Denon 3803 shuts down

dave shepard

Hey guys today I was listening to a new audio dvd I bought for my wife (Hoobastank "The Reason") for her birthday and the reciever (set on 5 channel stereo) shut down halfway through and the stand-by light was left flashing. This was the first time this ever happened and it did it twice, I had to shut it off and restart the reciever to play it again. I had the volume pretty loud -11 (it has been calibrated at a referance level of 0 for HT). I assume it shut down because it thought it was getting too hot but I have run it that loud before and it never shut down. This was the first time it was turned on today so it was cold before playing and I couldn't hear where it was clipping the sound was very clear and clean just loud . has this happened to anybody before. The DVD player is 1.5 in. above the reciever do I need more space between them?

Thanks guys

Dave

Frank Z

6-8" is what is normally recommended for clearance above a receiver. A small fan would also help eliminate the excess heat, but it may cause a bit of distracting noise as well.

F1nut

Is this the first time you have played a DVD-A that loud?

dave shepard

I have played DVD's loud but never paid attention to where the volume was at until this happened. The -11 setting was turned up on one song the rest was being played at -18/-19.

Demiurge

Yikes...This was a reciever I was interested in at some point. Hope to read some good replies on this one.

Dr. Spec

Check for loose connections and interconnects. -11 shouldn't be a problem at all for yor speaks high passed at 80 Hz; piece of cake load.

dave shepard

I just came in from working outside and tried it again. Before I did I checked the fiber cable and the only other cables are the componet going to the tv, should I check the other ones and could they cause this? Anyhow I put the same DVD in and turned the reciever up to -11 and took some measurements while this was going on and halfway through the seconed song it shut down. The rat shack meter was reading 106/109 dbls and I also have a Raytec infrared temp gun and the hottest spot on the reciever was 149 degrees (in the middle of the top cover).Does this seems hot for the short time it was playing? It seems to be odd to me and I sure hope it isn't some real problem.

Dave

amulford

Sounds like it may be have some heat problems.

I would check all the connections (incl. speakers), Make sure that you don't have anything set up parallel, as this would halve the resistance.

Then look inside really good to check for dust buildup. If so, the try to get it out.

If all else fails, send it to Denon CS. They are really good about fixing stuff. I had an 1802 that needed repair twice. Once I fried a transistor in the amp section. It's still going strong...

F1nut

106-109dB is pretty effn loud. What distance did you measure that from? In any case, I think you have a output transistor problem.

jcaut

I'm pretty sure, without digging the manual out, that my 3801 is supposed to have at least 4 inches clearance around the top and each side. Possibly even six..... I'd have to look again. I've got about 4.5" above mine, and it gets rather warm. It's warm whether or not it's playing loud: Even at idle it's pretty warm. 149 is what I'd call hot, though.

Considering the conditions under which it shut down though, I think yours may have a problem. It probably needs more ventilation regardless. You might try giving it some more breathing room and see if it does it again.

Jason

Edit: I just read your original post again. I think the receiver's just getting too hot. Running 5 channel stereo, loud..... even if your speakers are set to small. Sounds like it ought to be a piece-of-cake load, but I'm not so sure. I've measured the impedance of my Rt800i's and Cs400i, as well as some RT3's. They're all significantly below 8 Ohms at several points on the curve. I'm sure your 70's and Cs40 at least, are similar.

Give it some more air.

dave shepard

My room is 19x25x9 and I was standing in the middle. It is loud but for some reason this morning I felt the need to wake the neighbors (1 is 70yrds away and the other is 125 yrds) . I sometimes get in the mood to jam loud and it toltaly took me off guard and still bugs me that the reciever goes in the +'s and it can't do -11 before shutting down .

jcaut

Read my edit, above, if you didn't already see it.

dave shepard

I will give it it's own spot on the rack as suggested and see if it happens again, but will have to do it tomarrow it's getting to late tonight and will let you all know the outcome.

Thanks guys

Dave

F1nut

Originally posted by dave shepard
My room is 19x25x9 and I was standing in the middle.

Then at 1 meter it would have been much louder. I think you have maxed out (over driven) your receiver.......

still bugs me that the reciever goes in the +'s and it can't do -11 before shutting down .

......just because the volume goes into the +'s doesn't mean you should put it there. DVD-A is a hi-rez format, the gain is much higher than CD's or DVD video's. So, what is loud at say your reference level of 0 for HT, hasn't got crapola to do with the volume level of DVD-A playback. Even between two DVD-A's the max volume for one might be lower than the other.

Let's say your volume control goes from -65 to +15, even at -11 you are way over the halfway mark on the volume control. Now, you can probably get away with your 0 reference level for HT because most movies have lots of dialogue with some peak demands here and there. Most music places higher demands on your receiver from the get-go and the peaks are even greater.

