 Posts: 2,332
    rooftop59 wrote: »
    mlistens03 wrote: »
    Gurm42 wrote: »
    Ok. Swapped the tweeters into a pair of RTi4's (they're the same part) and they sound fine. I'm debating how to test the midrange drivers, not sure the RTi4 crossovers will handle them...

    I think your issue is the crossover. You can certainly plug in the drivers to the RTi4 crossover though. I wouldn’t do it for long, but just quickly check it and see what happens.

    Its not going to damage them at all, it just wouldn't sound great in that enclosure. Perfectly safe for even extended testing...

    Thought so, but better safe then sorry... ;)
    Micah

    Main system: Technics SL3200, Shure M97xE, Lafayette LR1100 for tuner, Hagerman Audio Labs Bugle 2 phono stage, NAD C352 integrated, Boston Acoustics VR 2, Boston PV500, generic ICs, and BJC Belden speaker cables.

    Desktop: Dell Precision 690 running iTunes, Yamaha RX-v665, Monitor Audio R90s, Velodyne VA-907, generic ICs and speaker cables.
    I've always thought the goal of high-end audio was not to have your neighbors bang on the wall and say, 'Turn that darn music down' but to have your neighbors bang on the wall and say, 'Tell your friends to go home and you can practice later this week'.
  • Gurm42Gurm42 Posts: 30
    Won't sound great in the enclosure... won't fit either. But thanks for verifying that it won't hurt the crossover or the driver, I'll be sure to try them out tonight and if it's definitely the crossovers, I'll be reporting back here on next steps (rebuild seems more likely than replace).
    Home Theater:
    Yamaha RX-V377 AVR
    Polk Monitor 70 Series II (Front)
    Polk Monitor 15C (Center)
    Polk Monitor 40 (Rear)
    Polk PSW-110 (Sub)
    LG 60" Plasma (6650)
  • mlistens03mlistens03 Posts: 2,332
    Gurm42 wrote: »
    Won't sound great in the enclosure... won't fit either. But thanks for verifying that it won't hurt the crossover or the driver, I'll be sure to try them out tonight and if it's definitely the crossovers, I'll be reporting back here on next steps (rebuild seems more likely than replace).

    good luck! :)
    mlistens03 wrote: »
    rooftop59 wrote: »
    mlistens03 wrote: »
    Gurm42 wrote: »
    Ok. Swapped the tweeters into a pair of RTi4's (they're the same part) and they sound fine. I'm debating how to test the midrange drivers, not sure the RTi4 crossovers will handle them...

    I think your issue is the crossover. You can certainly plug in the drivers to the RTi4 crossover though. I wouldn’t do it for long, but just quickly check it and see what happens.

    Its not going to damage them at all, it just wouldn't sound great in that enclosure. Perfectly safe for even extended testing...

    Thought so, but better safe then sorry... ;)

    What I meant by this was that I told him for a short period of time because I wasn't sure if it was OK. I was being safe so I didn't accidentally tell him to do something that would ruin his speakers.
    You are totally cool to play them like that as long as you like, so don't worry about it. :)
    Micah

    Main system: Technics SL3200, Shure M97xE, Lafayette LR1100 for tuner, Hagerman Audio Labs Bugle 2 phono stage, NAD C352 integrated, Boston Acoustics VR 2, Boston PV500, generic ICs, and BJC Belden speaker cables.

    Desktop: Dell Precision 690 running iTunes, Yamaha RX-v665, Monitor Audio R90s, Velodyne VA-907, generic ICs and speaker cables.
    I've always thought the goal of high-end audio was not to have your neighbors bang on the wall and say, 'Turn that darn music down' but to have your neighbors bang on the wall and say, 'Tell your friends to go home and you can practice later this week'.
  • Gurm42Gurm42 Posts: 30
    Aaaaaaaaaaaand we have a winner. Hanging the RTi6 drivers out the front of the RTi4 resulted in less impressive sound than the RTi4, but the proper mix of sounds. (I assume that the less-than-stellar performance was because the crossover in the RTi4 is intended to drive the 5" driver, not the 6.5" which has 50% more surface area to move).

    So it looks like the crossovers are shot, ostensibly someone wired these incorrectly. What blows out crossovers? Out of phase wiring, or just pushing too much juice?

    Anyway, looks like the next step is pulling them out and rebuilding them one piece at a time. Luckily, someone posted a step-by-step in a different forum here, using better parts... so when I'm done they should sound rather better.
    Home Theater:
    Yamaha RX-V377 AVR
    Polk Monitor 70 Series II (Front)
    Polk Monitor 15C (Center)
    Polk Monitor 40 (Rear)
    Polk PSW-110 (Sub)
    LG 60" Plasma (6650)
  • rooftop59rooftop59 Posts: 4,756
    We’re they plugged in correctly in the 6s? Are the wires in the 6s connected to both the crossover and the speaker?

    Imho the reason they don’t sound as good dangling out of the 4s has little to do with the crossover and more to do with the fact that those drivers were meant to operate in a cabinet with a certain volume and tuning, and now they are in open space with no reinforcement or tuning. More like an infinite baffle configuration but they are not made to be IB speakers...
    HT Rig:
    Denon AVR-X4200w; Peachtree Audio Nova Integrated; Bryson BPD-1; Mains: Dynaudio Emit 10 + MartinLogan Dynamo (original) sub; Center - Polk cs400i; Heights, Center Surround - Klipsch KHC - 6 In-Ceiling; Surrounds - Monoprice in-ceiling; Sub - SVS PB10-ISD; LG UP870 4K BDP

    Master Bedroom
    Marantz SR-5007; Peachtree Audio NovaPre; Audiosource Amp Two, PSB Imagine B, Boston VR-10 center, NHT Super One CI surrounds, ACI Titan subwoofer, Squeezebox Touch
  • Gurm42Gurm42 Posts: 30
    Yeah all the wires are hooked up to both speaker and crossover, so I'm assuming SOMETHING in the crossover is shot. I'm just starting to learn about crossover tech, so no idea which component is blown or how it got that way on both sides...
    Home Theater:
    Yamaha RX-V377 AVR
    Polk Monitor 70 Series II (Front)
    Polk Monitor 15C (Center)
    Polk Monitor 40 (Rear)
    Polk PSW-110 (Sub)
    LG 60" Plasma (6650)
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 11,479
    Look at the XO for hot spots around the resistors. Take a good picture of both XO's and post maybe we'll see something.
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