Fish Aquariums for the first timer

Ron-P

It started about 4 months ago, a one gallon bowl with a gold fish thanks to my 7 year old, she won it at a fair. That grew into a 5 gallon tank with more gold fish and now, as of Sunday, we are up to a 10 gallon with a water filter system.

I want to put the gold fish back into the smaller tank and go fresh water tropical in the 10g. I've got the filter and I know I need a heater. But what else?

Anyone have any tips, suggestions or recommendations before I make the move?

Demiurge

Originally posted by Ron-P
It started about 4 months ago, a one gallon bowl with a gold fish thanks to my 7 year old, she won it at a fair. That grew into a 5 gallon tank with more gold fish and now, as of Sunday, we are up to a 10 gallon with a water filter system.

I want to put the gold fish back into the smaller tank and go fresh water tropical in the 10g. I've got the filter and I know I need a heater. But what else?

Anyone have any tips, suggestions or recommendations before I make the move?

I've been into fishkeeping for a few years, and my fiance has been in it for her entire life.

A good start would be determining what kind of a goldfish they are. Some of them can get gigantic. Knowing that you got it at a fair may present a bit of a road block.

www.aquahobby.com is a GREAT resource. Check out the boards.

Once you know the type of goldfish i'll help you from there if you'd like.

Is your daughter really into the fishes? It's a great hobby....It can get as expensive as HT if it sticks!

Ron-P

Not too concerned with the gold fish as they will be moved to the smaller 5 gallon tank and I'll start anew with the 10 gallon.

My daughter is not into it at all, but the wife and I are.

Demiurge

Originally posted by Ron-P
Not too concerned with the gold fish as they will be moved to the smaller 5 gallon tank and I'll start anew with the 10 gallon.

My daughter is not into it at all, but the wife and I are.

What do you plan on putting in the 10?

Frank Z

Plastic plants are a plus for smaller fish that need a place hide, Rocks on the bottom, obviously a must have item. One small structure/rock with holes in it for any baby fish to hide in. I've got a treasure chest and diver connected to the airpump.

Check valves for the air pump are also a must have item, keeps the water from getting siphoned out of the pump fails.

At least 1 alge eater and a half dozen Ghost Shrimp to help keep the tank clean. The other fish like the shrimp too, a nice little snack I guess.

Barbs are to aggressive, they'll eat just about anything.

Keep the tank out of the sun light, you'll have less crud to scrape off later.

Aquatic frogs are a riot to watch.

Ron-P

Good deal. I'll pick up a heater and an air pump. Not sure what kind of fish yet. A few of the bottom feeders for sure.

Do the frogs need an above water rock to sit on? Those might make for a nice addition.

The tank will be out of direct sun light. It will be in a stand in our living room.

How often will the tank need cleaning?

Frank Z

Ron,
The frogs do not need a rock, keep your tank full.

Demiurge

Originally posted by Ron-P
Good deal. I'll pick up a heater and an air pump. Not sure what kind of fish yet. A few of the bottom feeders for sure.

Do the frogs need an above water rock to sit on? Those might make for a nice addition.

The tank will be out of direct sun light. It will be in a stand in our living room.

How often will the tank need cleaning?

Heh....

It's only a 10 gallon. You've got to be sure you're not overcrowding. You could get 2 otos max for algae, but you don't need algae eaters until a month or so AFTER the tank has been established and you have other fish in the tank. You could also consider 2 Corie Cats to add in with the otos. They like to be kept in pairs.

Frogs don't need a place to sit. I also wouldn't reccomend them. DO NOT GET AN AFRICAN CLAWED FROG if you do get a frog. They get huge and will escape. If you do get one i'd reccomend a dwarf frog.

The rule is 1 inch of fish per gallon. You need to make sure you take the ADULT size, not the fry or baby size.

It's a little more complex than just throwing in some gravel, a heater, and a pump. Trust me.

It isn't easy like people try to make it sound. Most of the people in the stores are just as clueless, unless you go to an exclusive fish store.

Ron-P

Ok, before I jump in I think I'll make a trip to the local book store and pick up a starter book on aquariums. This way I'll get started right and not end up with dead fish.

