Interesting little toob amp
Comments
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Cool. I must admit your pics of the audiophile emporium, listening room, is like eye candy! Always a little tidbit makes it's way to the light of day in this forum!
Basement: Polk SDA SRS 1.2tl's, Cary SLP-05 Pre with ultimate upgrade,McIntosh MCD301 CD/SACD player, Northstar Designs Excelsio DAC, Cambridge 851N streamer, McIntosh MC300 Amp, Silnote Morpheus Ref2, Series2 Digital Cables, Silnote Morpheus Ref2 Series2 XLR's, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Pangea Power Cables, MIT Shotgun S3 IC's, MIT Shotgun S1 Bi-Wire speaker cables
Office: PC, EAR Acute CD Player, EAR 834L Pre, Northstar Designs Intenso DAC, Antique Sound Labs AV8 Monoblocks, Denon UDR-F10 Cassette, Acoustic Technologies Classic FR Speakers, SVS SB12 Plus sub, MIT AVt2 speaker cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable, Groneberg Quatro Reference IC's
Spare Room: Dayens Ampino Integrated Amp, Tjoeb 99 tube CD player (modified Marantz CD-38), Analysis Plus Oval 9's, Zu Jumpers, AudioEngine B1 Streamer, Klipsch RB-61 v2, SVS PB1000 sub, Blue Jeans RCA IC's, Shunyata Hydra 8 Power Conditioner
Living Room: Peachtree Nova Integrated, Cambridge CXN v2 Streamer, Rotel RCD-1072 CD player, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi sub
Garage #1: Cambridge Audio 640A Integrated Amp, Project Box-E BT Streamer, Polk Tsi200 Bookies, Douglas Speaker Cables, Shunyata Power Conditioner
Garage #2: Cambridge Audio EVO150 Integrated Amplifier, Polk L200's, Analysis Plus Silver Oval 2 Speaker Cables, IC's TBD. -
There are a few pieces that don't really live here -- they're just kinda visiting.
I feel a bit like Blanch Dubois sometimes -- depending on the kindness of strangers, you know?
PS I did post a photo of the Paramours a few posts earlier in this thread.
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Ah yes, I remember those! Very nice! BTW my Bottlehead saga continues! In for repairs. Basement: Polk SDA SRS 1.2tl's, Cary SLP-05 Pre with ultimate upgrade,McIntosh MCD301 CD/SACD player, Northstar Designs Excelsio DAC, Cambridge 851N streamer, McIntosh MC300 Amp, Silnote Morpheus Ref2, Series2 Digital Cables, Silnote Morpheus Ref2 Series2 XLR's, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Pangea Power Cables, MIT Shotgun S3 IC's, MIT Shotgun S1 Bi-Wire speaker cables
Office: PC, EAR Acute CD Player, EAR 834L Pre, Northstar Designs Intenso DAC, Antique Sound Labs AV8 Monoblocks, Denon UDR-F10 Cassette, Acoustic Technologies Classic FR Speakers, SVS SB12 Plus sub, MIT AVt2 speaker cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable, Groneberg Quatro Reference IC's
Spare Room: Dayens Ampino Integrated Amp, Tjoeb 99 tube CD player (modified Marantz CD-38), Analysis Plus Oval 9's, Zu Jumpers, AudioEngine B1 Streamer, Klipsch RB-61 v2, SVS PB1000 sub, Blue Jeans RCA IC's, Shunyata Hydra 8 Power Conditioner
Living Room: Peachtree Nova Integrated, Cambridge CXN v2 Streamer, Rotel RCD-1072 CD player, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi sub
Garage #1: Cambridge Audio 640A Integrated Amp, Project Box-E BT Streamer, Polk Tsi200 Bookies, Douglas Speaker Cables, Shunyata Power Conditioner
Garage #2: Cambridge Audio EVO150 Integrated Amplifier, Polk L200's, Analysis Plus Silver Oval 2 Speaker Cables, IC's TBD. -
good
We're a tad offtopic for this thread -- but only a tad. -
Massdrop has the APPJ mini2013 amp available again. It's a fairly non-crufty little chi-fi tube amp with a whopping 3W per channel. Don't have a schematic for it, so I can't tell for sure if it's running in triode mode.