Having said all that, you may still have cooked a output transistor along the way of having the volume too high and/or not having enough ventilation.

jcaut

F1nut probably knows more about this than I do, but I would hope that the protection circuits have enough safety margin built-in to keep you from toasting the output transistors, unless you're making it shut down regularly. Does it act ok when you DON'T have it turned up so far?

I would also tend to agree that you're asking too much of it. It's a good solid HT receiver, but if you want to listen at that volume and power level (especially x5 channels) it may be time to look for some real power amps.

Jason

F1nut

Jason,

I was thinking a possible OT problem because at first he said halfway though the DVD-A and then later halfway though the second song, which indicates a deteriorating condition.

jcaut

Jesse,

True. But the first time he had been playing at a lower level, then cranked it up on one song, right? I bet he didn't ease into it the second time.

Why am I still on here at this hour???

Goodnite!

Jason

F1nut

Ah, good on ya. I missed that tidbit of info, so you're most likely right that he's not damaged it yet.

And that's good question........I don't know either, Goodnight.

Dr. Spec

Yep, the next step is to give 'er some air and see if the prob goes away. Run it in free space and measure the temps again.

The protection circuit is designed to engage from heat, short, or too low impedance.

If it shuts off in free air, I would call Denon CS.

I was originally thinking -11 is NBD, but that's for HT, where many passages are much quieter for longer periods. On 5 channel music, it's a sustained output to several channels. Maybe you are pushing it pretty hard at -11 and it just needs to breathe.

dave shepard

I think I made a bad referance as to what I was playing, it was a CD not a DVD-A , sorry about that, it was playing in 5-channel stereo. Does that still make a differance. I will move the player to another spot giving the reciever more space to breath when I get home. Sorry for the confusion with calling the CD a DVD.

Dave

dave shepard

I forgot to mention that it still runs and plays the same as before at lower levels no problems at all. When I get home I'll make the move and see what happens.

Dr. Spec

it was playing in 5-channel stereo. Does that still make a differance.

Yes, it makes a difference. The 5/7 channel stereo mode sends a pretty steady stream of signal content to the other 3/5 speakers. High res really doesn't do this nearly as much.

It's incredible how much louder it gets switching from stereo to "5/7 Stereo" on two channel CD source material. Check with an SPL meter and you'll see.

For example, a 10 dB difference in average SPL would require 10X more power output.

dave shepard

here are some pics of the result and room size

dave shepard

lets try again

dave shepard

another

dave shepard

another one

dave shepard

last one guys

dave shepard

I took these to show ya what I've been seeing. I took the them after the reciever shut down after the begining of the 3rd song of the same CD. What this shows me and hopefully others that you (or at least me) can't and shouldn't play a CD in 5-channel stereo at a volume level of -11 unless you wish to experance the shut down I have. The reciever has not been hurt in anyway from what I see, it still plays as well and accurate as before but I'm sure it is not a good thing to do on a regular basis. The reciever has been put on it's own shelf (as shown in the pic) as requested and it did run alittle longer then before but still heated up to 149 scalding degrees (as shown in the pic) and shut down. The only question I have now is how loud can I play it safely? My room is alittle on the big side and so are the a-joining rooms if I get the need to crank-it up would a set of amps help keep things cool (looking into the future not now) ? and what power rating would be best (I was thinking of 200x2 outlaw's). I sure don't do it often but sometimes you just feel the need to let it rip and don't want to worry about having a desaster happen.

Dave

nemos2

Dave ,

After looking at the posts, it sounds like you were just pushing the denon to hard.

If you are looking at the outlaws I would strongly recomend them. I run an outlaw 755 and love it. I use a denon 2800 (old) as my pre-amp, and the combo works well. I did see a major difference when I added the amp. Well worth it in my mind.

good luck.

Dr. Spec

The new spot for the 3803 looks great. It appears "5 Stereo" just sucks too much power. The protection circuit is doing it's job, though. The Outlaw 7100 will get the job done for $900 and can probably tolerate long duration high output sessions without wilting. Of course the 770 is a bruiser, too - but 2X the price.

dave shepard

Thanks for all you help guys. When I'm ready for amps I will do some auditioning with your guys help. I do have a couple questions though about amps. I assume that they will run or at least can run hot also, right? If I go the outlaw 4-200x2 blocks would I need the same 4-6" space between them like the Denon or can I stack them ontop one another? I am also coincidering a single 200x7, for either one will the power draw be too much for the same ciruit running the other equipment? I do not have a dedicated circuit for the equipment. Final question, given the amp will pruduce 200x7 will the electric bill suffer as a result for the amp being added, just curious? The Monster amp in a previous post is a pretty nice looking amp also that's one of the others I would like to look at.

Thanks guys

Dave

P.S. thanks for the easy to understand explanation of why the shut-down happened, even my wife understood it .