Mass Loading "Ultimate Foundations" Stands

Hermitism

And so it begins...

New in box/old stock UF30 stands ✔
50 pounds play sand ✔
50 pounds lead shot ✔
Cardboard/plastic for floor ✔
Used toilet paper rolls ✔
Radiator funnel ✔
Various sized plastic cups ✔
Small Bucket ✔
Painter's tape ✔
Vibrating device ✔
Scrap wood ✔
Rubber gloves ✔
(It took me longer to figure out how to make a check mark than it did to type this)

Part 1:

If you want to know how to fill speaker stands, msg made a great thread on the subject with pictures and video. I can't beat that, but I'm a lot cooler than he is, so if you want to know how the "cool crowd" fills their stands, I'm your guy!



First, I'm reminded of a test question I had in elementary school. Which weighs more, fifty pounds of sand, fifty pounds of lead, or fifty pounds of feathers? Think about it.



The size of a 50 pound bag of sand compared to the size of two 25 pound bags of lead speaks for itself. Those are flat bags of shot and a heaping bag of sand that the camera angle doesn't pick up!

note: First thing I did before bringing the sand into the house was to put the sand bag into a garbage bag to prevent any sand from getting on the floor when bringing it inside. Bag after bag at Home Depot had small punctures and leaking sand. Also there is a small flap at the top of the bag that can hold loose sand from other leaking bags.



The installation instructions have no written words, it uses pictures only. So I got out my trusted Egyptian hieroglyphs decoder book and found that the picture above, for example, means "install bolt, don't tighten".

Both ends of the columns are vented for filling. The manufacturer's website specifically says "Pillars can be filled with shot for added mass".



I expected one end to be closed and the other to be completely open with a welded bar in the center separating the cylinder containing the bolt receiver. Not so much. It looks like the sheet metal inside the vent holes is meant to collapse over the holes when on the bottom of the stands when filled, sealing off the vents preventing leakage.



Fast forward...I got the stands put together. Used blue Loctite on the bottom bolts attaching pillars to base. (Thanks Scott)

The shot arrived shortly ago. A day late. I'm going to wait until tomorrow night to fill the stands, allowing the shot to warm up. Putting ice cold lead in a 72 degree steel tube and sealing it up might (probably not) cause condensation. Since I'm going to all this trouble, waiting one more day isn't a big deal. Plus I've got some other things I need to do tonight. That's why I'm doing this indoors, instead of outside, the temperature change possibly creating moisture for the sand to absorb. But I've got all the stuff I need now from the garage and grabbed a vibrator massager from the dungeon. A vibrating finishing sander without the sandpaper would also work to vibrate and pack down the fill and work the fine sand into the open spaces between the round shot. I plan on premixing the sand/shot in the bucket and then vibrating the columns. Also, I recommend getting some scrap wood and placing the stands on the wood before filling. These carpet spikes are like daggers and once weighted, they'll poke holes through your carpet. Anyone with short pile carpet may see the holes left by the stands.







By the way, I welcome constructive criticism. When finished, if anyone would have done it differently, please feel free to comment. You guys are never shy about pointing out someone's wrongdoings.

When doing research on stands, I found this little gem: http://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/146630/lsim-703s-and-sanus-ultimates/p1 I got some good chuckles out of that one!

xschop

I just want to know if you get each 50lb in each 5lb bucket so to say.

msg

Coming together!
Plan sounds pretty solid so far. The only thing I have to offer is on the pre-mixing of the sand and shot.

Given the difference in densities, if pre-mixing, it may be possible that the lead shot settles out from the drop down the column and subsequent vibration. Not positive this will happen, but the possibility just occurred to me thinking back on something I was taught for concrete testing years ago. Over-working concrete with a vibrator to get it to flow into place in forms and footings, or placing it by pouring from height can cause the aggregate to settle out - drop to the bottom. This could be a similar situation, so, personally, I'd work the sand and shot in separately, alternating volume measured lifts. Example, 1 cup sand followed by one cup of shot, alternating until filled (per F1nut recommendation of manageable quantities), Keep track of the order and how many lifts of each used, so you can replicate it for each column. This could be as simple as ✅ marks in columns. On paper.

Exciting project! Looking forward to seeing how it goes and hearing your impressions when you're done.

pkquat

I'm not sure of the ratio of shot to sand. If its mostly shot the sand will fill the small voids. Depending on the vibrations and the volume at the time the shot could rise instead as the fines drop out and form a more compact base.

For speaker stands or other items requiring a dampened base there is "Kinetic Sand", Beach Sand, Play Sand, Magic Sand, etc. It feels wet, is pack-able, and never dries out. Its like Play-doh and sand mixed together. Once it is packed I doubt it will settle.