I got one on a whim a while ago & I'm running it in my office with a pair of full range Fostex kanspeas in near field. It's not too shabby. Does best on jazz & classical chamber music.
Most definitely a conversation starter when people see it for the first time.
The only change I made was to roll in a pair of nos GE Jan5654s.
Worth the little bit of coin IMO/IME*
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/appj-mini2013-6j1-6p1
* with apologies to @mhardy6647
That's a neat little tube amp, Tony. Glad it's working out for you. Fostex love tubes. Thanks for sharing.
Interesting discussion. I enjoyed reading the posts and seeing some nice pics.
I thought I'd chime in on the pentode/triode tubes.
I've had EL34 amps wired in pseudo triode with excellent results. They really do take on the character of a DHT SET.
A lot of people talk about the SET magic with DHT tubes. I was lucky to have experienced this in my system, but it only worked for my ears with 300B and EL34 output tubes. The EL34 is not DHT but it did have that magic. The 2A3 I tried were very nice, but the 300B is more rich and colorful sounding (IMO). Loved the spooky feeling I used to get when voices sound like they're right there just floating freely in the room.motorstereo wrote: »Someday I'm in hopes of bringing home a decent yet inexpensive very low wpc set amp to try out on my khorns. Apparently this isn't what I'm looking for.
Hi Motorstereo,
I don't know what you consider "inexpensive", but you need to keep one important factor in mind. Your Khorns are 104db sensitive. You're going to need a good quality tube amp. Lower end tube amps tend to have too much noise which you'll clearly hear when there is no music playing. With a good amp, you'll only hear it with your ears very close to the horns.
I used to own a pair of La Scalas which are similar to your Khorns. Best speakers I ever owned. I've never heard the Khorns, but I bet your system must sound incredible.
The best amp I heard on the LS were small SS amps rated at 50w that used op amps for the output. There is a name for these amps, I think they're called gain clones. You might want to look into those as well. The amp beat all my tube amps on the horns lol. I was using a passive transformer based pre amp at the time.
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Thanks Moss Man; I'll keep that in mind. Presently all I have for tubes is a Yaqin MC100B kt88 powered pushpull integrated 60 wpc UL or 30 wpc TR. It sits on the sidelines most of the time as I just don't care for it on the k's. So far the best I've heard them sound is with some 80's Mcintosh ss separates.
I want to go inexpensive on the set amp as I'm not expecting synergy but I am hoping to be pleasantly surprised and upgrade if the set sound is something I like. -
motorstereo wrote: »Thanks Moss Man; I'll keep that in mind. Presently all I have for tubes is a Yaqin MC100B kt88 powered pushpull integrated 60 wpc UL or 30 wpc TR. It sits on the sidelines most of the time as I just don't care for it on the k's. So far the best I've heard them sound is with some 80's Mcintosh ss separates.
I want to go inexpensive on the set amp as I'm not expecting synergy but I am hoping to be pleasantly surprised and upgrade if the set sound is something I like.
Are you also a member on the Klipsch forum? They have a lot of Khorn owners who can give you advice on what type of amps to look for.
You're idea of going inexpensive first just to see how you like the SET sound is very good because it's not for everybody.
You're going to be in for a ride with a SET amp (whether good or bad) because they sound quite different. -
No I'm not a member but I've poked around a bit. The 2125 amp I use seems to be well thought of on the k's as does the pair of Monarchy monoblock class a's that I use during the colder months.
