Need help with a question about line conditioners
danzilla31
Posts: 94
Hey guys been really enjoying the site since I joined this past couple months been a lot of great insight and help from the community. I have a basic question I could use your help with. I bought the S60 signature polks 3 for the front channels love em. Next step subwoofers and then amps. I bought AV racks to make room for the new gear. I also bought a Panamax 5300 line conditioner surge protector for each rack. I do believe some of the claims they state may be overhyped but I really liked them for the cable management helping to clean up the wiring being able to plug everything into them and I got them on a killer deal etc etc. My question is this I keep hearing back and forth opinions that these type of devices can affect amplifier performance and sound quality basically holding back the dynamic power of the amps and that they may not be able to handle the amp subs etc I'm gonna plug into them. Is they're any validity to this? When I get the new subs and then the amps especially should I just plug them into the wall? Any help and info on this would be greatly appreciated thanks you all for your time and input
Comments
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Depends on how critically you listen.
Yes, I believe they stunt dynamics and imaging and soundstage reproduction.
Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
The Panamax will choke your amps. Before my Shunyata gear I had Panamax. After I bought the Shunyata I moved the Panamax into the HT. Initially, I had only one 20 amp line, and the Triton for all the gear. Later I sent the Triton back for an upgrade so I thought I would try my Panamax 5400 as a temporary replacement since it had an amp meter, and I was curious about the current draw. Well, that lasted about 1-2 minutes since the Panamax buzzed and humed like crazy from the amps. LOL
On the other hand, the Shunyata is designed to not affect current, and the system sounds better going through the Shunyata versus plugged into the wall. Other manufacturers might also work, but Panamax is NOT designed for this type of purpose.Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
Depends on how critically you listen.
Yes, I believe they stunt dynamics and imaging and soundstage reproduction.
I appreciate your time and input without making you spend too much time trying to explain the science of it can you give me a basic idea of why? I already think your right. When I plugged in the gear I have now I noticed my subwoofer hum was gone that's good. But I just after listening for a week feel like something has been missing from well everything else highs loudness etc. I was thinking maybe it was in my head you know my perception . I'm really glad to hear my feelings and impressions are legit I'm hoping to understand why. I still have time to return them and save some coin for the subs if I feel like it but may keep them as plug in banks and just plug in the important stuff like subs and amps to the wall. Thanks man for your input really appreciated. -
can you give me a basic idea of why?
Most limit current and power amplifiers need unrestricted current to perform their best.
Do you have dedicated 10 gauge 20 amp lines?Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
The Panamax will choke your amps. Before my Shunyata gear I had Panamax. After I bought the Shunyata I moved the Panamax into the HT. Initially, I had only one 20 amp line, and the Triton for all the gear. Later I sent the Triton back for an upgrade so I thought I would try my Panamax 5400 as a temporary replacement since it had an amp meter, and I was curious about the current draw. Well, that lasted about 1-2 minutes since the Panamax buzzed and humed like crazy from the amps. LOL
On the other hand, the Shunyata is designed to not affect current, and the system sounds better going through the Shunyata versus plugged into the wall. Other manufacturers might also work, but Panamax is NOT designed for this type of purpose.
Hey thanks Blue Fox you guys are really explaining some things from listening this past week that I thought were in my head. I'll definitely have to look into some of the options you have thanks for the input -
Take your time, read and learn. This area can get expensive fast, so the more you know beforehand the fewer mistakes you will make. Good luck.Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
can you give me a basic idea of why?
Most limit current and power amplifiers need unrestricted current to perform their best.
Do you have dedicated 10 gauge 20 amp lines?
Yes I do two for that part of the room so that's not an issue a friend that really knows his stuff in speaker systems and electrical double checked for me so I'm good on that part. Based on your guy's replies I'm really wondering how to go forward. They can still be returned although I do like plugging everything else in back they're. Should I return them and use the coin for the subs or use them for all the rest of the stuff and just plug the heavy duty stuff directly into the wall? Any suggestions you could give would be greatly appreciated. -
Take your time, read and learn. This area can get expensive fast, so the more you know beforehand the fewer mistakes you will make. Good luck.
Thanks man -
Plug the rest into them, amps straight into the wall.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
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Education is the key to anything.