Demiurge

Originally posted by Ron-P
Ok, before I jump in I think I'll make a trip to the local book store and pick up a starter book on aquariums. This way I'll get started right and not end up with dead fish.

Good call. I can seriously help you with anything you need. Do you have AIM or anything? There are just some basics to know and the rest is all personal preference. I'm willing to help.


First mistake people usually make is buying a tank, filling it, and putting fish in it.

You actually have to fill it and make sure you put the de-chlorinator in it. Run it with pump and heater for at least 2 weeks before the fish go in. That is so the tank can get established, meaning that the bacteria can begin to form. The fish need it to survive.

When you get the gravel you need to make sure it's washed before you put it in your tank. Otherwise you'll have a cloudy tank and the setiment on the rocks could harm the fish.

You also need a thermometer. You can get the strip or the in tank with the mercury.

gidrah

I'm glad to hear it. I've been rearranging my 2-ch rig so that I'll have an aquarium betwwen the speakers. It's more relaxing than looking at a rack of gear.

I used to have 11 tanks set up. Ranging from 5 to 55 gallons. Most of them were in one small room. That room became my daughter's room though so the tanks had to go.

Ron-P

You actually have to fill it and make sure you put the de-chlorinator in it. Run it with pump and heater for at least 2 weeks before the fish go in. That is so the tank can get established, meaning that the bacteria can begin to form. The fish need it to survive.

When you get the gravel you need to make sure it's washed before you put it in your tank. Otherwise you'll have a cloudy tank and the setiment on the rocks could harm the fish.

All of this has already been done less the heater. I ordered a stand which should be here in about a week. Once that's here and the tank is set, I'll transfer the gold fish and start preping the tank. This week will give me the time to read up.

Thanks for the helping offer. I don't have AIM or anything as such. But PM'ing though Polk is just fine.

gatemplin

Demi has given you some great advice. I worked at an aquarium store for a few years and it is a great hobby.

Picking up some starter books is a good idea. Common problems for beginners are overfeeding, too much light, chloronated water, adding too many fish too soon, and not doing partial water changes.

Good luck with the first tropical fish tank Ron.

Demiurge

Originally posted by Ron-P
All of this has already been done less the heater. I ordered a stand which should be here in about a week. Once that's here and the tank is set, I'll transfer the gold fish and start preping the tank. This week will give me the time to read up.

Thanks for the helping offer. I don't have AIM or anything as such. But PM'ing though Polk is just fine.

As far as the heater is concerned...I'm a fan of the Ebo-Jager.

The common one you'll see is the Whisper, by Tetra. Tetra makes GREAT products, but my complaint with the heaters is that the black paint/thermal coating they put on the outside of their heaters tends to rub off and flake right in the water if you ever try to move it, and you will if you clean it..which is a must.

The Ebo-Jager's have no such paint/thermal coating on the outside of them. They're also VERY easy to adjust teperature-wise to be compatible with how your house is heated/cooled.


For your first fish i'd reccomend some hardy fish. It's good to start a new tank off with hardy fish and then you can usually trade them in at the store for different ones if you'd like. It's not a big $$$ worry because most freshwater tropical fish are pretty inexpensive. Some can get a little expensive, but not for the most part.

I'd reccomend some kind of a tetra. Do your research by looking at what you like in the store and then going to that aquahobby website I linked you to and reading up on the habits of the fish. They also include infro from people who own the particular species and which other species keep well with that particular fish. They also tell you how many you can get for the size tank you have, ect.

The easiest would be to run that by people at their message board or even here. Aquarium books aren't going to help that much in that arena, but care and maitinence will be well covered in most books.

Good luck with all this! It's a great hobby.

dorokusai

Demiurge has offered some good information. I encourage you to read as much as possible from his link, and your own surfing.

Smaller tanks need more maint, so larger tanks are easier to keep up.

Don't overcrowd as stated, too many fish, and they will all die or become stressed due to the nitrate/nitrite/ammonia levels being too high.

We just started about 4 months ago, and a key to successful aquarium is taking your time. You should "cycle" the tank, and make sure it has leveled off as far as water quality before introducing fish.

