New (to me) amp: McCormack DNA-125

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Comments

  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 47,222
    Lots of amps, very excellent amps have a tiny bit of hiss heard only with your ear an inch or two from the tweeter. That is not an issue.

    An audible humming transformer is not normal.

    Not being able to hear a difference between the NAD and McCormack.....either the McCormack has issues, which seems to be the case and/or the mixer is subpar.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,682
    or both. In any event, sending it back if not satisfied is perfectly fine in my book. I would have done the same thing.
    HT SYSTEM-
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  • kharp1
    kharp1 Posts: 3,453
    Clipdat wrote: »
    Have you ever personally heard or used a Tascam XS-8, or its functionally equivalent model, the Ecler HAK 320?

    If not, please decline from making further comments about your preconceived notion of it's inferior sound quality.
    gmcman wrote: »
    I'm not saying there isn't the possibility of an issue with the Mccormack, but you can't compare the two in that context...imho.

    You're referring to an integrated setup compared to an amp being fed by DJ mixer.

    Not remotely a fair comparison IMO.

    There are several lifetimes of experience here, and, just because someone hasn't heard a particular piece doesn't mean they haven't had experience with the type. Trying to use a pro style DJ mixer for home audio and obtain the same SQ as you would with a pre designed for home audio has proved to be a waste of time and money in my experience. That comes from many years of experience as a sound guy for several bands, playing music live and having worked in high end audio.
  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 10,621
    edited January 2018
    I have NO experience in Pro gear but this description says it's pretty darn good . Albeit, the person is trying to sell it. But still.

    This Tascam unit is a virtual clone of the Ecler HAK 320 (see reference photo), one of the most respected scratch mixers of its time (early-mid 2000s). Much more affordable than its high-end competition, the XS-8 packed dangerously similar features and performance into a clean, functional layout.
    This mixer is in outstanding condition, with no visible flaws other than a missing left-center panel screw. It was very gently used at time of purchase and has been carefully stored since. All faders and knobs are in good working order, and sound quality is excellent. For the record, the crossfader is InnoFader upgradable by the user.
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,682
    Yeah well, the sound quality was excellent too on the Bose cubes, suppose to replace all your high end audio gear and speakers.

    Sometimes you have to read through the hyperbole and marketing junk and refer to real world experiences. However, if the man likes it, he likes it, wouldn't be a choice I would make but it's not me we are talking about.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 11,100
    Thanks for sharing your opinion that DJ mixers (which are simply a type of preamp) have inferior sound quality to home stereo preamps.

    What I'm taking exception to in this particular thread is comments about the specific mixer that I used for my listening tests. There's several pages of Google results that speak to the sound quality of this particular mixer.

    Furthermore, the listening tests were designed for me to gain the most insight into the sound signature of the amplifier that I was testing. I've used this exact mixer with two different sets of powered studio monitors, as well as three different sets of separate speaker and amplifier setups. I've logged a lot of hours on it, and so I know that it does not color the sound that's passing through it.
    kharp1 wrote: »
    There are several lifetimes of experience here, and, just because someone hasn't heard a particular piece doesn't mean they haven't had experience with the type. Trying to use a pro style DJ mixer for home audio and obtain the same SQ as you would with a pre designed for home audio has proved to be a waste of time and money in my experience. That comes from many years of experience as a sound guy for several bands, playing music live and having worked in high end audio.

    I challenge you to keep an open mind in regards to what exactly a "DJ mixer" is capable of, instead of just automatically assuming that all DJ mixers have inferior sound quality to home stereo preamps.

    For example take a look at the specs for another DJ mixer that I own and then tell me that it would be a "waste of time" and be unable to obtain the same sound quality as a "pre designed for home audio".

    http://dj.rane.com/blog/introducing-the-rane-mp2014-two-channel-rotary-mixer

    Sound Quality
    Professional high-end sound quality begins and ends with the audio signal converters. The MP2014 uses AKM[2] Premium Audio Device™ delta-sigma modulator converters that meet the highest sound quality standards of recording studios. The balanced differential audio input converters deliver 116 dB dynamic range,utilizing a built-in modified FIR architecture that minimizes group delay, allowing excellent linear phase response. The 24-bit audio output converters have the same 116 dB dynamic range and sport AKM’s proprietary 24-bit digital filter for better sound quality achieving low distortion characteristics and wide dynamic range. The differential outputs eliminate the need for AC coupling capacitors further increasing performance.Input and output converters support sample rates of 44.1 kHz, 48 kHz, or 96 kHz. Overall Digital/USB in to Line-out, or Line-in to Digital/USB out dynamic range is 116 dB (A-weighted), while Line-input to Line-output dynamic range is a remarkable 113 dB (A-weighted) with vanishingly low THD+N of 0.001%.
  • dhart86
    dhart86 Posts: 1,592
    If you are still looking for a McCormack amp, I have a McCormack DNA 0.5 SMC Rev B
    that I could be persuaded to sell. It's dead quiet.
    Main Rig:
    Antipodes DX > Roon > PS Audio Directstream Jr.>deHavilland Ultraverve 3 >Belles Reference 150a >Harbeth C7 ES3


