My power needs management!
mdaudioguy
Posts: 5,165
So... I wasn't really thinking about audio and power needs when I wired my basement. All my outlets are on one 15A circuit. The electrical box is on the opposite side of the basement, but fortunately, the ceiling is still only half finished, so I should be able to pull a wire across for a dedicated outlet behind my cabinet, in addition to the shared outlet from the existing circuit. I'm planning a single 12 gauge run with a 20A breaker. The number of things needing to be plugged in seems to have grown beyond what my simple mind had considered...
1. TV
2. AVR
3. Integrated amp
4. Subwoofer
5. Squeezebox Touch power supply
6. DAC (yet to buy)
7. Roku box
8. PlayStation
9. Ethernet switch
10. Probably something else I can't think of now
11. Probably another something else I can't think of now
What things would you suggest I put on the new "dedicated" circuit, and which should I leave on the existing circuit?
Also, what things benefit the most from power conditioning? Everything?
I must admit that I haven't often cared too much about surge protection. We've been here over 18 years and I've never had a situation that's made me think I needed it. More often than not, I've only used cheaper power strips with surge protection as a convenience, not for protection. I do, however, have my family room system running through a Panamax PM8-EX surge protector, and my sunroom HT goes through a Monster HTS 3600 MkII power conditioner, except the amp, which has always gone straight into the wall. For the basement system, I want to do it right, or at least righter... So for now, it'll just be getting that additional line run with probably two outlets in a double box at the end. Nothing fancy. Some power cord upgrades will be next, but later.
Thoughts? Suggestions?
1. TV
2. AVR
3. Integrated amp
4. Subwoofer
5. Squeezebox Touch power supply
6. DAC (yet to buy)
7. Roku box
8. PlayStation
9. Ethernet switch
10. Probably something else I can't think of now
11. Probably another something else I can't think of now
What things would you suggest I put on the new "dedicated" circuit, and which should I leave on the existing circuit?
Also, what things benefit the most from power conditioning? Everything?
I must admit that I haven't often cared too much about surge protection. We've been here over 18 years and I've never had a situation that's made me think I needed it. More often than not, I've only used cheaper power strips with surge protection as a convenience, not for protection. I do, however, have my family room system running through a Panamax PM8-EX surge protector, and my sunroom HT goes through a Monster HTS 3600 MkII power conditioner, except the amp, which has always gone straight into the wall. For the basement system, I want to do it right, or at least righter... So for now, it'll just be getting that additional line run with probably two outlets in a double box at the end. Nothing fancy. Some power cord upgrades will be next, but later.
Thoughts? Suggestions?
Comments
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1. I have admitted that I am powerless over my emotions, that my life had become unmanageable.
2. Came to believe that a Power greater than myself could restore me to sanity.
3. Gave up because of number 2. -
I would suggest plugging everything except the amp and subwoofer into a power conditioner, and use the 15 amp circuit for this.
The sub and amp, I would plug directly into the 20 amp receptacles, or into a device designed for high current applications. Shuntaya's Amp-1 would be an example.
May want to consider another 20 amp run or 3. Might as well do it while it's easily accessible, and not worry about it in the future.
Available and not being used is better than I need more later on. -
We're all insane.afterburnt wrote: »1. I have admitted that I am powerless over my emotions, that my life had become unmanageable.
2. Came to believe that a Power greater than myself could restore me to sanity.
3. Gave up because of number 2. -
Don't exceed 1800w on the 15A line or 2400w on the 20A... The nice thing about this is that since the voltage remains constant, watts all remain the same as they directly correlate to Amps.
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I get what you're saying, but there won't be anything significant to follow. I'm happy building this as an end game system for me. So, the sub and the amp on the dedicated line. Kind of what my gut was telling me.I would suggest plugging everything except the amp and subwoofer into a power conditioner, and use the 15 amp circuit for this.
The sub and amp, I would plug directly into the 20 amp receptacles, or into a device designed for high current applications. Shuntaya's Amp-1 would be an example.
May want to consider another 20 amp run or 3. Might as well do it while it's easily accessible, and not worry about it in the future.
Available and not being used is better than I need more later on. -
Don't exceed 1800w on the 15A line or 2400w on the 20A... The nice thing about this is that since the voltage remains constant, watts all remain the same as they directly correlate to Amps.
well, kind of -- other than that little feature of AC-powered devices called Power Factor.
https://www.rapidtables.com/electric/Power_Factor.html
The PF of most hifi equipment operating at steady state, I think, is pretty close to unity -- but not every component on a line necessarily has a PF of identically 1 (one). Thus, E*I (voltage times current) isn't necessarily identically equal to P (power, in watts).
