a 2 part question of i/c and the spool/up down procedure

leftwinger57

Hi dudes, just the other day someone I think Cody came into an Adcom amp and in turn the talk turned to i/c. for various reasons I no longer have matched sets w/ the exception of these very thin i/c gifted to me by P-man years ago. I got on to BJCs site and their standard analog LC-1 were $35.75 per pair (not sure of shipping costs). I then went on to Franks Signal Cable and were a little more but having both sets in the past with an end falling off of one of Frank's cables and he did make good but now I might be gun shy. Audioquest I couldn't understand their web site at all and need a phone call to them.
1. Is pairing w/ like cables very important ?
2. is one bad incident enough to sway away from one maker to another ?
3. I'm looking for just under a hundy for a set so if any other ideas let them fly ?

Now this has come up many times but never really explained as to the exact procedure to start up all devices and then to spool down when done. WHY ?? (and leave your amps on all the time dudes, anyone backing off that statement lately ?
Finally also related almost to a man here ALL have said NEVER use either the switched or un switched outlets freely given by every preamp maker out there. Back in the they were used and no harm was ever noticed to either amps or pres. Hey if there is a set way I'll do it but there gots to be a reason...

Post, I found a set of the LC-1and w/ P-Man's set I have 2 matched sets. CD is being used by Audioquest double headed i/c gifted from Tony but are very short but do the job and all are deeply appreciated if never said so.
Lew....

mlistens03

Never mind, I was wrong.
In my defense though, that is what I thought I was told here. I might have misread what y’all said a while back.

tratliff

Lew -

I have found that like cables work well in my system. All cables are of the same generation, only difference is RCA vs. XLR.

I would not worry about the problem you had with Franks cable. He took care of it. We don't have any information about how the cable was used and if it was put under excessive stress. The point is that he took care of it.

I would contact Doug at www.douglasconnection.com. His cables are a great value and the build quality is comparable to the best in the business. He also gives members of the Polk site discounts.

As far as leaving equipment on, I am of the camp to turn everything off when done. I will turn on the system 1-2 hours before listening if I can. Sometimes I call the wife and have her start everything up while I am still at work.

pitdogg2

mlistens03 wrote: »

I don’t have any idea on your other questions, but I’ll give leaving amps on a go.
I believe the reason for that is that the power capacitors (the big ones) get violently charged or discharged when the amp is turned on or off. That’s not good for the capacitors, and in theory, the build up of heat overtime is the lesser of two evils.
In modern AVR’s, amps, and receivers, the power caps often do not get shut down, although the rest of the caps do, once again, for the reasons listed above.

Oh dear god.....

mlistens03

pitdogg2 wrote: »

mlistens03 wrote: »

I don’t have any idea on your other questions, but I’ll give leaving amps on a go.
I believe the reason for that is that the power capacitors (the big ones) get violently charged or discharged when the amp is turned on or off. That’s not good for the capacitors, and in theory, the build up of heat overtime is the lesser of two evils.
In modern AVR’s, amps, and receivers, the power caps often do not get shut down, although the rest of the caps do, once again, for the reasons listed above.

Oh dear god.....

Am I wrong again? Sorry. I can edit my previous post.

tonyb

leftwinger57 wrote: »

Hi dudes, just the other day someone I think Cody came into an Adcom amp and in turn the talk turned to i/c. for various reasons I no longer have matched sets w/ the exception of these very thin i/c gifted to me by P-man years ago. I got on to BJCs site and their standard analog LC-1 were $35.75 per pair (not sure of shipping costs). I then went on to Franks Signal Cable and were a little more but having both sets in the past with an end falling off of one of Frank's cables and he did make good but now I might be gun shy. Audioquest I couldn't understand their web site at all and need a phone call to them.
1. Is pairing w/ like cables very important ?
2. is one bad incident enough to sway away from one maker to another ?
3. I'm looking for just under a hundy for a set so if any other ideas let them fly ?

Now this has come up many times but never really explained as to the exact procedure to start up all devices and then to spool down when done. WHY ?? (and leave your amps on all the time dudes, anyone backing off that statement lately ?
Finally also related almost to a man here ALL have said NEVER use either the switched or un switched outlets freely given by every preamp maker out there. Back in the they were used and no harm was ever noticed to either amps or pres. Hey if there is a set way I'll do it but there gots to be a reason...

Post, I found a set of the LC-1and w/ P-Man's set I have 2 matched sets. CD is being used by Audioquest double headed i/c gifted from Tony but are very short but do the job and all are deeply appreciated if never said so.
Lew....

Pairing cables ? Some do, some don't. The basic function of cables is to adjust the sound to your liking according to what they are hooked up to. Think of it like baking a cake, no 2 recipes are the same....because peoples' tastes are different. Every cable has a different sound characteristic to them. Some very slight, some more profound.

Leaving amps on all the time, not necessary for more modern SS gear. Vintage amps may have a slight thump when turning off as the caps discharge which can be heard through the speakers. Tubed gear should be left on or in standby mode if it has one. Tubed amps, most turn off simply because of the juice they use, turn on an hour before listening.

Because of that thump in older gear when turning off, some will cycle the way they turn their system on/off. Turn the amp on first at start up, last at shut off.

Those switched/unswitched outlets on the back....those are meant usually for low voltage stuff like small fans for cooling. Not really meant for higher voltage stuff like amps or cdp's. Anything with a decent amount of current draw, should not be used on those.

heiney9

As a rule of thumb, yes you should pair like cables. Unless you want to spend the rest of your life comparing all kinds of various combo's and what they sound like.