I was thinking this unit might be a great way to get my feet wet with some set sound but apparently it's not so I'll keep looking. -
Professor @mhardy6647 are there any new high sensitivity speakers (non-kit form) out there that you recommend for flea power? Please advise. Thanks.Basement: Polk SDA SRS 1.2tl's, Cary SLP-05 Pre with ultimate upgrade,McIntosh MCD301 CD/SACD player, Northstar Designs Excelsio DAC, Cambridge 851N streamer, McIntosh MC300 Amp, Silnote Morpheus Ref2, Series2 Digital Cables, Silnote Morpheus Ref2 Series2 XLR's, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Pangea Power Cables, MIT Shotgun S3 IC's, MIT Shotgun S1 Bi-Wire speaker cables
Office: PC, EAR Acute CD Player, EAR 834L Pre, Northstar Designs Intenso DAC, Antique Sound Labs AV8 Monoblocks, Denon UDR-F10 Cassette, Acoustic Technologies Classic FR Speakers, SVS SB12 Plus sub, MIT AVt2 speaker cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable, Groneberg Quatro Reference IC's
Spare Room: Dayens Ampino Integrated Amp, Tjoeb 99 tube CD player (modified Marantz CD-38), Analysis Plus Oval 9's, Zu Jumpers, AudioEngine B1 Streamer, Klipsch RB-61 v2, SVS PB1000 sub, Blue Jeans RCA IC's, Shunyata Hydra 8 Power Conditioner
Living Room: Peachtree Nova Integrated, Cambridge CXN v2 Streamer, Rotel RCD-1072 CD player, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi sub
Garage #1: Cambridge Audio 640A Integrated Amp, Project Box-E BT Streamer, Polk Tsi200 Bookies, Douglas Speaker Cables, Shunyata Power Conditioner
Garage #2: Cambridge Audio EVO150 Integrated Amplifier, Polk L200's, Analysis Plus Silver Oval 2 Speaker Cables, IC's TBD. -
I think options include, but aren't limited to, Tekton and Devore. Sounds like a law firm.
Is The Hornshoppe still around? Looks like maybe? www.hornshoppe.com
There's always -- Klipsch, too.
I mean, a pair of Cornwalls ain't bad. They ain't perfect -- but they ain't bad.
Not 100% sure I'd recommend any of them, but any of them can let one get one's foot in the door
Don't get one of those Tektons with, like, 326 drivers on each baffle, though, OK?
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mhardy6647 wrote: »
My ears hurt just thinking about that! Lemme guess... 110 dB at 1 watt with all those tweeters? -
Zu Omens?
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Zu! That's the one I forgot! Sorry
Yes, some of the Zus are definitely candidates in terms of modern production.
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Looking good!
Basement: Polk SDA SRS 1.2tl's, Cary SLP-05 Pre with ultimate upgrade,McIntosh MCD301 CD/SACD player, Northstar Designs Excelsio DAC, Cambridge 851N streamer, McIntosh MC300 Amp, Silnote Morpheus Ref2, Series2 Digital Cables, Silnote Morpheus Ref2 Series2 XLR's, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Pangea Power Cables, MIT Shotgun S3 IC's, MIT Shotgun S1 Bi-Wire speaker cables
Office: PC, EAR Acute CD Player, EAR 834L Pre, Northstar Designs Intenso DAC, Antique Sound Labs AV8 Monoblocks, Denon UDR-F10 Cassette, Acoustic Technologies Classic FR Speakers, SVS SB12 Plus sub, MIT AVt2 speaker cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable, Groneberg Quatro Reference IC's
Spare Room: Dayens Ampino Integrated Amp, Tjoeb 99 tube CD player (modified Marantz CD-38), Analysis Plus Oval 9's, Zu Jumpers, AudioEngine B1 Streamer, Klipsch RB-61 v2, SVS PB1000 sub, Blue Jeans RCA IC's, Shunyata Hydra 8 Power Conditioner
Living Room: Peachtree Nova Integrated, Cambridge CXN v2 Streamer, Rotel RCD-1072 CD player, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi sub
Garage #1: Cambridge Audio 640A Integrated Amp, Project Box-E BT Streamer, Polk Tsi200 Bookies, Douglas Speaker Cables, Shunyata Power Conditioner
Garage #2: Cambridge Audio EVO150 Integrated Amplifier, Polk L200's, Analysis Plus Silver Oval 2 Speaker Cables, IC's TBD. -
mlistens03 wrote: »mhardy6647 wrote: »
My ears hurt just thinking about that! Lemme guess... 110 dB at 1 watt with all those tweeters?
