Squeezebox Touch users: digital output?

mdaudioguy

My DAC should be arriving soon. I was planning to use the SBT's digital coax output, but have read about the app that reconfigures the USB port for digital output. Has anyone here tried this? I'm afraid it might be more trouble than it's worth, especially since it doesn't seem like it's been tested with my DAC (Marantz HD-DAC1). In any case, I'm expecting a nice improvement over using the analog output.

https://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?94512-Announce-Enhanced-Digital-Output-app-USB-Dac-and-192k-Digital-Ouput

Clipdat

KISS. Using USB for audio adds a whole lot of different variables to contend with. I don't think USB was ever really designed or intended for audiophile use to be honest.

If I were you I'd just instead focus on finding a nice digital coaxial cable that is at least 1.5m long.

Emlyn

Agreed. Nothing wrong with digital coaxial output from that device in this situation. That's how I have all four of mine connected.

jdjohn

I am running 'Enhanced Digital Output' from the 3rd Party App list, and using the digital coax output.

My understanding is that the app adds support for two things:
- External USB dacs using either USB audio class 1 or 2 protocols [USB 1 dacs normally state they support up to 96k sample rates, USB 2 dacs normally state up to 192k]
- Support of 176 and 192k playback via the standard digital output

My interpretation, perhaps wrong, is that the latter point enhances the digital coax output. But this is probably dependent on the digital music source.

Either way, I think you will hear an improvement over the analog output.

Side note: Is anyone besides me using the Spotty app since native Spotify support was discontinued?

mdaudioguy

jdjohn wrote: »

I am running 'Enhanced Digital Output' from the 3rd Party App list, and using the digital coax output.

Pretty sure the SBT I purchased here is also running this app (says something about enhanced digital output when it boots up). That's what got me thinking about USB.

mdaudioguy

Clipdat wrote: »

KISS. Using USB for audio adds a whole lot of different variables to contend with. I don't think USB was ever really designed or intended for audiophile use to be honest.

If I were you I'd just instead focus on finding a nice digital coaxial cable that is at least 1.5m long.

Why did you mention a minimum length? If I go with digital coax, I was planning to use one of the 2-foot cables I purchased here.

mdaudioguy

Emlyn wrote: »

Agreed. Nothing wrong with digital coaxial output from that device in this situation. That's how I have all four of mine connected.

Yeah, I know. I was just wondering if anyone had a significantly better experience with USB. Sounds like probably not, but this is my personal "best" setup, so I'm going for best I can do with what I have. I'll probably be going for some power cable upgrades next.

Emlyn

If you haven't already tried one you may want to find one of the external power supplies. I bought one of those but it stopped powering up after a while. It did lower the noise floor a bit when I had it. The improvement wasn't enough to make me want to buy another one though, but by then I had moved on to a better source component.

Clipdat

http://www.audiopolitan.com/blog/spdif-does-coaxial-digital-cable-length-matter/

mdaudioguy wrote: »

Why did you mention a minimum length?

mdaudioguy

Emlyn wrote: »

If you haven't already tried one you may want to find one of the external power supplies. I bought one of those but it stopped powering up after a while. It did lower the noise floor a bit when I had it. The improvement wasn't enough to make me want to buy another one though, but by then I had moved on to a better source component.

Got one when I bought the Touch.

https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/172440/sb-touch-w-power-supply

mdaudioguy

Clipdat wrote: »

http://www.audiopolitan.com/blog/spdif-does-coaxial-digital-cable-length-matter/

mdaudioguy wrote: »

Why did you mention a minimum length?

I'll have to consider that as part of the next cable upgrade.

jdjohn

Speaking of cables and the SBT, I will say that using an ethernet cable for the router connection is better than wi-fi. And using a quality ethernet cable can make a difference as well. I tried two different patch cables from Home Depot, but was still having buffering issues. I tried the second one after thinking the first one was bad. Nope. I finally ordered a custom-made CAT5 cable from BJC, and no more buffering problems. They actually send a test report for each cable they sell after terminating the ends which ensures correct pin-out, etc. https://www.bluejeanscable.com/networkcablereports.htm

While I was looking into all this, I found a good article that showed test results of off-the-shelf patch cables available at typical retailers, and wow...quality was pretty bad. The cables were good enough to use for typical networking purposes, but throughput was slow under demanding conditions like streaming. Typical network traffic sends files of a few megabytes back-and-forth, and then the real processing work is done on the computers, so substandard cable might not get noticed. But with streaming, it's a constant flow of data, and bad cable will reveal its flaws.

mdaudioguy

I ran about 40 feet of Cat6 that I terminated myself... Seems ok. No buffering, even with hi-res streams.

msg

jdjohn wrote: »

I am running 'Enhanced Digital Output' from the 3rd Party App list, and using the digital coax output.

My understanding is that the app adds support for two things:
- External USB dacs using either USB audio class 1 or 2 protocols [USB 1 dacs normally state they support up to 96k sample rates, USB 2 dacs normally state up to 192k]
- Support of 176 and 192k playback via the standard digital output

My interpretation, perhaps wrong, is that the latter point enhances the digital coax output. But this is probably dependent on the digital music source.

Either way, I think you will hear an improvement over the analog output.

Side note: Is anyone besides me using the Spotty app since native Spotify support was discontinued?

Interesting on the USB enable, you guys. Pretty cool. I've had nice results with a switch to USB audio from SPDIF variants, so I'm a little interested in this, and whether it can offer a similar improvement.

