Backert Rhumba 1.2 vs Cary SLP-98
GlennDog
Posts: 3,121
first off, I'm not an audiophile, but a hi-fi enthusiast ... here's my experience
I've had the SLP-98 Cary for a few years and I am totally happy with her, with the single exception of zero XLR connections. When a local offer of a Rhumba 1.2 came available, I couldn't resist the temptation. This offer was about 6 weeks ago, LONG AFTER the CP demo of the first iteration, which I somehow missed.
The Rhumba 1.2 (Not the Extreme) sports these updates over the original version.
From Backert:
- Enhanced “all GreenForce” power supply – increases access to pure AC from the wall outlet, giving the Rhumba 1.2 even more rhythm and dynamics
- Improved power supply regulator
- Premium Jensen transformers
- More massive front plate
- Additional chassis damping throughout
- New Silk II circuit in gain stage and regulator for better dynamics, more sweet and open sound
- Ceramic tube sockets
- Phase correct
- Enhanced gold IEC inlet from Furutech
- Enhanced circuit board: double the copper
- Red/blue cover options, $100
Mine arrived in basic black
This pre is solid and competes respectably with the Cary. However, Cary dominates wrt musicality and rhythm, as I kind of expected it to.
Don't get me wrong, the Rhumba is musical, with rhythm, it's just that Cary has more of it. Which I like a lot.
The Cary rules in the lower frequencies, too. That, I was't anticipating.
I received the Rhumba with late model Telefunkens and sounded ok, but dry
The only tubes rolled into the Rhumba (so far) are late 1950's GE JG 5814A grey plates
and 1960s Tung Sol 12AU7 grey plates.
Both are good pre amps. But for comparable used US dollars spent (minus the cost of tubes), the nod goes to the "sweet little pre" (i.e. SLP)
Time will tell. But, for now, Cary stays . . .
I've had the SLP-98 Cary for a few years and I am totally happy with her, with the single exception of zero XLR connections. When a local offer of a Rhumba 1.2 came available, I couldn't resist the temptation. This offer was about 6 weeks ago, LONG AFTER the CP demo of the first iteration, which I somehow missed.
The Rhumba 1.2 (Not the Extreme) sports these updates over the original version.
From Backert:
- Enhanced “all GreenForce” power supply – increases access to pure AC from the wall outlet, giving the Rhumba 1.2 even more rhythm and dynamics
- Improved power supply regulator
- Premium Jensen transformers
- More massive front plate
- Additional chassis damping throughout
- New Silk II circuit in gain stage and regulator for better dynamics, more sweet and open sound
- Ceramic tube sockets
- Phase correct
- Enhanced gold IEC inlet from Furutech
- Enhanced circuit board: double the copper
- Red/blue cover options, $100
Mine arrived in basic black
This pre is solid and competes respectably with the Cary. However, Cary dominates wrt musicality and rhythm, as I kind of expected it to.
Don't get me wrong, the Rhumba is musical, with rhythm, it's just that Cary has more of it. Which I like a lot.
The Cary rules in the lower frequencies, too. That, I was't anticipating.
I received the Rhumba with late model Telefunkens and sounded ok, but dry
The only tubes rolled into the Rhumba (so far) are late 1950's GE JG 5814A grey plates
and 1960s Tung Sol 12AU7 grey plates.
Both are good pre amps. But for comparable used US dollars spent (minus the cost of tubes), the nod goes to the "sweet little pre" (i.e. SLP)
Time will tell. But, for now, Cary stays . . .