Good ol' inductive & capacitive reactance -- it's part of what makes this stuff so much fun.
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Oh, now yo just had to bring trig into the mess
Can't we just keep it simple?
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Just looked in some manuals and the top four already have me over 1200W. Seems like the second circuit is a must. Wish I'd planned this better.Don't exceed 1800w on the 15A line or 2400w on the 20A... The nice thing about this is that since the voltage remains constant, watts all remain the same as they directly correlate to Amps.
1. TV - 148W
2. AVR - 250W
3. Integrated amp - 220W
4. Subwoofer - 600W -
Yeah, @mhardy6647, can I just look at your answers?Oh, now yo just had to bring trig into the mess
Can't we just keep it simple?
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Oh, a Kill-A-Watt will measure "real" power and E*I (volt-amperes), compare the two and calculate (and display) Power Factor.
IMO a Kill-A-Watt is a handy little gizmo to have around for many different reasons.
http://www.p3international.com/products/energy-savers.html -
Oh yeah? Name a couple, because I'm just a click away from having one of these new toys delivered here in 2 days.mhardy6647 wrote: »IMO a Kill-A-Watt is a handy little gizmo to have around for many different reasons.
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Looks like you should already consider a second 20 amp circuit.
Personally I ran 4 20 amp circuits for my system. Only one duplex plug on each circuit. Currently using 3 of them: amp on one, sub on second, and AVR/BD/TV through power conditioner on third. -
mdaudioguy wrote: »
Oh yeah? Name a couple, because I'm just a click away from having one of these new toys delivered here in 2 days.mhardy6647 wrote: »IMO a Kill-A-Watt is a handy little gizmo to have around for many different reasons.
Well, you can measure power consumption of a component. Any component. Or a whole slew of things (e.g., plugged into a power strip). For example, two tube monoblocks -- are they the same? One may be mis-biased and using more power. A noninvasive way to test (handy for us DIY morons who build stuff that doesn't always work quite as intended!). I also use 'em when bringing up antique (vacuum tube) gear on a Variac to measure current draw and/or power consumption.
You can measure line voltage and frequency.
You can measure -- derp -- power factor.
You can enter your cost of electricity per kW-hr and the gizmo will read out the
cost of operating any given component.
I'm sure I'm forgetting something.
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You're probably right! Maybe I can do two.
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Ed keep in mind that the numbers you have are peak numbers. None of the components listed run like that steady state. The closest would be the tv, and the furthest would likely be the sub.
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The thing is unless you are running constant 10Hz sine waves through your stereo your AVR, Integrated, and Subwoofer aren't going to be pulling anything close to that much power.afterburnt wrote: »They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.
Village Idiot of Club Polk -
What if you hit the Power Ball? Then you will wish you had four 20 amp circuits!
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You get a 20 amp circuit! YOU get a 20 amp circuit!afterburnt wrote: »What if you hit the Power Ball? Then you will wish you had four 20 amp circuits! -
mhardy6647 wrote: »mdaudioguy wrote: »
Oh yeah? Name a couple, because I'm just a click away from having one of these new toys delivered here in 2 days.mhardy6647 wrote: »IMO a Kill-A-Watt is a handy little gizmo to have around for many different reasons.
Well, you can measure power consumption of a component. Any component. Or a whole slew of things (e.g., plugged into a power strip). For example, two tube monoblocks -- are they the same? One may be mis-biased and using more power. A noninvasive way to test (handy for us DIY morons who build stuff that doesn't always work quite as intended!). I also use 'em when bringing up antique (vacuum tube) gear on a Variac to measure current draw and/or power consumption.
You can measure line voltage and frequency.
You can measure -- derp -- power factor.
You can enter your cost of electricity per kW-hr and the gizmo will read out the
cost of operating any given component.
I'm sure I'm forgetting something.
Sold! Do you get commission? -
Yeah, of course I do!
You can see how much (how little) they cost -- and you'll know why I drive a beat-up old Toyota instead of a Bentley.
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mdaudioguy wrote: »
Just looked in some manuals and the top four already have me over 1200W. Seems like the second circuit is a must. Wish I'd planned this better.Don't exceed 1800w on the 15A line or 2400w on the 20A... The nice thing about this is that since the voltage remains constant, watts all remain the same as they directly correlate to Amps.
1. TV - 148W
2. AVR - 250W
3. Integrated amp - 220W
4. Subwoofer - 600W
There is no way you will get close to drawing 1200 watts with real world playing. Do you often turn everything in your system to Max at the same time? Even then you will need to hit a high peak in the music to instantaneously draw all the watts. Before the breaker even thinks about tripping you will have other major problems with your speakers clipping, amp overheating, and your ears bleeding.
