So my friend with the Jeep I was talking about last year, he got a new...

Jstas

...Jeep.

How original.

Anyway, he's talking stereo again.

This one might be easier because it's an '04 but doesn't have teh premium sound system. Only problem is the rear seat now folds up all stupid because some sissy complained about having to pull the whole seat out to get a flat floor surface probably.

Anyway, it cuts down space to mount an amplifier. The overhead lights are als on the speaker bar attached to the rollbar. That sucks too because now they are 5.25 inch speakers and not 6.5 inch speakers. There is no sunwoofer in the center either. I think this is because he got himself a hardtop.

So anyway, I was thinking of what would be needed to do a stereo for him. I think he really wants a sub but the stock sub was 7 inches in his old Jeep. The new sub would have to be 8 inches unless I could find a Focal 5 inch sub for cheap or maybe a 6 inch sub.

The other option I was considering was getting a pair of speaker boxes for a Jeep that get mounted between the rollbar upright and the rear fenderwell. Then making an MDF mounting plate and putting 6.5 inch woofers in there.

He won't be doing this for a while so I am thinking that the new MOMO components that are coming out would be absolutly perfect for this. The 5.25 inch speakers could go in overhead "soundbar", the 4x6 inch plates could go up front and I could put 6.5 inch woofers in the enclosures and rig a Focal sub or even a Kicker S8L7-2 square Solo-baric.

Yeah, yeah, I know, square sub, yada yada yada. But that would be the purpose of having the 6.5 inch mid-bass in enclosures. It would clean up the muddy sound of teh square sub but a DVC Solobaric wouls still kick like a mule. Since it's right between teh seats, you'd feel it good too. Since it's 8 inches, it's fit pretty well in the very limited space too.

For amplification, I'd go with the Hifonics Warrior amps. The D-class Warrior Merlin amp will do 450 watts at 1 ohm which would be perfect for the 8 inch Solobaric and the Warrior Eagle will do 50W x 4 which would be perfect for the 4x6's and the 5.25 inch speakers and a Warrior Falcon would be about 100 watts per channel for the 6.5 inch mid-basses.

Total wattage would be about 830 watts and the amps would be less than 400 dollars for 3 amps of pretty good quality and reliability. Not to mention, they are small enough to hide in a Jeep easily and nothing would be readily out in the open. My friend would get an ****-kickin stereo in his Jeep and it could all be easily removed if he gives it back at the end of his lease.

The nice thing is, those 4x6 inch plates give him component quality sound in a single speaker so he'd have components all around and it's probably be less than 1500 bucks total.

So what do ya think? Is it worth it?

exalted512

they have subs now that are about as deep as a triple A battery and they sound pretty damn good
much better the a square 8" kicker, i heard one again when i was going around town to the local speaker shops
wasnt pleased at all
-Cody

Jstas

Didja happen to read my post? The sub's only purpose would be to offer that extra kick. He doesn't want a sub that will take up alot of space so I'm limited in what I can do. the square sub would work out better for mounting purposes and teh Kicker is small but can take a butt-load of power as opposed to the "slim-line" subs which can't handle any kinda power that would be needed to be at least HEARD in a Jeep with humming tires and no roof (when the top comes off). On top of that, the Kicker requires a very small enclosure size so that is a bonus plus it can reach into the 20's for a frequency range. Below 40 Hz, sound quality is a moot point because you feel it more than hear it and that is what I need for this install.

I realize there are other choices out there and I have looked at a few of them. However, none of them fits teh application quite as well as the Kicker.

exalted512

well if sound quality isnt much of an issue, then go for it
thought about the kenwood eXcelon 4x6s?
i have em in my truck and i couldnt be more pleased with them...they are REALLY awesome
-Cody

MacLeod

I have severe space limitations in my Ram and feel your pain on finding a suitable sub and have looked at virtually every sub made to fit the bill.

I think the Kicker is a fine choice and one I am seriously considering for the same reasons as you; handles **** loads of power and fits in a .33 ft3 box.

However you should give the Diamond Audio CM3 8" a look-see. It can handle 400 RMS and will fit in a sealed enclosure of .27 Ft3 (minimum recommended; .5 is the max) and thats pretty damned small!!! All that and with a retail price of about $100!!!! This is a much better SQ sub than the Kicker and I doubt youd need a 6" sub to make up the difference. However if you do want a smaller sub Morel also makes a 5" sub but Im not sure how much it costs.

As far as placement, how 'bout sticking the tiny little box in the rear most corner of the back? Im not real familiar with the layout of Jeeps but this would be my choice. With the Diamond, a .27 box would be pretty small and you could build it to wedge into the corner pretty good.

Hifonics amps? Well you cant go wrong there. The only thing Id throw up is have you looked into a 5 channel? Orion makes one that puts out 50x4 and 150x1 (300x1 at 2 ohms) for $600. However Kicker makes my favorite. The KX700.5 makes 70x4 and 420x1 (2 ohms) at 14.4 volts which is the biggest I know of and retails for $580. Now I know this is more than the Hifonics amps will cost but this will be a little more compact and installer friendly. Just a thought.

Other than that it sounds like youve got it nailed.