AC Regenerator PS Audio PerfectWave Power Plant 10
Source Lumin U1 Mini into Lampizator Baltic 4 DAC
Pre Cary SLP-05
Power Rogue M180 Dark monos
Mains Salk HT2-TL
Rythmik F12
Source Lumin U1 Mini into Lampizator Baltic 4 DAC
Pre Cary SLP-05
Power Rogue M180 Dark monos
Mains Salk HT2-TL
Rythmik F12
Comments
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Nice writeup. Im glad you got to tube roll it also before making a decision. Why the big urge for XLR? A lot of arguments for both sides (rca vs xlr) are out there.Klipsch The Nines, Audioquest Thunderbird Interconnect, Innuos Zen MK3 W4S recovery, Revolution Audio Labs USB & Ethernet, Border Patrol SE-I, Audioquest Niagara 5000 & Thunder, Cullen Crossover II PC's.
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No logical reason… Just got itching to try it!AC Regenerator PS Audio PerfectWave Power Plant 10
Source Lumin U1 Mini into Lampizator Baltic 4 DAC
Pre Cary SLP-05
Power Rogue M180 Dark monos
Mains Salk HT2-TL
Rythmik F12 -
I was in a similar boat as you. I had a Cary SLP03 and had a major itch. I contemplated the Rhumba due to its stellar reviews. BUT! For the same money I could grab an SLP05 instead (used of course). I ended up grabbing one in fabulous condition for about 3200 USD with shipping. And I’m really glad I did, this preamp is stunning to say the least. For the money I don’t think anything would beat it.2 channel:
Bryston 4B3, Bryston BDA3, Cary SLP05, Shanling CDT1000SE with parts conneXion level 2 mods, Nottingham analogue ace space 294, soundsmith Carmen MKii, Zu DL103 MKii, Ortofon MC 20 MKii, Dynavector XX2 MKii, Rogue Audio Ares, Core power technologies balanced power conditioner, Akiko Corelli power conditioner with Akiko Audio HQ power cable, Nordost heimdall 2, Frey 2, interconnects, speaker and power cables, Focal Electra 1028 BE 2, Auralic Aries Femto, Black diamond racing cones, ingress audio level 1 roller blocks, JL Audio E110 with Auralic subdude, Primacoustics room treatments.
Theater:
Focal Aria 926,905,CC900, SVS PB ultra x2. Pioneer Elite SC85, Oppo BDP93, Panamax M5400PM, Minix neox6, Nordost Blue heaven LS power cables. -
Strange question, did you listen to the Rhumba via xlr or rca?Klipsch The Nines, Audioquest Thunderbird Interconnect, Innuos Zen MK3 W4S recovery, Revolution Audio Labs USB & Ethernet, Border Patrol SE-I, Audioquest Niagara 5000 & Thunder, Cullen Crossover II PC's.
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I happen to absolutely love my rhumba 1.1. Can’t compare to Cary but I’m not sure I ever will need anything else2 Channel in my home attic/bar/man cave
2 Channel Focal Kanta 3 I Modwright SWL9.0 Anniversary Pre I Modwright PH9.0X I Modwright KWA-150SE I VPI Prime Signature w/ Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC I Lumin U2 Mini I North Star Designs Intenso DAC I Audience OHNO ICs/Audience Furutech FP-S55N and FP-S032N Power Cables/Acoustic Zen Satori I Isotek Sirius -
Excellent write up.
Amazing little pre that SLP98.
I had a couple of versions (regular then F1) in teh past, but once I got a hold of the Cary 05, I never really wanted more.
You may want to try the 05 somedayMagico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
Maybe you just haven't found the right tubes for your tastes in that Rhumba. Tube rolling certainly makes a difference in anything tubed. I might try a few other combinations before parting ways.
The Cary is no slouch on it's own merits. I could live with either pre. To me, both these pre's are somewhat of a sideways comparison. If looking to better the 98, you'd have to step up the game plan.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
Strange question, did you listen to the Rhumba via xlr or rca?
RCAs, but I'm looking at balanced cables and may get a chance to try that soon ...Maybe you just haven't found the right tubes for your tastes in that Rhumba. I might try a few other combinations before parting ways.
If looking to better the 98, you'd have to step up the game plan.