Everything in the tank, has a "best" Ph for it's survival...keep this in mind when selecting different fish, and plants. 7.0 is friendly for most freshwater fish and plants for a steady enviroment.

Plants or rocks will sometimes depend on the fish.....for example, cichlids tend to prefer rocks, over plants for hiding. We like plants, but threw in a couple rocks for the cichlid.

We started, freshwater, with 2 Zebra Danios and 2 Rainbow Tetras....easy, and hardy fish. We added a Brichardi and a Gourami later as things stayed cool. Recently we added a Upside Down Catfish, 100% nocturnal for evening cleanups, and he seems to do fine so far. We have a 25 gallon tank, and thats about all the fish that it will support, safely IMO and from information gathered. MAYBE 1 more, but it's fine as is. Our crazy hippy fish man, suggests 1 fish for every 5 gallons.

We naturally grew snails from the plants that we bought, and they grow and die, and have never become a problem. They really clean the crap out of the tank.

I wipe the 3 sides down every couple days, never clean the back, test the water every few days....and do 25-35% water changes every month. The maint, is quick an easy, and lets you be a "god" to your fish : - )

We really got into it also Ron, so I see your enthusiasm, as the wife and I are planning a 55+ one for another location in the house. Sorry for the blurry pic, as I hastily took it.

organ

Let the tank cycle for a few weeks before adding fish. You need the good crap eating bacteria to build up in your tank.

Buy a bottle of chlorine remover which you'll need for your weekly 20% water change.

Buy a heater and a gravel vacuum to suck up all the crap that are stuck under your gravel.

If you're using a filter like the ones from Aquaclear, you won't need an air pump. Take off the lid for the filter for better oxygen exchange.

Pick your fish before your gravel. You want to look for natural looking gravel that will make your fish's colors stand out.

Incondescent lighting is superior to normal light bulbs.

I know a few people recommended algae eaters but I wouldn't use them. They get large, agressive and produce a lot of ****. That's too much load for your bio system. Just buy an algae scraper and scrape off the algae from the glass when you're doing your weekly cleaning. I let the algae grow in many parts of the tank for a more natural look. It will also keep the PH level stable.

10gal is pretty tight. You can't keep too many fish in there. In my 10gal I have a pair of Angel fish and 4 gold tetras. They're all about 3 years old and the angels are always breeding. There are plenty of fish you can put in a 10 gal. Find the ones you like on www.aquariacentral.com Make sure you pick species that get along. Some fish need to be kept in shoals to thrive.

Just like our audio hobby, fish keeping can be very addictive. I started with a 5 gal tank 12 years ago and now I have a 10 gal with two angels and 4 gold tetras, a 15 gal with a black piranha, and a big 50 gal with a red belly piranha. I bet that in a year from now you'll have a huge tank:D.

Maurice

Ron-P

All excellent info, thanks for the responses.

Now that we both (wife and I) are getting into this. I may actually upgrade to a bigger tank before getting started. The stand I bought can handle up to a 35 gallon tank so I may just buy the bigger tank and start off slow adding a few fish a week. The bigger tank will allow for a few more fish and some bigger decor over the 10 gallon.

Thanks again for all the responses, tips and suggestions.

organ

BEAUTIFUL set up Doro! When my brother's home, I'll borrow his camera and take pics of my tanks.

Just read that you do water changes every other month. Never heard anyone do it before. Is your water testing OK for nitrate/nitrite/amonia, etc?

Ron,
Forgot to mention this. After a few weeks when your water is god and fish are doing great, stop using the charcoal in your filter and add another sponge.

Maurice

organ

Don't forget to show us pics:). If you're planning to add fish weekly, buy the most peaceful fish first and add larger fish later on because some fish can become very territorial.

Maurice

Demiurge

Originally posted by Ron-P
All excellent info, thanks for the responses.

Now that we both (wife and I) are getting into this. I may actually upgrade to a bigger tank before getting started. The stand I bought can handle up to a 35 gallon tank so I may just buy the bigger tank and start off slow adding a few fish a week. The bigger tank will allow for a few more fish and some bigger decor over the 10 gallon.