I believe the real stuff is hygroscopic and uses a specific chemical. You can make something similar with corn starch, dish soap, and tea tree oil, but I think this can dry out.

EndersShadow

I will start by saying your overkilling this, but I like overkill.

I filled my 22" stands with just sand alone, and I can tell you that they are now close to 25lbs a pop if not more. If I added shot they would be darn near impossible to carry. I'm sure @erniejade had fun loading them into his car to hold for me in Chicago for a couple weeks...

That said, you've got the stuff, use it. Also dont fill it to the top 100%. Leave a bit of room just not a ton.

Then sell your dumbells as you can use these instead for a better workout.

Hermitism

xschop wrote: »

I just want to know if you get each 50lb in each 5lb bucket so to say.

I can see where you're going with this, but I wasn't going to mix 100 pounds of fill at once. Just a comfortable bucket weight that doesn't send me to the doctor to turn my head and cough.

msg wrote: »

1 cup sand followed by one cup of shot, alternating until filled (per F1nut recommendation of manageable quantities), Keep track of the order and how many lifts of each used, so you can replicate it for each column.

You want me to make a candy cane!

pkquat wrote: »

I'm not sure of the ratio of shot to sand. If its mostly shot the sand will fill the small voids. Depending on the vibrations and the volume at the time the shot could rise instead as the fines drop out and form a more compact base.

For speaker stands or other items requiring a dampened base there is "Kinetic Sand", Beach Sand, Play Sand, Magic Sand, etc. It feels wet, is pack-able, and never dries out. Its like Play-doh and sand mixed together. Once it is packed I doubt it will settle.

I believe the real stuff is hygroscopic and uses a specific chemical. You can make something similar with corn starch, dish soap, and tea tree oil, but I think this can dry out.

You had me at "hygroscopic"!

EndersShadow wrote: »

I will start by saying your overkilling this, but I like overkill.

I filled my 22" stands with just sand alone, and I can tell you that they are now close to 25lbs a pop if not more. If I added shot they would be darn near impossible to carry. I'm sure @erniejade had fun loading them into his car to hold for me in Chicago for a couple weeks...

That said, you've got the stuff, use it. Also don't fill it to the top 100%. Leave a bit of room just not a ton.

I was planning on maybe five parts shot to one part sand which would be enough to fill any space between the shot but keep all the shot in the bottom third of the columns to keep them bottom heavy. Then pure sand for the remaining 2/3 of the columns. I'm using # 10 shot, which I think is less than 2mm, so there won't be a lot of space between the shot to fill. I was surprised at how sturdy and stable these are without fill. To be honest, if the stands had arrived before I had ordered shot, I may have "cheaped out" and only ordered one bag, but glad it worked out the way it did because I'm sure I'll own these and the 703's on top for the rest of my life. For the deals I got on the speakers and stands, I had no excuse to skimp on all the thrills & cost of building these. Even though they are sturdy without fill, if you take your fingertip and flick the columns as hard as you can without yelling obscenities, they ring for a full five seconds. So filling them with at least sand should be a must. Skip introduced me to Dynamat, and I've heard first hand how dampening can yield positive results.

Hermitism

EndersShadow wrote: »

I filled my 22" stands with...

I came across your thread the other day where you bought your UF stands and posted a picture when they arrived. I was stunned that they shipped those to you fully assembled. I can't believe they didn't take them apart before boxing them. Six bolts per stand. Biggest box ever!

EndersShadow

Hermitism wrote: »

I was planning on maybe five parts shot to one part sand which would be enough to fill any space between the shot but keep all the shot in the bottom third of the columns to keep them bottom heavy. Then pure sand for the remaining 2/3 of the columns. I'm using # 10 shot, which I think is less than 2mm, so there won't be a lot of space between the shot to fill. I was surprised at how sturdy and stable these are without fill. To be honest, if the stands had arrived before I had ordered shot, I may have "cheaped out" and only ordered one bag.......Even though they are sturdy without fill, if you take your fingertip and flick the columns as hard as you can without yelling obscenities, they ring for a full five seconds. So filling them with at least sand should be a must. Skip introduced me to Dynamat, and I've heard first hand how dampening can yield positive results.

Yup, with just sand, there is no ringing at all with mine and I also understand how nice Dynamat is when used for that purpose.

Hermitism wrote: »

I'm sure I'll own these and the 703's on top for the rest of my life.

Hermitism wrote: »

I came across your thread the other day where you bought your UF stands and posted a picture when they arrived. I was stunned that they shipped those to you fully assembled. I can't believe they didn't take them apart before boxing them. Six bolts per stand. Biggest box ever!

Your not the only one that was shocked when they arrived assembled .