I'll be trying a couple of variants that I just acquired from Andy at Vintage Tube Svcs. I never really was wanting to change-up the pre (with the exception of me thinking I need XLR connections)AC Regenerator PS Audio PerfectWave Power Plant 10
Source Lumin U1 Mini into Lampizator Baltic 4 DAC
Pre Cary SLP-05
Power Rogue M180 Dark monos
Mains Salk HT2-TL
Rythmik F12 -
I’m not totally convinced Balanced connections are required. I played around this weekend and was swapping in XLR vs RCA and the only thing I could detect was a change in gain, and maybe a lower noise floor? But could have been my imagination. I think a properly designed RCA will sound just as good as XLR connections, with the exception of long runs. I’ve also noticed a lot of high end preamps have only unbalanced connections.2 channel:
Bryston 4B3, Bryston BDA3, Cary SLP05, Shanling CDT1000SE with parts conneXion level 2 mods, Nottingham analogue ace space 294, soundsmith Carmen MKii, Zu DL103 MKii, Ortofon MC 20 MKii, Dynavector XX2 MKii, Rogue Audio Ares, Core power technologies balanced power conditioner, Akiko Corelli power conditioner with Akiko Audio HQ power cable, Nordost heimdall 2, Frey 2, interconnects, speaker and power cables, Focal Electra 1028 BE 2, Auralic Aries Femto, Black diamond racing cones, ingress audio level 1 roller blocks, JL Audio E110 with Auralic subdude, Primacoustics room treatments.
Theater:
Focal Aria 926,905,CC900, SVS PB ultra x2. Pioneer Elite SC85, Oppo BDP93, Panamax M5400PM, Minix neox6, Nordost Blue heaven LS power cables. -
Wonder how the Joule Electra stacks up against the Cary or Rhumba...
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The joule has a bit more bloom over the Rhumba but the Rhumba was tighter and a hair more on top. Both were darm good.Klipsch The Nines, Audioquest Thunderbird Interconnect, Innuos Zen MK3 W4S recovery, Revolution Audio Labs USB & Ethernet, Border Patrol SE-I, Audioquest Niagara 5000 & Thunder, Cullen Crossover II PC's.
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It's hard comparing tube components if you aren't using the same tube compliment. Tubes can have a profound effect on the final sound. I can make my pre sound ordinary or extraordinary just by tube rolling.
Comparing 6SN7; 12AU7; 5751 and 6350 tubes vary widely. It's not an apples to apples comparison if the pieces compared are using widely different tubes.
That's always something to keep in mind when reading comparisons of tube components.
But if you are familiar with all units and know what tube compliment you like best for each component and then comparing your single favorite iteration of each. Maybe that would be helpful.
I've never really compared my tube components directly. Just found what works best and I've been lucky that each step up I've made has been an improvement. That's not always the case and in many cases it can be directly related to tube choice.
Just my .02c and food for thought.
H9
P.s. Tube rectified vs. non-tube rectified is another very big difference in sound."Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
Hello Gents,
Nice to see this thread, and we appreciate the Polk crowd keeping us in mind. However the results that you got Glenn after your careful testing don't seem quite ... right somehow. Not that you did anything wrong of course: we understand that you found one of the switches on the Rhumba to be bent off kilter when you received it -- it sounds like your unit may have taken some hits and should be looked at. I've spoken with Bob Backert about it and we'd like to bring it into the shop for a once over (we'll email you a FedEx label). Would that be OK?