For most listening you are only using a tiny fraction of what your gear is rated at.
But go ahead and put in a 20 amp line. Its not that hard if you have access. -
I have the following items in my system downstairs:
APC H15 - IEC
Denon X4100w - IEC
AC Infinity S8 (cooling fan for Denon) - 12v wallwart
Squeezebox Classic - 12v wallwart
B&K 200.5 - IEC
AC Infinity S8 (cooling fan for B&K) - 12v wallwart
Linksys 8 port switch - 12v wallwart
Dish TV Receiver - 12v wallwart
Xbox One - IEC
Crown XLS2000 - IEC
Crown XLS2000 - IEC
MiniDSP 2x4 - IEC
RetroPi gaming system - 12v wallwart
Panasonic 60" Plasma - IEC
When running my dedicated lines @lightman1 and I decided to do 3 20 amp circuits in one shot. Took longer, he cursed me early, often (and still does) but it made things super easy since I shouldn't ever need more lol. Here is how we broke my stuff out:
Circuit 1 (Source gear)
-Everything connected to APC H15 which is:
--Denon X4100w - used as a pre-amp only
--AC Infinity S8 (cooling fan for Denon)
--Squeezebox Classic
--AC Infinity S8 (cooling fan for B&K)
--Linksys 8 port switch
--Dish TV Receiver
--Xbox One
--MiniDSP 2x4
--RetroPi gaming system
--Panasonic 60" Plasma
Circuit 2
-B&K 200.5 - powers all my speakers forever
Circuit 3
-Crown XLS2000 - front subs
-Crown XLS2000 - rear subs
The second we kicked the power back on after installing them I noticed 3 things:
1. My plasma seems to have a MUCH better picture (brighter, better contrast, darker blacks). I attribute this to having more current available since it wasn't sharing with other current hog stuff
2. My B&K seemed to come alive and hold its own better on transients. Power for days
3. My Crown amps made my subs beg for mercy much better.
Would I run more than 3. Probably not. I'm content that if I need more connections for source gear that the 1st circuit can provide the wattage with no problem.
If I get more amps, I'd likely either run em on the B&K circuit (if they are for main speakers), or the Crown circuit (if they are for subs).
I'd also suggest installing a whole home surge protector AT THE PANEL. Then you dont need to stress about plugging your stuff direct into the wall.... ANYWHERE in the house.
I run my amps direct to the wall outlets (PS Audio somethings).
I also was then able to justify upgrading all IEC cables to PS Audio AC-3's.
So if you can, I'd run another 2 circuits and you'd be good."....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
Thanks @EndersShadow, for the detailed reply!
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Been meaning to post this since the first time I read the thread title:
Edit: points if you know what this is without looking it up. -
The thread title made me think of a Warren Zevon song -- but the title isn't Vanilla-friendly.
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Got my new toy yesterday. Haven't killed any watts yet, however. Evidently, my neighbors in Eldersburg have been happy with theirs!mhardy6647 wrote: »Yeah, of course I do!
You can see how much (how little) they cost -- and you'll know why I drive a beat-up old Toyota instead of a Bentley.
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Been meaning to post this since the first time I read the thread title:
Edit: points if you know what this is without looking it up.
He-Man’s sword?2 Channel
Pre:Bryston BP173
Amp:Bryston 14B3
Speakers: Golden Ear Triton Reference
Source: Oppo UDP-205, Bryston BDA-3, Bryston BDP-3, Bryston BCD-3, Apple TV, Amazon Fire
Cables: Wireworld Gold Eclipse 7 Speaker, Wireworld Gold Eclipse 7 XLR, AQ Diamond USB/HDMI
Power: PS Audio P10 Regenerator, AC12, AC10 and AC5 Cables
Display: Sony XBR65Z9F
Home Theater
Pre: Anthem AVM90
Amps: Parasound A31, A51x2
Speakers: Polk LSiM 707 (FL/FR), Polk LSiM706 (Center), LSiM 703 (SL/SR/SBL/SBR), Polk 900-LS (Atmos)
Subwoofers: SVS SB16 x 4
Source: Oppo UDP-205, Apple TV, Amazon Fire
Cables: AQ Meteor/Rocket 88, AQ Niagara/Sky
Power: Torus AVR20, Shunyata Denali, Shunyata Delta, Cullen, PangeaAC9SE Cables
Display: Sony XBR85Z9G -
He!
Has!
the Power!!!
*Now let's see how well you "manage" it...
See where I went? -
Doesn't this belong in that other thread?? -
Lol, no, well maybe, but the thought I my head happened before the start of that other thread.
*Just confirmed I posted a day ahead of it too.