    Second Rig:
    Roon> PS Audio Directstream Jr Bridge II > EE Minimax pre (Tutay mods) >Belles 150A Ref >Monitor 5 (Westmassguy-modded)


  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 47,222
    edited January 2018
    What I'm taking exception to in this particular thread is comments about the specific mixer that I used for my listening tests. There's several pages of Google results that speak to the sound quality of this particular mixer.

    The Internet is full of stellar reviews for Emo amps when they came out. Time has proven otherwise.

    Maybe it's time to try a good home audio pre amp.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 11,100
    Whatever amp I try next will be auditioned first with the Tascam just like how I did this one.
    F1nut wrote: »
    Maybe it's time to try a good home audio pre amp.

  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 10,621
    edited January 2018
    tonyb wrote: »
    Yeah well, the sound quality was excellent too on the Bose cubes, suppose to replace all your high end audio gear and speakers.

    Touché :#

    Sometimes you have to read through the hyperbole and marketing junk and refer to real world experiences. However, if the man likes it, he likes it, wouldn't be a choice I would make but it's not me we are talking about.

    I'm one who like Bose for background sound. But I've always had better home speakers for my stereo pleasures. I like big speakers. My JBL purchase 3 or 4 months ago proves that. But back to Bose. I compared RT55's to Bose 301's years ago. I still have those RT55's. I got them from a member here when he and some others were going down to Georgia I think for a Polk Audio Reunion. :p Now the Bose 301's sound good but lack compared to Polk RT55's. Not even close.
    m4rmd7mdwlcn.jpg
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 47,222
    Tony, those were from Ben. We met you under an overpass on 95. Thanks again for the BBQ....excellent!!!
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • mikeyb128
    mikeyb128 Posts: 2,886
    [email protected] I would follow your own advice and keep an open mind to a home audio preamp. The DJ mixer might sound good, but it’s possible it may not be good enough to reveal the differences between amps. I don’t think anyone is knocking it, but suggesting that it is likely the bottle neck in your setup.

    I once used a benchmark dac as a pre amp, I thought this thing was the bees knees. That was until I tried a tube preamp. Blew my sack way back!
    2 channel:
    Bryston 4B3, Bryston BDA3, Cary SLP05, Shanling CDT1000SE with parts conneXion level 2 mods, Nottingham analogue ace space 294, soundsmith Carmen MKii, Zu DL103 MKii, Ortofon MC 20 MKii, Dynavector XX2 MKii, Rogue Audio Ares, Core power technologies balanced power conditioner, Akiko Corelli power conditioner with Akiko Audio HQ power cable, Nordost heimdall 2, Frey 2, interconnects, speaker and power cables, Focal Electra 1028 BE 2, Auralic Aries Femto, Black diamond racing cones, ingress audio level 1 roller blocks, JL Audio E110 with Auralic subdude, Primacoustics room treatments.
    Theater:
    Focal Aria 926,905,CC900, SVS PB ultra x2. Pioneer Elite SC85, Oppo BDP93, Panamax M5400PM, Minix neox6, Nordost Blue heaven LS power cables.

  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 11,100
    I am keeping an open mind to a home audio preamp. I purchased a new Schiit Saga and I'm starting a collection of 6SN7 tubes for it.
    mikeyb128 wrote: »
    [email protected] I would follow your own advice and keep an open mind to a home audio preamp. The DJ mixer might sound good, but it’s possible it may not be good enough to reveal the differences between amps. I don’t think anyone is knocking it, but suggesting that it is likely the bottle neck in your setup.

    I once used a benchmark dac as a pre amp, I thought this thing was the bees knees. That was until I tried a tube preamp. Blew my sack way back!

  • gmcman
    gmcman Posts: 1,667
    Clipdat wrote: »
    Have you ever personally heard or used a Tascam XS-8, or its functionally equivalent model, the Ecler HAK 320?

    If not, please decline from making further comments about your preconceived notion of it's inferior sound quality.

    I'm sorry if you took that as a condescending remark towards your gear.

    I have not heard The Tascam XS-8 or its equivalent. It also appears that the XS-8 does not have a straight analog pass through and the signal must travel through all the EQ circuits, albeit being in the centered positions.

    I understand you stated the mixer doesn't color the sound, perhaps it doesn't...that wasn't the point I was making.

    You stated you did a comparison begween an A&B setup (NAD) to a C&D setup (Tascam/McCormack) but the "C" portion didn't color the sound of a previous component not used in this test so the "C" component must not be the issue.