25K/pair my wallet would hurt too!Basement: Polk SDA SRS 1.2tl's, Cary SLP-05 Pre with ultimate upgrade,McIntosh MCD301 CD/SACD player, Northstar Designs Excelsio DAC, Cambridge 851N streamer, McIntosh MC300 Amp, Silnote Morpheus Ref2, Series2 Digital Cables, Silnote Morpheus Ref2 Series2 XLR's, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Pangea Power Cables, MIT Shotgun S3 IC's, MIT Shotgun S1 Bi-Wire speaker cables
Office: PC, EAR Acute CD Player, EAR 834L Pre, Northstar Designs Intenso DAC, Antique Sound Labs AV8 Monoblocks, Denon UDR-F10 Cassette, Acoustic Technologies Classic FR Speakers, SVS SB12 Plus sub, MIT AVt2 speaker cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable, Groneberg Quatro Reference IC's
Spare Room: Dayens Ampino Integrated Amp, Tjoeb 99 tube CD player (modified Marantz CD-38), Analysis Plus Oval 9's, Zu Jumpers, AudioEngine B1 Streamer, Klipsch RB-61 v2, SVS PB1000 sub, Blue Jeans RCA IC's, Shunyata Hydra 8 Power Conditioner
Living Room: Peachtree Nova Integrated, Cambridge CXN v2 Streamer, Rotel RCD-1072 CD player, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi sub
Garage #1: Cambridge Audio 640A Integrated Amp, Project Box-E BT Streamer, Polk Tsi200 Bookies, Douglas Speaker Cables, Shunyata Power Conditioner
Garage #2: Cambridge Audio EVO150 Integrated Amplifier, Polk L200's, Analysis Plus Silver Oval 2 Speaker Cables, IC's TBD. -
yeah but on a per driver basis, they're, like, cheaper than them little bluetooth speaker thingies at Best Buy.
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Looking at an Ebay listing for a nice looking pair of these. Would the sensitivity of 91db's with these little bookshelf speakers make them a contender for a flea powered tube amp??
Polk Audio Monitor 4A
Type
2 way, 2 driver loudspeaker system
Frequency Response
35Hz to 25kHz
Sensitivity
91dB
Impedance
6Ω
Recommended Amplifier
20 to 100W
Drive Units
1 x 6.5" cone bass, 1 x 1" dome tweeter
Dimensions
14.24 x 8.5 x 7.5"
Weight
32 lb
Carver M4.0t, M1.0t, M200t, TX2, C1, C2, Marantz 2230, 2010, 4070, 1030, APPJ 2013, Rega Brio, Marantz Imperial 7's, Klipsch Heresy III, Quartets, KG4's, KG1's, 'The Sixes', R-12SW, Polk SDA 2a's, Monitor 7cTL's, SDA CRS's, 4a's, Zu Audio Dirty Weekends, Pro-ject Acryl TT, Cambridge 851N, 351C, Panamax 5300PM -
Is it really 91 dB sensitive? What is the nominal impedance?
I wouldn't think they'd be a great match, but maybe worth trying if the price is right, I'd opine.
That said, the original morph of the Monitor 4, with the Peerless silk dome tweeter, was a much better sounding loudspeaker (again, just my opinion).
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And while on the subject, what dictates the sensitivity/efficiency of a speaker? The driver design or crossover or both??Carver M4.0t, M1.0t, M200t, TX2, C1, C2, Marantz 2230, 2010, 4070, 1030, APPJ 2013, Rega Brio, Marantz Imperial 7's, Klipsch Heresy III, Quartets, KG4's, KG1's, 'The Sixes', R-12SW, Polk SDA 2a's, Monitor 7cTL's, SDA CRS's, 4a's, Zu Audio Dirty Weekends, Pro-ject Acryl TT, Cambridge 851N, 351C, Panamax 5300PM
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mhardy6647 wrote: »Is it really 91 dB sensitive? What is the nominal impedance?
I wouldn't think they'd be a great match, but maybe worth trying if the price is right, I'd opine.
That said, the original morph of the Monitor 4, with the Peerless silk dome tweeter, was a much better sounding loudspeaker (again, just my opinion).
Not able to find very much specification information on the M4's, 4A's. Not even sure how to tell them apart visually. Just looking for a small affordable speak for my silly little APPJ mini2013 I've got coming.Carver M4.0t, M1.0t, M200t, TX2, C1, C2, Marantz 2230, 2010, 4070, 1030, APPJ 2013, Rega Brio, Marantz Imperial 7's, Klipsch Heresy III, Quartets, KG4's, KG1's, 'The Sixes', R-12SW, Polk SDA 2a's, Monitor 7cTL's, SDA CRS's, 4a's, Zu Audio Dirty Weekends, Pro-ject Acryl TT, Cambridge 851N, 351C, Panamax 5300PM -
And while on the subject, what dictates the sensitivity/efficiency of a speaker? The driver design or crossover or both??