My buddy is using those stands at his shop for his vintage speakers like Advents, Polk, Boston Acoustic, RTR's, etc with great success. For your normal old school speakers in the Polk Monitor 10 size they work great to get them off the floor to listen to. I gave him what my bottom dollar price is on them should one of his customers want to buy them, but I'm content to just let them sit at his shop long term until/if I ever need them.

Hermitism

EndersShadow wrote: »

Seriously, I know most of you guys just use the 703's as surround speakers, but I think they are the bee's knees for music. I wasn't as impressed for HT, they weren't as bright as the Rti8's which I thought excelled for HT purposes. But once I put the stands together, I had to give them a try unfilled for a few songs and the 703's brightened up having them at ear level instead of sitting on the floor with an upward tilt. What a difference 30 inches makes.




Said no girl to me ever!

I think I may not have had enough upward tilt on the 706c when I had it on the shelf.

EndersShadow

Hermitism wrote: »

Seriously, I know most of you guys just use the 703's as surround speakers, but I think they are the bee's knees for music. I wasn't as impressed for HT, they weren't as bright as the Rti8's which I thought excelled for HT purposes. But once I put the stands together, I had to give them a try unfilled for a few songs and the 703's brightened up having them at ear level instead of sitting on the floor with an upward tilt.

I know quite a few using them as mains actually, so your not alone there. That said since the Adoram and Friends and Family deals have been frequent, I'm sure some folks hold off on ordering the 703's at their new price, and then buy 2 705 or 707's at their discounted price instead.

Hermitism

It's lunchtime so I was doing a little poking around with a paperclip. What I thought were fill slots are sealed. The bolt hole is the fill hole. I now see why Jesse drilled out the wings. So once the bolts are installed at the base end, they really are sealed tight for leakage. They also have pills for that.

EndersShadow

Hermitism wrote: »

It's lunchtime so I was doing a little poking around with a paperclip. What I thought were fill slots are sealed. The bolt hole is the fill hole. I now see why Jesse drilled out the wings. So once the bolts are installed at the base end, they really are sealed tight for leakage. They also have pills for that.

Dont think they are sealed. I was able to get sand that fell between the two down into the hole. I think they still feed into the same hole but I could be wrong....

xschop

Early morning sleepy sarcasm on my part. So basically lead shot for as much volume as possible and sand to fill all the interstitial voids thereafter is your goal. Depending on factory welder (Some are more thorough than others) is the unknown.

Hermitism

EndersShadow wrote: »

Dont think they are sealed. I was able to get sand that fell between the two down into the hole. I think they still feed into the same hole but I could be wrong....

You are correct. I took a long lunch. How about Plan B? Simply removing the cylinder end cap with needle-nose pliers, filling the tube, then reattaching the end cap. Tightening the top plate bolt is what creates the tention on the end cap, keeping it in place, no welding. I'm sure once you have installed the top plate tightly, those end caps aren't going to come out nearly as easy. So this might not work for anyone that buys a set used. I'll see how difficult it is to reinstall before I try it again, but it sure was easy to remove.

F1nut

I didn't see how that end cap would come off, my hat is off to you.

msg

Interesting - that's just like a bigger version of the star nut used for tensioning headsets on threadless bike forks.

Hermitism

F1nut wrote: »

I didn't see how that end cap would come off, my hat is off to you.

They don't all come off as easy. I took a chance with one that was being difficult and took a small screw driver and rubber mallet. stuck the screw driver threw the fill slot and tapped down to turn the end cap sideways in the tube, then pulled it out with pliers. Do it at your own risk, if it hadn't turned sideways like I wanted, I would have just driven it further down the tube. Got one stand finished, but I've got some work to do from taking a long lunch, so the other stand will have to wait. If I have difficulty removing the end caps on the second stand, I'll just fill them the hard way. I premixed 25 pounds of lead with 5 scoops of sand. I'll have to look what size scoop it was. It came with a Roundup Weed Killer jug. The cancer causing stuff. After filling three columns with the mix, it filled a little more than 3/4 of the columns of a 30" stand. I never thought it would go that far. Putting the end caps back on isn't too difficult but you have to be careful to get them level. I kept trying to adjust one and drove it down an extra 1/4". No big deal, the bolts are plenty long enough.

DSkip wrote: »

F1nut wrote: »

I didn't see how that end cap would come off, my hat is off to you.

Maybe your hat, but not your cap.

What about his hood?



Don't mess with The Great Polkholio!
Not to be confused with The Great Cornholio.

EndersShadow

DSkip wrote: »

I don't want to know how much time you spent doing that.

See “long lunch”

Hermitism

I did it during avatargate. It was my favorite one.

msg

Hermitism wrote: »

avatargate.

Ha!

Hermitism

I've always enjoyed doing audio diy jobs, but this is one job I'm glad to have in my rear view. Glad I did it, but glad it's over. I was wrong about a few things before loading these...