    Am I safe to assume that you believe the mixer is as good as any modern stereo preamp because it's solid state with no DSP circuitry and doesn't color the sound?

    I'm just trying to understand or get a feel for the limits of constructive criticism here.

    I had a good receiver once, then a few AVR's, a few preamps, they all sounded different, had their own special qualities, but none of them have been perfect.

    A preamp plays a big part on overall sound quality, soundstage depth, dynamics, etc.

    No one is telling you to toss your mixer, just be open-minded about other components specifically engineered for home audio.
  • kharp1
    kharp1 Posts: 3,453
    edited January 2018
    Clipdat wrote: »
    Thanks for sharing your opinion that DJ mixers (which are simply a type of preamp) have inferior sound quality to home stereo preamps.

    What I'm taking exception to in this particular thread is comments about the specific mixer that I used for my listening tests. There's several pages of Google results that speak to the sound quality of this particular mixer.

    Furthermore, the listening tests were designed for me to gain the most insight into the sound signature of the amplifier that I was testing. I've used this exact mixer with two different sets of powered studio monitors, as well as three different sets of separate speaker and amplifier setups. I've logged a lot of hours on it, and so I know that it does not color the sound that's passing through it.
    kharp1 wrote: »
    There are several lifetimes of experience here, and, just because someone hasn't heard a particular piece doesn't mean they haven't had experience with the type. Trying to use a pro style DJ mixer for home audio and obtain the same SQ as you would with a pre designed for home audio has proved to be a waste of time and money in my experience. That comes from many years of experience as a sound guy for several bands, playing music live and having worked in high end audio.

    I challenge you to keep an open mind in regards to what exactly a "DJ mixer" is capable of, instead of just automatically assuming that all DJ mixers have inferior sound quality to home stereo preamps.

    For example take a look at the specs for another DJ mixer that I own and then tell me that it would be a "waste of time" and be unable to obtain the same sound quality as a "pre designed for home audio".

    http://dj.rane.com/blog/introducing-the-rane-mp2014-two-channel-rotary-mixer

    Sound Quality
    Professional high-end sound quality begins and ends with the audio signal converters. The MP2014 uses AKM[2] Premium Audio Device™ delta-sigma modulator converters that meet the highest sound quality standards of recording studios. The balanced differential audio input converters deliver 116 dB dynamic range,utilizing a built-in modified FIR architecture that minimizes group delay, allowing excellent linear phase response. The 24-bit audio output converters have the same 116 dB dynamic range and sport AKM’s proprietary 24-bit digital filter for better sound quality achieving low distortion characteristics and wide dynamic range. The differential outputs eliminate the need for AC coupling capacitors further increasing performance.Input and output converters support sample rates of 44.1 kHz, 48 kHz, or 96 kHz. Overall Digital/USB in to Line-out, or Line-in to Digital/USB out dynamic range is 116 dB (A-weighted), while Line-input to Line-output dynamic range is a remarkable 113 dB (A-weighted) with vanishingly low THD+N of 0.001%.

    I, sir, am not the one that is closed minded here. You stated that you will not use a pre designed for home, rather, you are going to test everything with your Tascam. That's certainly your choice. I am not close minded...I have used all typed of pro equipment from studio to road gear. I still have a couple of Rane pieces that I can't give away. There is a difference and you seem to not want to find out what those are. Good luck.

    Quoting specs tells me a lot about where you're at in your journey. Bypass the specs and listen first.

    BTW, anyone want a Rane 32 band EQ? That's how much I think of them!
  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 10,621
    I believe John used to be the first to post pictures like the above or at least say it was time to pop some popcorn. It was years ago so my memory is foggy as to who exactly did the popcorn thing. Maybe a few did. I always though, yea, opinions can be entertaining sometimes. As long as all parties keep cool.

    I remember when a new poster to the club would come on and mention Emotiva. POPCORN time. :p

    Or a new thread about wires. POPCORN time. :p

    But I think we all learn something. Everyone's different.
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 10,621
    edited January 2018
    Love the PUG connection !!!! :D Matches your Avatar pretty well.
    Viking64 wrote: »
    m8hujcd012np.jpg

    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 11,100
    This thread has already gone far enough off topic, so if you'd like to further discuss differences between home audio preamps and DJ mixer preamps feel free to PM me.
  • kharp1
    kharp1 Posts: 3,453
    Clipdat wrote: »
    This thread has already gone far enough off topic, so if you'd like to further discuss differences between home audio preamps and DJ mixer preamps feel free to PM me.

