SDA 2A - Weak Center Image

hochpt21

I'm assuming speaker placement?

I just wanted to check here first before I wen't through the process of removing the spikes and messing with speaker placement, but could positioning cause a weak center image?

I have switched some gear around in that system so I thought it may have been a weak component, but last night I ran it it two different configurations with the same result.

Width of the soundstage is crazy wide, but from the speakers and out, it sounds loud/rich/full, while in between the speakers it is softer and weak. Vocals are placed properly in the center, but just sound soft and recessed.

Any ideas would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Paul

BC6

I had the same problem and it turned out one of my tweeters was wired out of phase.

hochpt21

BC6 wrote: »

I had the same problem and it turned out one of my tweeters was wired out of phase.

Good info. I will check that out. Thank you.

dromunds

If the problem appeared recently would it be tweeter out of phase? I would think you’d have had the problem always if that was the case. At least since tweeter was changed.

Legender

I have kind of the same problem. Recently moved my unmodified 3.1tls from one room to another and have lost the center imaging... unless I slide about a foot to either side of center and then I hear the voice just off center.

In the original room they did not have a good wall behind them and the room was large and open with 12 ft ceilings. It had a back wall and a left wall, but not much on the right but an angled fireplace. Listening position was about 15 feet from the speakers and the speakers were about 9 feet apart with a rack in between them.

Now, I've re-purposed the dining room and the speakers have a nice wall behind them that has definitely improved the base, but lost the center imaging.
I'll have to spend more time on positioning them.
Both rooms are only ceramic tile and I know I need to fix that.

gmcman

What are the rest of the setup dimensions...., diatance between speakers, distance to side wall, distance to front wall, are they facing straight forward...No toe In?

Can you post a pic?

smglbrth

When I had them (if they are the one's I sold you) they were 7ft apart, 6.25 to 6.5 inches from the back wall. I also didn't have anything stacked up to/between the tweeter level. All of the equipment I had at the time was only 2 feet off the floor, at most. There was several feet, like 8 or 10, on each side. Of course, all rooms vary with carpeting, ceiling height, etc..., but I never noticed that when I was running them. Maybe Don noticed it when he listened to them?

EndersShadow

My center imaging is spot on.

Like above, mine are 7 feet apart edge to edge, and about 7-8" off the back wall. There is a entertainment center between them that is 28" tall, so its barely below the mids and tweeters.

The LP is about 10 feet back.

I'm running all my sources in Stereo with no issue at all.

dromunds

smglbrth wrote: »

When I had them (if they are the one's I sold you) they were 7ft apart, 6.25 to 6.5 inches from the back wall. I also didn't have anything stacked up to/between the tweeter level. All of the equipment I had at the time was only 2 feet off the floor, at most. There was several feet, like 8 or 10, on each side. Of course, all rooms vary with carpeting, ceiling height, etc..., but I never noticed that when I was running them. Maybe Don noticed it when he listened to them?

No, I never heard it at your place which is why I doubt it is a tweeter out of phase. They sounded great at your place. I think it’s a placement issue myself

verb

From the SDA handbook:

My 1C handbook actually recommends initial placement of the speakers 4ft apart, and experiment from there.

hochpt21

Sorry for the delayed response.

I have a feeling that it may be my equipment between the speakers.

I have had a pair of 2A's down in that rig for about 4 years now. I never experienced it before. Then I moved @smglbrth pair in there and I don't remember experiencing it right off the bat. I have moved a variety of gear in and out of there, and just started experiencing it a month ago when I was auditioning a new turntable.

I thought that the passive preamp was the culprit, but then I took that out of the chain and still have the same issue.

Now that I think about it, I switched equipment racks awhile back that now takes the equipment above tweeter height (or at least level with it). I don't think I have critically listened since that point.

I'll post a picture and some dimensions very soon.

hochpt21

hochpt21

9 inches from back wall

6 feet apart tweeter to tweeter

Outside edge of each speaker is 20 inches from the wall.

verb

A picture tells a thousand words. I would say the speakers are too close to the adjacent walls. The rack has solid sides which acts kinda like an adjacent wall as well. Open racks are better. The front face of the speakers are also behind the front of the rack/equipment. It should be forward of it.

hochpt21

That makes sense. I’ve had an open rack down ther for a long time and just recently switched it out.

hochpt21

@DSkip I do have 5 panels in the room.

I am almost sure it is the new shelf I have the equipment on, because I have had the room really dialed in the past.

When I get the opportunity, I will take that shelf out and see what the results are.

hochpt21

DSkip wrote: »

Awesome. Pics didn't show that and I made an assumption.

The room is kind of messy. I didn't want to post the whole thing until I could organize it...LOL

EndersShadow

hochpt21 wrote: »

When I get the opportunity, I will take that shelf out and see what the results are.

Stop being "shelfish" and do it now

verb

I used to have traditional entertainment center type audio cabinet with a glass door. Swapped it with an open cabinet. Moved my 1C's closer together (about 5') and about 32" from the corners. 6" from the back wall. BOOM! They came alive!

hochpt21

verb wrote: »

I used to have traditional entertainment center type audio cabinet with a glass door. Swapped it with an open cabinet. Moved my 1C's closer together (about 5') and about 32" from the corners. 6" from the back wall. BOOM! They came alive!

Is that 5’ inside edge to inside edge? Mine are just under 5’ apart when measured that way.

I have a less than ideal room, but with the treatments, I did have it dialed in at one point.

I’ll get it back again..

It’s my second system (3rd if you count the HT) and three kids so time is the great denominator. I know, excuses....

Dawgfish

Like the others have said the front of the speakers need to be further out from the wall then your equipment rack. Even though it is typically recommend that SDAs be 6-12 inches from the back wall, l usually set mine in the 14-20 inch range from the back wall. Don't worry, even my CRSs have no problem producing great bass at this range. My SRS 2s will flat out punch you in the gut at that range.

I would also place the speakers closer together to get them further away from the sidewalls. Experimenting is key, every room is different.

verb

hochpt21 wrote: »

verb wrote: »

I used to have traditional entertainment center type audio cabinet with a glass door. Swapped it with an open cabinet. Moved my 1C's closer together (about 5') and about 32" from the corners. 6" from the back wall. BOOM! They came alive!

Is that 5’ inside edge to inside edge? Mine are just under 5’ apart when measured that way.

I have a less than ideal room, but with the treatments, I did have it dialed in at one point.

I’ll get it back again..

It’s my second system (3rd if you count the HT) and three kids so time is the great denominator. I know, excuses....

Yep. My alcove is the basement is just a little shy of ideal. Its dedicated for my 2 channel rig. Polk suggests placing them closer together (less than 6') in those cases. The key is to experiment! And have fun!