Jstas

Well, the square flange of the Kicker sub is what is selling me on it. I can make a stronger mounting face with the square flange than with a round one because of how the sub would be situated. It would fit the available space much better. It can handle a small box too and they are typically forgiving if you build a box a tad too small and then stuff it full of polyfil to compensate. As far as sub box placement goes, between the seats is where it is at. With the way the new rear seat setup is compared to the old way, there is considerably less room. He wants to retain the space so it kinda ties my hands, know what I mean?

I was thinking about a 5 channel amp too but they get large and can generate alot of heat. I have a 5 channel Kenwood in my truck now and a 5 channel Hifonics in my girl's Taurus and they can both kick off some heat. Since space is at a premium and stealth is the name of the game in a Jeep, hiding 3 or 4 smaller amps is much easier. Besides that, I can put the extra 6.5 inch woofers in and that would fill in the gap left by the, IMO, inadequate 5.25 inch woofers and 4x6 inch speakers. So that is the reason behind 6 full range channels and one sub channel. I can crossover the 6.5 inchers to give the bottom end some gusto and the mid-range some fill where it counts. Wind/road noise in a Jeep is atrocious so the more volume, the better.

As far as the amps go, I don't like the Kicker amps. When they first came out, they were slick little power houses that kicked the crap outta the MTX stuff that they were clearly aimed at. Since then, they have become weak-kneed so to speak. I'm not pleased with the current offerings. If they work for you then great but they aren't what I'm looking for. Also, they tend to run hot and heat in tight spaces is bad. The Hifonics won't get quite as hot but they are very compact so there will be more airflow around them. The Orion amp is nice but for the amount of money they want, the Hifonics Zeus Z800 with an under-rated 50W x 4 plus an even more under-rated 200W x 1 for about 300 dollars from the discounters just flat-out out performs it.

As far as the Kenwood eXcelon 4x6's go, yes, they are nice. But, a problem exist. The tweeters would protrude into the plastic dash parts and since the vehicle is leased, that could be an issue I don't want to deal with. The MOMO 4x6's have pretty much no clearance issues because they can be mounted in a way that prevents any clearance issues. On top of that, the MOMOs have a 4 inch woofer and a dome tweeter that would not be as piercing as the Kenwood's is. It would also fit the component layout well. It can take more power, has a 3 year warranty and matches the sensitivity of the other speakers. It would also be pretty well voice matched and when installing in an environment such as a Jeep, you want the speakers and such to compliment each other because, as the volume goes up, the discrepancies between the speakers show up more prominently. When the top on a Jeep goes down and the travelling speed goes up, so does the radio volume so you get to see how important it is to pay attention to the sensitivity levels of your components. The discrepancies can sound harsh and be fatiguing to listen to in addition to skewing your sound stage. That's not so good IMO and makes the sound pretty crappy.

So given all of that, my goals for the system are stealth, compactness and ease of installation/removal. He thinks he will keep this Jeep at the end of the lease but I have to plan for that so if he doesn't keep it, we can tear it out.

exalted512

yeah, in that case the plate speakers would be a better idea
sound great to me
the warrior series are really awesome
-Cody

MacLeod

Yeah, youre right about the heat. Thats something Im going to need to take into account. Thats the only thing I dont like about trucks, no room to put a system in without hacking **** up or spending a ton on fiberglass work!

I guess I could always stick with my little Alpine amps, they dont take up much room and dont generate any heat....but that probably because they dont make any power either!!

PoweredByDodge

john, rockford makes 6.5" subs that are like 150-ish rms... they mount in a normal 6.5" hole --- two of those would give you quite good misbass response, they drop down to about 40 hertz on the low end, and can run up to as high as 500 hz... not too shabby for a "i'm a midbass but think i'm a subwoofer" speaker. crackfield has them for about 70 each -- you can dig em up online cheaper obviously.

i dont know if this is possible, but a 4" component system (4" middy and a 1" silk dome tweet" would be ideal up front with just 5.25 coax's in back... RF's fanatic Q component sets of 2 yrs ago came in as small as a 4" as well as some mb quart and phoenix gold ones... hell.... if he's got lots of loot, what about the focal 3 ways that have the 5.25" woofer, 4" middy and 1" dome tweet... put the woof in back, middy and tweet up front (although tha'ts probably not as good as doing the separate front and rear stages...

hope it helps a little on the idea front.

Jstas

See, I was thinking about all of that. The big problem with most of it is the Jeep is leased and he is not sure if he will buy it out or give it back at the end of the lease.

That was the reason behind the Polk MMC 4x6" plates. They are basically components up front like you already mentioned and they won't break his bank. He has the cash to go whole hog but he really isn't all that interested, he just wants good tunes. Also, he is going back to school for a nursing degree so he doesn't want to drop a whole pile of cash on it either.

The dual 6.5 inch subs from Rockford would work in the rear boxes, if he went that route, it's still up in the air. But the only real place for a sub is in teh center console. The sub has to be 8 inches or smaller and it has to use a small box. The Kicker does that and the square flange would be easy to fit there. Although MacLeod's Diamond sub idea keeps swimming around in my head.

