SPDIF v Coaxial for SACD?

sponger

Long story, but I'm skipping the HDMI for audio output from the Sony player. Also, for the record, the player is not the problem. The 3312CI is a buggy AVR, but I've gotten used to that. Not interested in 5.1 anyway since it's a 2.0 arrangement.

The Sony manual doesn't say anything about using optical / coax for SACD. But, it does appear to work, especially since it's not 5.1 playback. So far, the S15s in stereo have made my SACDs sound pretty great. Miles Davis' trumpet solos really shine through these speakers. Bass violin (aka "double bass") is fast and punchy.

I did some searching to see what others say about optical / coax SACD. Lots of differing opinions like HDMI and analog being the only two "legal" aka "licensed" methods of SACD output connections. Another person said that between SPDIF and Coax, the latter is the better option.

The Sony has both optical and coax, so any opinions on which is supposedly better for SACD is much appreciated. I'd go with the Denon DACs over the Sony's, so analog is not something I'm considering. That is unless I should consider it.

Also, if anyone has heard anything about SACD being licensed only for specific connection types, that would be interesting as well. Thanks in advance.

Nightfall

DSD can't be sent over either of those. HDMI if your DAC can decode DSD or analog are your options I believe.

sponger

If it's working, and the video from the Sony displays "DSD 2 Channel," is the player down mixing the signal?

Upstatemax

As Nightfall said, DSD can’t be sent over those connections.

IIRC, for it to be sent over one of those connections it HAS to be converted from DSD to PCM in the player first.

If you want the Denon to receive and decode the DSD signal, you’re going to have to use HDMI.

sponger

OK. Thanks. Got confused there since the screen was still telling me DSD. You guys have confirmed that it's impossible. Not surprised. But I suppose if my ears didn't hear the difference, then it really doesn't matter, lol.

pitdogg2

They only other none hdmi between Denon products was the older Denon Link. It was an RJ45 connector between older Denon uni players and Denon receiver. I believe the 4th generation Denon link was in fact a coax type of RCA connector. Yes between my Denon 3805 and Denon 3910 Denonlink was a superior connection as it kept everything in the digital realm. Shortly after that they (Sony) allowed HDMI to carry the signal and yes it was much more in use. I agree with others here that older coax/SPDIF was never in play. That being said IF and this is big IF your receiver must have a way to decide DSD if it don't well it will not happen.

sponger

Very interesting to read about another case of patents / territorialism being the only barrier to entry as opposed to manufacturing cost benefit considerations. Another example that comes to mind is Sony preventing DVD-CDs from becoming commonplace. At least that was my understanding of it.

Nightfall

There are ways around it. It requires either the very original Playstation 3 or an Oppo player. Rip the DSD files off the SACD with either of those then you can do whatever you want with the files. There are DACs that can play DSD files via SPDIF up to DSD 64, it's just a copy protection thing doing it directly from the disc.

tonyb

sponger wrote: »

Long story, but I'm skipping the HDMI for audio output from the Sony player. Also, for the record, the player is not the problem. The 3312CI is a buggy AVR, but I've gotten used to that. Not interested in 5.1 anyway since it's a 2.0 arrangement.

The Sony manual doesn't say anything about using optical / coax for SACD. But, it does appear to work, especially since it's not 5.1 playback. So far, the S15s in stereo have made my SACDs sound pretty great. Miles Davis' trumpet solos really shine through these speakers. Bass violin (aka "double bass") is fast and punchy.

I did some searching to see what others say about optical / coax SACD. Lots of differing opinions like HDMI and analog being the only two "legal" aka "licensed" methods of SACD output connections. Another person said that between SPDIF and Coax, the latter is the better option.

The Sony has both optical and coax, so any opinions on which is supposedly better for SACD is much appreciated. I'd go with the Denon DACs over the Sony's, so analog is not something I'm considering. That is unless I should consider it.

Also, if anyone has heard anything about SACD being licensed only for specific connection types, that would be interesting as well. Thanks in advance.