1. I intended to keep the lead in the bottom parts of the tubes and only mixing minimal sand to keep them bottom heavy. When mixing, once I got the right consistency it probably was close to a 50/50 mix which filled 3/4 of the column's height. Then topped them off with straight sand.

2. The vibrator idea was a bust. It just didn't transfer the vibration into the stands like I thought. It really didn't do much. I ended up putting a couple strips of painters tape on the columns and light tapping them with a rubber mallet five or six times after each cup of fill added.

3. I was wrong about the end caps collapsing onto the fill slots sealing them after filled. There's not enough weight to collapse those thick end caps, so they stay open. This was probably extra labor for nothing, but I sealed off the fill slots. I can't think of a reason I'd ever remove the base. But one day I may need to remove the top plate which could have some sand stuck to the bottom side if I had ever sat the stands on their sides to move from one house to another, or to adjust the carpet spikes, which would allow sand into the top cavity. If I ever scuff the front foot with a shoe or vacuum and decide to rotate the stand to move the scuffed foot to the rear, I'd have to remove and re-position the top plate. So at least I won't have to worry about getting a little sand on the carpet.



I know these are discontinued stands, but a lot of people still keep an eye out for these, so here are a couple tips:

Don't over tighten the top bolts. There are cork gaskets on the underside of the top plate and over tightening may make the tubes cut into the cork.



Remove the end caps of the columns at your own risk and wear safety glasses if you do. You may have to apply a fair amount of force. I ended up using the fill slots on the second stand just to be safe and not break something. It sure took a lot longer. I had mixed a small amount of lead/sand and didn't like how it was flowing into the slots. The sand didn't feel wet, but thought I'd do some experimenting. I read how Jesse had cooked sand in the oven to dry it out. I put some on a cookie sheet for 45 minutes at 350 degrees, let cool to room temperature and mixed it with shot and it did make a difference in filling faster. It also created a small amount of dust while filling, like smoke from a cigarette. So if your sand doesn't have a little dust when filling, it has a little moisture in it. Maybe not enough to cause problems in a steel tube, but I baked six cookie sheets worth of sand in the middle of the night last night. Forgot to take a picture, but I wish they had been cookies. I propped up the vacuum hose next to the funnel to catch any dust since I was doing this indoors.

Do yourself a favor and jack up the stands when you are working on them to save your back.

The rubber nubs. There is a trick to installing them. You can't push them into the holes and you can't screw them into the holes because the holes are too small or closed due to the powder coat finish. I had a couple holes completely closed that needed to be poked. Then I took the speaker studs (mini spikes) and had to re-tap the holes. A couple of the holes almost broke the allen wrench when **** in the studs. Make a turn, back it off, make a turn, back it off. Then screw the rubber pads into the hole like a bolt, which also allows you to make small leveling adjustments now that they are threaded.



The part that looks torn on the end is just where you have to tear them off of the wheel from the mold (G)



I ended up using 50 pounds of lead and 20 pounds of sand. Forgot to weigh the stands beforehand, but I'd guess each stand weighs between 50 and 55 pounds. I can't speak to the sonic benefits, but they should hold up to a drunkard or a F2 Category Tornado.

Thanks to Jesse for giving me a list of stands to shop for and suggesting mass loading them, msg for giving me some tips beforehand, and pkquat for teaching me a new word (that's usually Mark's job).

Peace out yo

Hermitism

Hermitism wrote: »

A couple of the holes almost broke the allen wrench when **** in the studs.

Wow.

A couple of the holes almost broke the allen wrench when s c r e w i n g in the studs.

txcoastal1

Hermitism wrote: »

Hermitism wrote: »

A couple of the holes almost broke the allen wrench when **** in the studs.

Wow.

A couple of the holes almost broke the allen wrench when s c r e w i n g in the studs.

Now go wash your mouth out with soap Hermit

msg

Great write-up, man. Clear and engaging with the photos, insightful tips, and deadpan laughs mixed in.

I agree on the tediousness of this project. I forgot how glad I was when it was overwith as well, but glad to have done it.

Hermitism

msg wrote: »

Great write-up, man. Clear and engaging with the photos, insightful tips, and deadpan laughs mixed in.

I agree on the tediousness of this project. I forgot how glad I was when it was overwith as well, but glad to have done it.

Thanks man, you're my only fan. I really didn't enjoy this job. Somehow I did it with no mess or spills. Had a little sand on the base when finished and five pieces of shot on the plastic, but I had taken the box the stands came in and opened it up onto the floor and reused the plastic from the packaging as well. This is definitely an outdoor summertime job. Another tip if doing this indoors, take a terrycloth shower towel and put it underneath the stands, if you drop some shot, it won't bounce and roll away. Good luck cleaning the towel.

TNTsTunes

Nice work.