-AndyThe preamp specialists. http://BackertLabs.com -
Regardless of the outcome of the test ^^THAT^^ is great customer service you don't see much anymore. Good on you Andy & Backert.VA HT HK AVR20II, Sony S9000ES CD/DVD/SACD, Polk Audio RC80i / Polk Audio CSi3, 60" Panasonic Plasma, Nordost / Signal Cable A2 / Wireworld / Pangea / Magic Power
VA 2 Channel Focal Electra 926 speakers, Pass Labs X150.5 Amp, Eastern Electric MiniMax Preamp (Tutay mods), Eastern Electric Minimax CDP (Scott Nixon mods), Music Hall mmf 5.1 Turntable, Parks Audio Budgie Phono Pre , Audioengine B1 streamer, MIT S3 IC's / MIT Shotgun S3 Speaker Cables / PS Audio power cables
Noggin Schiit Valhalla, Pangea, Phillips Fidelio X1, Polk UF8000
Polk SDA1c modded
Polk CRS+ 4.1TL modded (need veneer)
Polk SDA2BTL (fully modded)
A/L 1000VA Dreadnought Canare 4s11 SDA cable
SACD Marantz DV8300
Sony S9000ES CD/DVD/SACD
Yamaha YP-D6
Soundcraftsmen PCR800
Audible Illusions L1 Preamp
Vincent MFA based Cocci Tube Preamp
Pho-700 Phono Pre
Signal Cable Silver Resolution IC's -
@GlennDog That is amazing customer service!Klipsch The Nines, Audioquest Thunderbird Interconnect, Innuos Zen MK3 W4S recovery, Revolution Audio Labs USB & Ethernet, Border Patrol SE-I, Audioquest Niagara 5000 & Thunder, Cullen Crossover II PC's.
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BackertLabs wrote: »it sounds like your unit may have taken some hits and should be looked at. We'd like to bring it into the shop for a once over. Would that be OK?
-Andy
Absolutely! I'll take you up on that ... Thanks!@GlennDog That is amazing customer service!
Sho-nuff, Brian! Unsolicited service request. Outstanding offer . . .
A little more back-story . . .
This unit was manufactured in April 2017. I bought it locally on the 'Gon in February 2018.
The seller was a nice guy and knew his stuff. The impression I got, was that he rotates pieces like a revolving door. So that explains his short time with the Rhumba.
It turns out I'm the 3rd owner in less than a year. Seems high to me, but a non-issue.
The unit works well and looks clean, sans for a bent toggle switch. The bent toggle is probably a common thing bc the plastic shipping wrapping on the pre specifically states "Use care when removing bag past knobs and switches."
Dare I say, men don't read instructions?!?! lol
I was able to gently bend the toggle closer to it's original position.
I'll update as things progress.
Thanks again Bob & Andy!AC Regenerator PS Audio PerfectWave Power Plant 10
Source Lumin U1 Mini into Lampizator Baltic 4 DAC
Pre Cary SLP-05
Power Rogue M180 Dark monos
Mains Salk HT2-TL
Rythmik F12 -
Awesome!"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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And this explains exactly why I purchased from Backert! American made and fantastic support!2 Channel in my home attic/bar/man cave
2 Channel Focal Kanta 3 I Modwright SWL9.0 Anniversary Pre I Modwright PH9.0X I Modwright KWA-150SE I VPI Prime Signature w/ Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC I Lumin U2 Mini I North Star Designs Intenso DAC I Audience OHNO ICs/Audience Furutech FP-S55N and FP-S032N Power Cables/Acoustic Zen Satori I Isotek Sirius -
Quick update.
Communication with Andy at Backert Labs has been top notch, always Johnny On The Spot.
I hesitated to put any $$ into this pre, but I've decided to, so I've upgraded to the Mundorfs and other cap upgrades
From BL site:
"The Mundorf caps give the unit more resolution in the midrange. Just a more clear light shining on those key mid frequencies.
Better caps throughout gives the unit more clear and deeper sound. Maybe a little more bass but mostly clarity and depth."
I've also decided to replace the black front apron with silver . . . and the black chassis with the "red" offering
Here's a sneak peak as to what she'll look like . . . I Like red. Redheads, too!
https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis8ihb0-backert-labs-rhumba-1-2-tube-preamp-preamplifier-tube
ETA to my door is next weekend, give or take.
Thoughts to follow after she's broken-in
GAC Regenerator PS Audio PerfectWave Power Plant 10
Source Lumin U1 Mini into Lampizator Baltic 4 DAC
Pre Cary SLP-05
Power Rogue M180 Dark monos
Mains Salk HT2-TL
Rythmik F12 -
Looking forward to it!!!