    I'm well aware of the differences, it seems you aren't. I'm not the one using a $200 mixer on a $1k amp. I'm not the one trying to sell that bag of mess. My stereo has no hum or buzz or hiss. My set up sounds great. Good luck in your journey. Again, my offer for a free Rane 32 band EQ is real, just pay shipping. It sits around much longer I'll throw it in the dumpster.
  • mikeyb128
    mikeyb128 Posts: 2,886
    Clipdat wrote: »
    I am keeping an open mind to a home audio preamp. I purchased a new Schiit Saga and I'm starting a collection of 6SN7 tubes for it.
    mikeyb128 wrote: »
    [email protected] I would follow your own advice and keep an open mind to a home audio preamp. The DJ mixer might sound good, but it’s possible it may not be good enough to reveal the differences between amps. I don’t think anyone is knocking it, but suggesting that it is likely the bottle neck in your setup.

    I once used a benchmark dac as a pre amp, I thought this thing was the bees knees. That was until I tried a tube preamp. Blew my sack way back!

    Awesome man! That’s a sweet tube! I think you’ll be happy.
    2 channel:
    Bryston 4B3, Bryston BDA3, Cary SLP05, Shanling CDT1000SE with parts conneXion level 2 mods, Nottingham analogue ace space 294, soundsmith Carmen MKii, Zu DL103 MKii, Ortofon MC 20 MKii, Dynavector XX2 MKii, Rogue Audio Ares, Core power technologies balanced power conditioner, Akiko Corelli power conditioner with Akiko Audio HQ power cable, Nordost heimdall 2, Frey 2, interconnects, speaker and power cables, Focal Electra 1028 BE 2, Auralic Aries Femto, Black diamond racing cones, ingress audio level 1 roller blocks, JL Audio E110 with Auralic subdude, Primacoustics room treatments.
    Theater:
    Focal Aria 926,905,CC900, SVS PB ultra x2. Pioneer Elite SC85, Oppo BDP93, Panamax M5400PM, Minix neox6, Nordost Blue heaven LS power cables.

  • txcoastal1
    txcoastal1 Posts: 12,284
    ^^^That was sweet :o<3 ...Seriously
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC

    erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a
  • Viking64
    Viking64 Posts: 5,751
    Good, because I just ran out of popcorn. *Burps, pukes, eats puke, pukes puke, farts, snorts, falls asleep.

    l0owu76qwgfm.jpg
  • txcoastal1
    txcoastal1 Posts: 12,284
    Viking64 wrote: »
    Good, because I just ran out of popcorn. *Burps, pukes, eats puke, pukes puke, farts, snorts, falls asleep.

    l0owu76qwgfm.jpg

    Just like my boxers
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC

    erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a
  • kharp1
    kharp1 Posts: 3,453
    txcoastal1 wrote: »
    Viking64 wrote: »
    Good, because I just ran out of popcorn. *Burps, pukes, eats puke, pukes puke, farts, snorts, falls asleep.

    l0owu76qwgfm.jpg

    Just like my boxers

    Or, they eat the poo out of the litter box, then, want to come lick all over your face. What the hel ll?
  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 11,100
    Thanks Kerry, apology accepted. Hope we can move on and continue to have constructive discussions about all things related to audio.

    I think this hobby is unlike most others, in that everyone's ears are different so everyone experiences music in a slightly different way. Everyone has had a different journey and experience with music and that shapes what resonates with them today. What works for one person may not work for another. One person might prefer Polk another B&W, etc. In this sense, there might not be one "best" way of doing things so I think that it's important to remember to keep an open mind when having these types of discussions. I will try to do better with this myself.

    I'll be the first to admit that I have a lot to learn, but I've also learned a lot being on Club Polk for the past several years. I will still probably try out both the Tascam DJ mixer preamp as well as the Schiit Saga passive/tube preamp on the next power amplifier that I get. If it turns out that the Tascam was indeed limiting the sound quality and/or reproduction, then I'll eat crow and make a post about it. Sometimes I have to make my own mistakes in life in order to move forward and learn.

    The McCormack will arrive back at TMR on Wednesday and they'll need a few days to get to testing it. So, we'll find out soon if the physical hum and the unit itself are deemed to be "normal" or not.
    kharp1 wrote: »
    I want to openly apologize to @Clipdat for any ill feelings I may have created over comments made previously in this thread. i reached out to him through PM and offered an apology and wanted to do so publicly for anything that may have been offensive. I want no ill will with anyone here on the forum. Sometimes things can get heated and I can say things that are rude or thoughtless. For that I want to apologize.

  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 21,000
    Clipdat wrote: »
    Sometimes I have to make my own mistakes in life in order to move forward and learn.


    There is a WHOLE lot of truth in this sentence ^^^^^^ for a LOT of people.
    I include myself as well.



  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,682
    txcoastal1 wrote: »
    ^^^That was sweet :o<3 ...Seriously

    lol....Kerry is a big teddy bear. Internet discussions can always take a turn south because you miss that face to face interaction. Kudos to you Kerry.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's