Well --
fundamentally the design of the drivers and enclosure design (more to the point, the way the drivers are loaded).
Since amplifier power has been cheap since the advent of solid state amplification (early 1960s), high-sensitivity loudspeaker design fell out of fashion.
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Looking good!
Yeah, pretty much tailor made for low-power. Kind of borderline for fleapower, though.
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mhardy6647 wrote: »And while on the subject, what dictates the sensitivity/efficiency of a speaker? The driver design or crossover or both??
Well --
fundamentally the design of the drivers and enclosure design (more to the point, the way the drivers are loaded).
Since amplifier power has been cheap since the advent of solid state amplification (early 1960s), high-sensitivity loudspeaker design fell out of fashion.
Seems that higher sensitivity, modern speakers equate to much higher $$ prices. Horns (i.e., Klipsch etc.) seem to have a higher sensitivity and can be more affordable. Those Polk 4A's intrigue me but just not sure if they would fit with the flea power. Guess for $150 (incl. shipping) it's worth a try. They would look nice sitting on top of my 7's.Carver M4.0t, M1.0t, M200t, TX2, C1, C2, Marantz 2230, 2010, 4070, 1030, APPJ 2013, Rega Brio, Marantz Imperial 7's, Klipsch Heresy III, Quartets, KG4's, KG1's, 'The Sixes', R-12SW, Polk SDA 2a's, Monitor 7cTL's, SDA CRS's, 4a's, Zu Audio Dirty Weekends, Pro-ject Acryl TT, Cambridge 851N, 351C, Panamax 5300PM -
Looking at an Ebay listing for a nice looking pair of these. Would the sensitivity of 91db's with these little bookshelf speakers make them a contender for a flea powered tube amp??
Polk Audio Monitor 4A
Type
2 way, 2 driver loudspeaker system
Frequency Response
35Hz to 25kHz
Sensitivity
91dB
Impedance
6Ω
Recommended Amplifier
20 to 100W
Drive Units
1 x 6.5" cone bass, 1 x 1" dome tweeter
Dimensions
14.24 x 8.5 x 7.5"
Weight
32 lb
yeah, so the six ohm impedance (probably) has implications for the reported sensitivity figure.
The "standard" for sensitivity measurements is (usually) taken as dB SPL at 1 meter measured for an input of 2.83 AC Volts.
Now -- 2.83 VAC is 1 watt into 8 ohms -- but it's about 1.3 watts into 6 ohms (and 2 watts into 4 ohms).
The speaker is a little less sensitive (on a per watt basis) than one would expect for an 8 ohm speaker).
Sorry I am not expressing myself very well today The bottom line is, sensitivity-wise, you're getting shortchanged a wee bit, at least on paper, due to the 6 ohm impedance relative to an 8 ohm speaker.
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Would i connect them up to the 4ohm or 8ohm taps?Carver M4.0t, M1.0t, M200t, TX2, C1, C2, Marantz 2230, 2010, 4070, 1030, APPJ 2013, Rega Brio, Marantz Imperial 7's, Klipsch Heresy III, Quartets, KG4's, KG1's, 'The Sixes', R-12SW, Polk SDA 2a's, Monitor 7cTL's, SDA CRS's, 4a's, Zu Audio Dirty Weekends, Pro-ject Acryl TT, Cambridge 851N, 351C, Panamax 5300PM
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16 ohm nominal impedance.
ca. 104 dB SPL @ 1 meter for 2.83 VAC input (0.5 watts into 16 ohms).
Like a big-block V8, There is no replacement for displacement.
DSC_9976 (3) by Mark Hardy, on Flickr -
Would i connect them up to the 4ohm or 8ohm taps?
My guess would be 4 ohm, so that you aren’t using a low impedance on the amp, but ohms are relative to frequency, so maybe it doesn’t matter? -
Try both taps and stick with the one that sounds better to you.
No harm will be done either way to amp or speaker(s).
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Just an update. jan 5654s, 6AQ5s (with adapters) & the Maverick I bought from @DaveHo
This sounds way better than it has any right to.
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Just an update. jan 5654s, 6AQ5s (with adapters) & the Maverick I bought from @DaveHo
This sounds way better than it has any right to.
[emphasis added]
Spoiler alert: Tube hifi-cognoscenti super-secret tip comin' up...
They all do.