I was talking to him about it all last night and he kinda balked at the idea of 3 amps. He was asking about 1 big amp to cover all of it. Problem is, most of the 5 channel amps out there are quite large and that still leaves the 6.5 inc mid-bass unpowered without a 2nd amp.

What I really gotta do is get dimensions and build some cardboard boxes and show him what fit will be like. He's not seeing the bonuses of multiple small amps for not only flexibilty but stealth/security. In a Jeep, that's important.

MacLeod

How about 2 4-channels. Run the plates and the 5.25's off the front 2 channels and the mid-bass of the bridged rear channels. This Phoenix Gold would fit the bill. These things are stable down to 2 ohms stereo which is pretty stabel. This would put out an underrated 50 to each plate and each 5.25 and then 200 to the mid. Then for continuities sake, you buy a 2nd one and bridge both front and rear to each voice coil of the sub (assuming its dual 4 ohm coils) and youve got 400 rms! The only downside is that you would lose your fader and the ability to independantly adjust the plate and 5.25 output.

The main thing about the Diamond I like so much is the super small box. .27 is unheard of as a minimum and still be able to handle 400 rms!!! Hell the box Im using now is .30 and I thought Id never find one that would work in that. Now I dont have to build another monstrosity, er, I mean enclosure! (I aint much of a carpenter)

Jstas

I would like to stay away from bridging channels or running teh front and rears in series or parallel. The 5.25 inch speakers are mounted off the rollbar. I don't want to mess around with weird wiring schemes.

Also, running full-range speakers at a 2 ohm draw is not teh best idea in the world. Not only does it drop in sound quality but it creates a higher draw on the vehicle's electrical system. Since the vehicle is leased, any modifications in the way of a new alternator/battery would be in voilation of the leasing agreement. The simpler the setup is the better. If I did get two four channel amplifiers, one woulf power the front and rear full range components and the other would be set up with one pair of stereo channels powering the mid-bass and the other pair bridged to power the sub. But that would not give me the power levels I am looking for in the set up.

exalted512

a friend told me about
these
theyre adapter brackets for 4x6 to 5.25"
im not sure if theres any cutting involved, but all it would take is a call to find out
he also mentioned this
theyre soundbars
im not sure how that affects the light bar or if you have to drill any holes though
-Cody

Jstas

They won't work. His Jeep is an 04. I was told by a Jeep guys on a forum that those adapter plates will not work on the 03-04 Jeep Wranglers. I'm not sure why but one guys said that the passenger side would work but the driver's side mounting point is different and the plate won't work on the driver's side.

As far as the sound bar goes, those are quite intrusive and not very stealthy at all. He routinely carries people in the backseat and those soundbars would defintly be in the way. That was something he was very clear about, he didn't want it in the way. Also, judging by the photos, it does not look like those soundbars would play nice with the stock hardtop that he has.

exalted512

alrighty...sorry i cant be of more help...
good luck anyway
-Cody

Jstas

I'm not trying to shoot you down. I actually showed him some pictures of similar soundbars from Steel Horse and Stylin' Concepts and he didn't like them either. I didn't know about the conversion plates so I asked around. I won't really know for sure about the plates until I get a chance to take his dash apart and look for myself. I just don't like telling people no without giving them a reason why.

exalted512

i didnt take it like that
my friend has a jeep, he found a site where he can get a nice size sub in, but it requires taking out some of the padding in the back seat...i dont think the lease company would be too happy with half the padding missing out of the back seat though...lol
-Cody

Jstas

I saw that too but the sub would interfere with the mechanism on his rear seat that lets it fold forward, out of the way.

MacLeod

You sure this guys not really a woman? He sure is hard to please! "Hey build me an awesome stereo, but I dont want to run any amps and you cant mount speakers anywhere!" LOL

I know how it is though. I used to own a Suzuki Samurai and couldnt mount speakers ANYWHERE! I finally decided on a set of 6x9s in pre-made 6x9 enclosures running off a 100x2 amp and I wedged the boxes behind the front seats firing up and away from the front. Imaging? Yeah, right, but it was loud and it was music!

Some rigs aint meant to have audio it seems!

Jstas

No, he wants amps. I told him that there was no way deck power would be able to overcome the open air driving environment of a Jeep and he agreed. It's just that he drives this every day. He needs it to be functional so I have to come up with a way to provide him with good clean volume and not take up alot of space.

I approach this stuff like I do with users at work who call for help. I have a problem that needs to be solved and the user/owner has some specific requirments that really aren't unreasonable at all. So it's my job, being the knowledgable one, to find him some components that I think would work best for him, fit his needs and meet or exceed his requirements. It's a challenge and I like challenges like this because it means I get to go listen to gear, scour magazines, catalogs and websites and spend someone else's money! But the install can be the most whiz-bang deal I've ever installed but if it doesn't meet the user's requirments and misses the mark on the total goal of the system then in reality, it totally sucks.

The ultimate sound is one thing. In a car, you will never achieve such a thing unless you only listen in a car, parked in a climate controlled garage. There is no way to combat all of the lousy environmental variables in a car and still be able to live with it on a daily basis. So you find the best compromise you can and go from there.