Thanks again for all the responses, tips and suggestions.

Walmart is a good place to buy bigger tanks. Unless money isn't a problem...don't get suckered into buying a $1,000 aquarium tank, or more.

dorokusai

Organ - Ya, everything has really turned out very nicely so far. Levels are all great. I guess it could be once a month actually, we went a whole month, no fish, just plants when it was being cycled....so I think that threw me off. Then another month with just the Danios and Tetras....recently since the other fish are now present, it will be once a month due to the load.

My fish man gave me a tip for cleaning...in that if you wipe down the sides, and within a day or two, you have algae or growth on them...time to clean. We change the filter every other month, opposite the water change. I have gotten the Brichardi to eat tubifex worms from my hand, he/she is real social...but also dominates the tank. God forbid you try and get in the rocks, that's off limits, lol.

I just remove all the plants and rocks(2), and use a gravel sucker to cover the whole bottom....it's over and ready for setup again, in like 10 minutes. I finally got the hang of that pump well...blah blah, you know all that.

I would love to see some pics, and thanks for the compliment

organ

Wow thanks for the tip. I dind't know about that algae thing. So it looks like my water is great.

It's awesome that you got your fish to eat off your hands. It takes a lot of patience to have your fish trust you that much. I remember when I used to feed my black piranha frozen blood worms when he was the size of a dime about 5 years ago. Now he's about 4.5" long, jet black and aggressive as hell. I don't even flip the cover to feed him anymore. I have to put the food through a little opening between the cover and filter. Once when I opened te lid, he came right to the top to take the goldfish and made big splash. Almost gave me a heart attack. I get very nervous when I have to stick my hand in the tank to clean it.

Have you tried adding more tetras? This should get them to shoal better. I hear you need a min of 6. See if you can pick up some "glow light tetras". Their colour against a dark bacgrond is awesome. I once had them with the the gold and cardinal tetras. It was a beautiful sight to see different species of tetras shoal together.

That funny with your Brichardi and his rocks LOL. It's so funny to see a fish get pissed as hell because you're coming too close to his rocks:D.

I should have the camera tomorrow.

Maurice

pixiedave

african chiclids!

stevew14

Another vote for Africans! I have mostly peacocks which are some of the less agressive Africans, their colors are almost as stunning as salt water! When I do my water changes, they swim by my hands and I am actually able to "pet them" almost like a cat or dog. What an awesome feeling. The only problwem is, after twenty years of keeping fish, and setting up and tearing down all sorts of tanks, I think I am really getting to the final burn out stage. I just don't have the drive to keep up with all the maintenace anymore. I used to do water changes every 1 to 2 weeks on six tanks that I had running. It took me at least four hours. I really didn't mind for a long time but slowly, I started letting them go further between changes and then, taking down a tank, and then another and so on. Now I have a 75 and a 30 remaining and I'm close to letting the 30 go. I think with just the one, I'll be OK. I still enjoy watching them sometimes, but not like I used to. I used to sit and stare at the tank for hours. Now I spend more time enjoying the electronic media.

Whoever said that it is habit forming was right though, If you think A/V is addictive, just wait. I agree, you'll soon be wanting bigger, more extravagent setups. Best of luck and just search for info, there are tons of informative sites that you can benefit from on the internet.

pixiedave

heres my 90 gaalon african tank
http://www.teapottraveler.com/DSC00017.JPG
Africans have the most personality, I too have been taring down tanks, a 10,20 and 30 gallon wich leaves a 40,55,and the 90 gallon.

Ron-P

Wow, tons of good info here.

stop using the charcoal in your filter and add another sponge

Why so? Does the charcoal harm?

Walmart is a good place to buy bigger tanks. Unless money isn't a problem...don't get suckered into buying a $1,000 aquarium tank, or more.

I'll check there. My local pet shop has a 29 gallon for $49. Not too bad so depending on wallmarts I'll most likely pick that one up. I went by and looked at it, damn 30 gallons is a big tank compared to my 10.