I'm using the Spotty Plugin, yes. Love it. Better than the original ever worked. Have you noticed that it broadcasts in flac sized bitrates now?

So grateful for the continued community development for the Squeezebox Touch and other Squeeze related players. I love the platform, it works really well for me with all the different services available, as well as local files on my Everything PC, as well as multiple device syncing for multi-room audio.

I've found that evaluating system adjustments is more productive if you know what you're listening for. Sometimes it just jumps out at you, or it's something you know to listen for from other experiences. It's not just sound quality. For example, one type of connectivity may sound similar in general, but may offer an improvement in imaging, which most casual listeners might not pick up on. I think this is one of those things that sets the audio freaks apart from music lovers. (In care you're all the audio freak variety.)

mdaudioguy

I'm very happy with the SB platform and don't really have a desire to move off of it. Two Touchs, a Classic, and four Duet Receivers. I just like the way it works. My FLAC library is on a NAS. For streaming, my service of choice is Slacker. Yeah, 320 max, but I only use it for casual listening around the house (as well as for running and in the car). Should I ever need additional SB hardware, and decent used gear isn't readily available, I'd probably consider a DIY solution, like this: https://www.hifiberry.com/blog/a-high-end-squeezebox-replacement/

msg

That's a cool diy variant!
I built a couple of headless ones using the HiFiBerry DAC+, their case, and run piCorePlayer on them. I control everything with Orange Squeeze for Android, or through the web browser hitting the local LMS. Would be nice to have a touch screen to see and control locally, though.

I think they ended up costing around $135 - $150, maybe? You can even just get Digi+ Pi hats to output digital to your own DAC if you prefer.

mdaudioguy

Yeah, I might even build one just for fun some time!

FYI, I had been using Squeeze Commander for Android up until recently, when I noticed it was no longer in the Play store. I had also discovered a glitch in that it failed to recognize album artists vs individual track artists. I switched to Squeeze Ctrl and love it.

jdjohn

msg wrote: »

That's a cool diy variant!
I built a couple of headless ones using the HiFiBerry DAC+, their case, and run piCorePlayer on them. I control everything with Orange Squeeze for Android, or through the web browser hitting the local LMS. Would be nice to have a touch screen to see and control locally, though.

I think they ended up costing around $135 - $150, maybe? You can even just get Digi+ Pi hats to output digital to your own DAC if you prefer.

So Orange Squeeze works with the Spotty app? I had wondered about this...

Really a shame that Logitech abandoned SB. It was way ahead of its time.

steveinaz

I loved the SB interface. Intuitive, easy, powerful. Used to love to do "play music by year."

SCompRacer

When I had the SqueezeBox, I modded it for I2S out using a Twisted Pear Teleporter. With I2S, clock is separate of data stream where SPFDIF has clock embedded and DAC must sort it out. Some DAC chips do a better job with SPDIF than others. I2S input can be a significant improvement with some DAC chips.

The Teleporter required two, could be set for transmit or receive. One in the DAC received the I2S signal from the SB. I2S over a couple feet run is too long and can cause clock errors. In CD players I2S is usually a few inches at most. The Teleporter was good for over a 100 foot run, if you needed it that long.

Speaking of data cables, I use Blue Jeans data cables for my audio. Quality of termination and cable can be tested. I had issues with a store bought data cable that his cable solved. I started a thread here about it. And you are not talking a large cash outlay for the tested cables.

https://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/data-cables/index.htm

".....every Ethernet patch cable we sell comes with its own individual test report, run on a Fluke DTX-1800 certification tester, showing that it meets or exceeds the applicable spec. If it doesn't, we won't sell it."

mdaudioguy

SCompRacer wrote: »

When I had the SqueezeBox, I modded it for I2S out using a Twisted Pear Teleporter. With I2S, clock is separate of data stream where SPFDIF has clock embedded and DAC must sort it out. Some DAC chips do a better job with SPDIF than others. I2S input can be a significant improvement with some DAC chips.

Dang it! Isn't anything in this hobby simple?!? Never heard of I2S before (or I²S, evidently)...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/I²S
I may have to pretend I never read anything about this, at least for now.

msg

jdjohn wrote: »

So Orange Squeeze works with the Spotty app? I had wondered about this...
Really a shame that Logitech abandoned SB. It was way ahead of its time.

I agree, way ahead, though I have to wonder whether it would have a place today. I figure most people are probably just using smartphones and Bluetooth or aux cables, not that the SB was ever aimed at that market segment.

Indeed - Orange Squeeze works with everything you can setup and access in LMS. Updates are very infrequent, but you can write to the app developer and he actually writes back. Cool dude. Into bikes and orange stuff.

It's got some neat shortcuts, like swiping in from each of the left or right sides of the screen to access your Browse list or your different players, respectively. The Browse list is neat. You can customize the menu to show any app, or a select from a set of preset shortcuts. Well worth the five bucks, I think it costs.

jdjohn

msg wrote: »

I agree, way ahead, though I have to wonder whether it would have a place today. I figure most people are probably just using smartphones and Bluetooth or aux cables, not that the SB was ever aimed at that market segment.

If they had stayed in front of smart device apps, yes...no doubt. I remember earlier apps that linked to Logitech Media Server, and could control several devices. I think they abandoned smart device apps too soon, and missed the boat.