Some cables will have more influence than others as well as different kinds of gear having a slightly different sound with said cables.

What I think you'd want to avoid is pairing a higher end (usually higher priced, but not always) cable with a lower end cable. Because your system is only as good as the lower end (worse performing) cable.

Also don't mix styles of cables, if you use MIT with the network boxes, IMO, it's best to stick with that style.

These are rules of thumb and if you want to experiment with a mix of cables, no one can stop you. For me, I use MIT Shotgun series S2's and S3's as well as MIT power cables because I like the way they sound and they compliment each other when run together.

H9

leftwinger57

Very nice, ask a few competent lucid questions and get the long and short of it. No goof zone ...Thanks

Clipdat

mlistens03 wrote: »

I don’t have any idea on your other questions, but I’ll give leaving amps on a go.
I believe the reason for that is that the power capacitors (the big ones) get violently charged or discharged when the amp is turned on or off. That’s not good for the capacitors, and in theory, the build up of heat overtime is the lesser of two evils.
In modern AVR’s, amps, and receivers, the power caps often do not get shut down, although the rest of the caps do, once again, for the reasons listed above.

I believe I read something similar on here, or elsewhere, about how frequent on/off cycles is harder on amplifiers, because of the violent current inrush upon powering up. Hence the reason for the advice of leaving your amps on all the time, to avoid that sudden current inrush and prolong the life of the caps.

Might be worth considering if you live in a temperature controlled environment and don't have something like Pass Labs amps that run in Class A using 200+ watts at idle.

Now, in regards to power caps not being "shut down", upon power off, that I haven't heard of. I've heard of amps/integrates keeping the output transistors in a "ready" state when the unit is in standby as opposed to completely switched off, but I thought caps always discharge whether you are going into a standby or full power off scenario.

mlistens03

I read somewhere that newer receivers, when put to sleep (via the power switch on the front panel, if it isn’t a switch that stays in contact during operation, such as say, the buttons on my Yamaha) don’t shut down the power capacitors, or at least, don’t fully discharge them, so as to avoid a sudden charge on power up. Older receivers, and I believe most amps, have a physical switch, that literally connects or disconnects power from the wall, unlike the switch on my Yamaha, which simply tells the (very basic) computer* inside to turn on.
*I feel like calling it a computer might be a bit of a stretch, although it does allow you, the user, to change settings and such in a menu, and with most AVR’s, it uses a microphone to setup the sound perfectly for HT, which would require a computer of some kind.

Clipdat

Yep, definitely a microprocessor of some sort in there controlling those types of functions. Maybe modern AVRs/integrates do keep some charge in the power caps, hard to say!

I know NAD advertises something like "less than .5w used in standby". So if they are keeping the power caps charged, they've found a way to do it while using an extremely low amount of energy.

tonyb

Lew, the long and short of it is, nothing is written in stone with audio. Experiment as much or as little as your wallet allows.

Vintage gear/amps....first one on, last one off, all ya need to remember.

Clipdat

tonyb wrote: »

Vintage gear/amps....first one on, last one off, all ya need to remember.

Did you reverse it by accident? For amplifiers, I've always done "on last" and then "off first".

tonyb

The idea is to keep any thump at shut down away from the speakers. If it's the first piece shut off, you'll get that thump.

Clipdat

tonyb wrote: »

The idea is to keep any thump at shut down away from the speakers. If it's the first piece shut off, you'll get that thump.

I don't follow you. If the amp thumps upon power down, regardless of if the amplifier is the first turned off, or if you turn off your preamp first, you will still get a thump.

pitdogg2

mlistens03 wrote: »

I read somewhere that newer receivers, when put to sleep (via the power switch on the front panel, if it isn’t a switch that stays in contact during operation, such as say, the buttons on my Yamaha) don’t shut down the power capacitors, or at least, don’t fully discharge them, so as to avoid a sudden charge on power up. Older receivers, and I believe most amps, have a physical switch, that literally connects or disconnects power from the wall, unlike the switch on my Yamaha, which simply tells the (very basic) computer* inside to turn on.
*I feel like calling it a computer might be a bit of a stretch, although it does allow you, the user, to change settings and such in a menu, and with most AVR’s, it uses a microphone to setup the sound perfectly for HT, which would require a computer of some kind.

Yes some do not have a "hard" off which keeps the units ability to turn on by a REMOTE. They do not stay on to keep caps charged. That relay uses very little electricity to allow the remote to turn on the unit. It just keeps the eye for the remote alive.

I turn my stuff off unless it is in use.

There is a relay that was not used on the older Adcoms that allows the large caps to drain. Most modern gear has a relay that will not allow them to drain.

tonyb

Try it, it's been my experience that if the pre was set at a certain volume prior to shut down, that thump is heard at that volume if the amp gets turned off first.

Again, most modern gear doesn't do this so no procedure is needed. Sometimes in vintage gear, you'll still hear a thump no matter what you do. Still, you want to keep the volume of that thump as minimal as possible to avoid any damage to the speakers.

Clipdat

I suppose it varies and is a case by case basis, worthy of experimentation to find out what power on/off sequence works best for you. For example with mine, if I power off the preamp first, it makes a click sound through the speakers.

So I will stick with powering on the amps last and off first.

leftwinger57

Not to muddy the waters even more but there was that thread I believe I started years ago about the speakers themselves making a sound/noise of varying degrees. My Polks sound like a balloon is letting air out another said it was like farting w/o the smell. This we did attribute to power drain and some say like w/ my Adcom that has no DC protection might not be such a good thing but nothing happened to any of my sets in 12 years and how ever long the 1st owner had the thing.