Start here.
http://shunyata.com/
http://shunyata.com/technology-guide/
http://shunyata.com/technical-articles/
Spend some time on other manufacturers websites. Read their patents, and their White Papers. Learning is almost as much fun as listening.
Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
danzilla31 wrote: »Depends on how critically you listen.
Yes, I believe they stunt dynamics and imaging and soundstage reproduction.
I appreciate your time and input without making you spend too much time trying to explain the science of it can you give me a basic idea of why? I already think your right. When I plugged in the gear I have now I noticed my subwoofer hum was gone that's good. But I just after listening for a week feel like something has been missing from well everything else highs loudness etc. I was thinking maybe it was in my head you know my perception . I'm really glad to hear my feelings and impressions are legit I'm hoping to understand why. I still have time to return them and save some coin for the subs if I feel like it but may keep them as plug in banks and just plug in the important stuff like subs and amps to the wall. Thanks man for your input really appreciated.
I have not done extensive testing between many conditioners so take my experience with a grain of salt.
What I have tested so far is PS Audio P5 Regenerator and the Torus RM15.
I sold the P5 Regenerator after I realized it numbed out the highs and took out a good portion of the soundstage. I initially thought it was more focused at lower volumes but when I turned up the volume to realistic levels, I realized I no longer had the bloom of the soundstage (meaning the expansion of the soundstage was limited) especially front to back.
I now have the Torus RM15 which is very good. It improved on the P5 sonics, and still gives me surge protection. I read up on the Torus RM15 and the way it was designed was to actually provide a bank of power available for the components to draw upon even greater than what is available from the outlet.
There are a few other "conditioners" that do something similar.
1. Audioquest Niagara 5000/7000.
2. Furman Reference 15i and Reference 20i.
3. Torus RM15/20/etc
4. Bryston BIT15/20
I have the Furman 15 Elite PFi at home as well, but I've been so busy that I have not bothered to test it against the Torus. Maybe once I have the room a little more set and I have time to sit and test, I can do so in my "lab".Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
danzilla31 wrote: »Depends on how critically you listen.
Yes, I believe they stunt dynamics and imaging and soundstage reproduction.
I appreciate your time and input without making you spend too much time trying to explain the science of it can you give me a basic idea of why? I already think your right. When I plugged in the gear I have now I noticed my subwoofer hum was gone that's good. But I just after listening for a week feel like something has been missing from well everything else highs loudness etc. I was thinking maybe it was in my head you know my perception . I'm really glad to hear my feelings and impressions are legit I'm hoping to understand why. I still have time to return them and save some coin for the subs if I feel like it but may keep them as plug in banks and just plug in the important stuff like subs and amps to the wall. Thanks man for your input really appreciated.
I have not done extensive testing between many conditioners so take my experience with a grain of salt.
What I have tested so far is PS Audio P5 Regenerator and the Torus RM15.
I sold the P5 Regenerator after I realized it numbed out the highs and took out a good portion of the soundstage. I initially thought it was more focused at lower volumes but when I turned up the volume to realistic levels, I realized I no longer had the bloom of the soundstage (meaning the expansion of the soundstage was limited) especially front to back.
I now have the Torus RM15 which is very good. It improved on the P5 sonics, and still gives me surge protection. I read up on the Torus RM15 and the way it was designed was to actually provide a bank of power available for the components to draw upon even greater than what is available from the outlet.
There are a few other "conditioners" that do something similar.
1. Audioquest Niagara 5000/7000.
2. Furman Reference 15i and Reference 20i.
3. Torus RM15/20/etc
4. Bryston BIT15/20
I have the Furman 15 Elite PFi at home as well, but I've been so busy that I have not bothered to test it against the Torus. Maybe once I have the room a little more set and I have time to sit and test, I can do so in my "lab".
Everything your saying is exactly what I heard myself in my system -
Education is the key to anything.
Start here.
http://shunyata.com/
http://shunyata.com/technology-guide/
http://shunyata.com/technical-articles/
Spend some time on other manufacturers websites. Read their patents, and their White Papers. Learning is almost as much fun as listening.
I really appreciate the guidance I've had a lot of fun getting into this hobby but learning from others and as you said gathering my own knowledge has been part of the fun and is keeping me from making a lot of mistakes. I'll still make some of course just hopefully not so many -
What about the outlets labled "high current"?