2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC
erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a -
Even out the playing field and send out the cary for upgradeMagico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R
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Even out the playing field and send out the cary for upgrade
In full disclosure, I failed to include in my initial "non-audiophile review" that the SLP-98 had been sent to Cary for hot rodding. My bad
IIRC; hexfreds, HT by-pass and direct coupledAC Regenerator PS Audio PerfectWave Power Plant 10
Source Lumin U1 Mini into Lampizator Baltic 4 DAC
Pre Cary SLP-05
Power Rogue M180 Dark monos
Mains Salk HT2-TL
Rythmik F12 -
I think they have mundorf upgrades available
I am contemplating sending my 05 for the ultimate upgrade
Maybe when I have extra play moneyMagico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
BackertLabs wrote: »it sounds like your unit may have taken some hits and should be looked at. We'd like to bring it into the shop for a once over. Would that be OK?
-Andy
Absolutely! I'll take you up on that ... Thanks!@GlennDog That is amazing customer service!
Sho-nuff, Brian! Unsolicited service request. Outstanding offer . . .
A little more back-story . . .
This unit was manufactured in April 2017. I bought it locally on the 'Gon in February 2018.
The seller was a nice guy and knew his stuff. The impression I got, was that he rotates pieces like a revolving door. So that explains his short time with the Rhumba.
It turns out I'm the 3rd owner in less than a year. Seems high to me, but a non-issue.
The unit works well and looks clean, sans for a bent toggle switch. The bent toggle is probably a common thing bc the plastic shipping wrapping on the pre specifically states "Use care when removing bag past knobs and switches."
Dare I say, men don't read instructions?!?! lol
I was able to gently bend the toggle closer to it's original position.
I'll update as things progress.
Thanks again Bob & Andy!
This is why I will always recommend BL as the people down there, as well as behind the scenes, are customer based in their thoughts. This is the type of company we all wish others would be, a blast from the past when customer service was a top priority .
Take Andy up on his offer, they take great pride in their products and you being happy with them.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
I think they have mundorf upgrades available
I am contemplating sending my 05 for the ultimate upgrade
Maybe when I have extra play money
Dude, that’s nonnegotiable… Just do it!AC Regenerator PS Audio PerfectWave Power Plant 10
Source Lumin U1 Mini into Lampizator Baltic 4 DAC
Pre Cary SLP-05
Power Rogue M180 Dark monos
Mains Salk HT2-TL
Rythmik F12 -
Oh buddy it’s always negotiable here hahahaMagico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
This is why I will always recommend BL as the people down there, as well as behind the scenes, are customer based in their thoughts. This is the type of company we all wish others would be, a blast from the past when customer service was a top priority
Folks at BL genuinely seem to want to get it right . . .
Between the requested upgrades and tweeks, there's been an in-house break-in process.
I've got a warm fuzzy feeling. Great CS!
The pre is being shipped in the AM.
I'm looking forward to the new look and the new and improved SQ . . .AC Regenerator PS Audio PerfectWave Power Plant 10
Source Lumin U1 Mini into Lampizator Baltic 4 DAC
Pre Cary SLP-05
Power Rogue M180 Dark monos
Mains Salk HT2-TL
Rythmik F12 -
Cool man, post up your thoughts once it hits your ears. Great bunch over at BL.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
I won’t get a chance to hook it up till late this weekend ...
but here’s a sneak peek
First thing that comes to mind is “2 brothers from other mothers!”
Just to be clear, coloring is heavily dependent on lighting
AC Regenerator PS Audio PerfectWave Power Plant 10
Source Lumin U1 Mini into Lampizator Baltic 4 DAC
Pre Cary SLP-05
Power Rogue M180 Dark monos
Mains Salk HT2-TL
Rythmik F12 -
Sweet system there man....let that bad boy burn in some before making any judgements. Love the color too.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's