I won't have more than one tank once the gold fish kick the bucket. I just don't have the room in the beach house for more than that. The gold fish will stay in the kitchen and the new tank will go in the living room.

Demiurge

Originally posted by Ron-P
Wow, tons of good info here.


Why so? Does the charcoal harm?


I'll check there. My local pet shop has a 29 gallon for $49. Not too bad so depending on wallmarts I'll most likely pick that one up. I went by and looked at it, damn 30 gallons is a big tank compared to my 10.

I won't have more than one tank once the gold fish kick the bucket. I just don't have the room in the beach house for more than that. The gold fish will stay in the kitchen and the new tank will go in the living room.

I'm not sure what he means by don't use charcoal. The filter cartridges you buy for your filter has charcoal in it, but I always just keep buying those. I'm sure there is wisdom in what he's saying, but I've had the same fish for 3 years and haven't had a problem with the charcoal filter cartridges.

As far as walmart...whats cool about them is you usually get a filter, hood, lights, and the tank all in one. That usually isn't the case at the pet stores, but sometimes it is.

You'll also need a lage siphon hose if you get the 30g and a good size net.

As far as gravel is concerned I prefer a lighter color. The crap doesn't show on the lighter stuff...but that's personal preference as well. If you get black gravel you can see all the fish poo and any uneaten food debris real easily.

While at Walmart pick up a 5 gallon white bucket. It will come in handy for your partial water changes. A timer also helps...as fish want about 12 hours of light and 12 of darkness. It's a pain in the **** having to remember to turn the light on and off. So getting a cheap ole timer like you'd use for christmas lights works wonders.

Also depending on the fish you get we can help you with the type of food.

organ

Originally posted by Ron-P
Why so? Does the charcoal harm?

The charcoal is a waste of money of you keep your tank in good condition. The charcoal will only work for about a week before it starts to leak toxins back into the tank. When the charcoal can't absorb anymore stuff, it starts to let them back out into the tank slowly.

Charcoal absorbs toxins and other unwanted crap which is good when you first start a tank because your bio system is not maxed yet. Once you get good bacteria and some algae growing in there, they'll be doing the work charcoal normally does. So there's no need for it anymore. If you're planning to use real plants, charcoal is a no no because it will take away nutrients and other stuff the plants need.

Ron-P

Good deal, thanks Demiurge.

As far as walmart...whats cool about them is you usually get a filter, hood, lights, and the tank all in one. That usually isn't the case at the pet stores, but sometimes it is.

you are correct. The $49 tank is just that, the tank. There is a Walmart by my office I plan to hit up a lunch today, right next to an In-n-Out burger joint .

The gravel we use now is peanut size and is a medium to light brown mixture.

When I get to the actual 'buying the fish stage' I'll consult you guys again. I figure between 3 to 4 weeks and I should be ready.

Demiurge

Originally posted by organ
The charcoal is a waste of money of you keep your tank in good condition. The charcoal will only work for about a week before it starts to leak toxins back into the tank. When the charcoal can't absorb anymore stuff, it starts to let them back out into the tank slowly.

Charcoal absorbs toxins and other unwanted crap which is good when you first start a tank because your bio system is not maxed yet. Once you get good bacteria and some algae growing in there, they'll be doing the work charcoal normally does. So there's no need for it anymore. If you're planning to use real plants, charcoal is a no no because it will take away nutrients and other stuff the plants need.

I still use charcoal with live plants.

He should still get the foam inserts made for his filter though.

organ

Originally posted by Demiurge
I'm not sure what he means by don't use charcoal. The filter cartridges you buy for your filter has charcoal in it, but I always just keep buying those. I'm sure there is wisdom in what he's saying, but I've had the same fish for 3 years and haven't had a problem with the charcoal filter cartridges.

Check my post above. Basically, once the tank is running the way it's supposed to, your good bacteria and algae will take over the charcoal's job. There was a very long discussion about this in www.aquariacentral.com You can do a search there. I've inserted another sponge in the charcoal's space to promote more bacterial growth.

I agree with you about the foam. It's a must and the more the better. Have you tried removing your charcoal? Your plants would love that

Maurice