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I am well disposed to continuing this lively discussion. Please don't hesitate to add your thoughts on this vital topic. Damnit I didn't order enough power cables!
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afterburnt wrote: »What about the outlets labled "high current"?
Warning: Don't stick your finger in them!!!2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC
erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a -
txcoastal1 wrote: »afterburnt wrote: »What about the outlets labled "high current"?
Warning: Don't stick your finger in them!!!
Awe come on. Lick your fingers and stand in a puddle. It will make him a man... -
Aw come on guys, is that really gonna make my amps sound better?
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afterburnt wrote: »Aw come on guys, is that really gonna make my amps sound better?
May tweek a few brain cells, just don't know if that's a positive or negative result. Doctors seem the think shock therapy works for some
I had good results, 1st adding a couple 20amp circuits, and integrating Furman Elite 20 and/or dectet's2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC
erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a -
Interesting thread at AA on (sort of) this topic at the moment, FYI and FWIW:
https://www.audioasylum.com/audio/general/messages/73/734660.html
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afterburnt wrote: »What about the outlets labled "high current"?
Hey afterburnt my experience with the Panamax was I had them plugged into those outlets and literally from day one I could hear a difference in the sound. I was walking around ears to speakers going what happened to my sound! Did I blow something? Lol. The moment I did what was recommended by everyone and from what I learned on research and plugged the reciever and subs straight back into the wall everything came back to life again. From what I'm learning Panamax and ceartin types of conditioners just aren't built for that kind of thing they restrict current and anything with an amp ain't gonna like it. All I can say is my system didn't seem to. From what I'm learning they're are ceartin kinds that won't affect sound but I'll keep it simple and just plug them into the wall. I kept them though I really liked plugging all my other stuff in they're cleaning up the cables etc and the on and off banks are super cool. I plug my dvr etc stuff that always needs to stay on into the always on banks and like the fans for my racks into the off banks since they don't have an off switch so I can just turn em off from the Panamax which comes in handy. And as for protecting my amps and subs etc I just unplug them when I'm not using them which really is the best way to protect your gear anyway it can't hurt what isn't there lol.Post edited by [Deleted User] on -
mhardy6647 wrote: »Interesting thread at AA on (sort of) this topic at the moment, FYI and FWIW:
https://www.audioasylum.com/audio/general/messages/73/734660.html
cool thread thanks! -
danzilla31 wrote: »afterburnt wrote: »What about the outlets labled "high current"?
Hey afterburnt my experience with the Panamax was I had them plugged into those outlets and literally from day one I could hear a difference in the sound. I was walking around ears to speakers going what happened to my sound! Did I blow something? Lol. The moment I did what was recommended by everyone and from what I learned on research and plugged the reciever and subs straight back into the wall everything came back to life again. From what I'm learning Panamax and ceartin types of conditioners just aren't built for that kind of thing they restrict current and anything with an amp ain't gonna like it. All I can say is my system didn't seem to. From what I'm learning they're are ceartin kinds that won't affect sound but I'll keep it simple and just plug them into the wall. I kept them though I really liked plugging all my other stuff in they're cleaning up the cables etc and the on and off banks are super cool. I plug my dvr etc stuff that always needs to stay on into the always on banks and like the fans for my racks into the off banks since they don't have an off switch so I can just turn em off from the Panamax which comes in handy. And as for protecting my amps and subs etc I just unplug them when I'm not using them which really is the best way to protect your gear anyway it can't hurt what isn't there lol.
I cant remember if I tried my 2 channel amps without the conditioner. I did try my A31 off the wall and did not hear a difference but that was when that whole system wasn't sounding too good. As it stands now I have new power cords that wont reach the wall or there are no outlets available. I have had a Dectet in my cart for ages and it keeps getting bumped for other stuff.Post edited by [Deleted User] on -
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PGNPC4
Maybe something like this would work for you. -
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PGNPC4
Maybe something like this would work for you.
Cool I will try one. -
I tried one. Be aware that they have extremely tight gripping plugs that will scratch the blades on your power cables.afterburnt wrote: »Cool I will try one.
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afterburnt wrote: »http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PGNPC4
Maybe something like this would work for you.
Cool I will try one.
Whatever you check out good luck on finding what your looking for