Depending on which Sony player you have, I'd consider using the analog outputs. A good sacd player is going to have better dacs and overall better build quality than a receiver.

sponger

What makes me iffy about the Sony's DACs is that Sony didn't advertise them at all in any form. I chose between this and the Panasonic flagship at the time, the Panasonic clearly touting its 32bit analog connections as a major selling point. So I figured Sony would do the same if the analogs were worth touting, and so that's why they didn't. Also, the 790 is considerably cheaper than other SACD players, and I just couldn't see how that was possible without cutting corners with like say the DACs.

But, it doesn't hurt to try. I was expecting the forum's usual suspects to immediately balk at cheapo Sony DACs when compared to the AKCs in the Denon. Since that turned out not to be the case, then I guess why not. The only risk I suppose is the blow to my ego from not hearing the difference either way.

headrott

If you have a high quality DAC that can accept a RJ45 input, I would go that route. If you have a Denon (or another brand) "universal" player, what I did with my DVD-5910 is tap the DSD outputs on the circuit board and install an RJ45 output jack sending the DSD signal(s) to my self made DAC (using the Twisted Pear Buffallo II DAC board and some self made tube output analog boards located here):http://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/119264/fully-balanced-buffalo-ii-dac-with-tube-i-zator-tube-output

This is the best sounding DSD I have personally heard and the way I recommend going for DSD.

sponger

I took a look at those pics and was floored by all the tubes and giant capacitors jumping out at me. That must've been a fun project. I'm guessing it's 32/384 with S/N of something crazy. Those are really the only specs I look at.

I did the analogs from the Sony and it wasn't disappointing.

I'm guessing you have a background in electrical engineering? Any good books you'd recommend for someone with no electronics background who might consider projects like the one you undertook?

tonyb

sponger wrote: »

I took a look at those pics and was floored by all the tubes and giant capacitors jumping out at me. That must've been a fun project. I'm guessing it's 32/384 with S/N of something crazy. Those are really the only specs I look at.

I did the analogs from the Sony and it wasn't disappointing.

I'm guessing you have a background in electrical engineering? Any good books you'd recommend for someone with no electronics background who might consider projects like the one you undertook?

I think projects like that require a certain skill level. Best to probably practice on a kit that's easier if you have no experience. Just a thought....

SCompRacer

Lessons In Electric Circuits by Tony R. Kuphaldt. No charge, free, and he is a smart guy. Start with fundamentals, Vol 1 & 2, DC and AC.

http://www.ibiblio.org/kuphaldt/electricCircuits/

Long live DIY.

Like Tony said, start easy, not something that can kill you with high current.

headrott

No, no electrical engineering background on my part. Total DIY with help from others with knowledge. The DAC was my first DIY project I did. But, I did have a fair amount of soldering/desoldering and alteration(s) to components before doing this project.

I have not read the online "book" that Rich posted above, but Rich has more experience than I do in DIY and would trust his recommendation for sure. Get into DIY (within reason) and gain your knowledge and understanding. It's fun to alter and/or create your own electronic components.

SCompRacer

The extent of my engineering background was when I had a Lionel train as a kid.

I figured for a start, it is good to know about what you are dealing with. We have AC converted to DC in our projects. Know about that and you should respect what can tickle you, tingle you and what can kill you.

lightman1

SCompRacer wrote: »

and what can kill you.

I wake up and heed these five words. If it works out.. I get to say them again the next day.

sponger

Great advice. I bookmarked that link from SCompRacer.

Viking64

My Sony SACD player doesn't output ANY SACD audio via the optic output jack whatsoever. This was a blessing in disguise as it led me to bypass the pre in my 1999 Yamaha HT integrated and send analog directly to my "integrated" power amp. I followed suit on my Yamaha Blu-Ray player with even better DAC's and the improvement was even more noticeable.

pitdogg2

lightman1 wrote: »

SCompRacer wrote: »

and what can kill you.

I wake up and heed these five words. If it works out.. I get to say them again the next day.

On a grand scale no doubt. They'll just find your smoking boots....

txcoastal1

lightman1 wrote: »

SCompRacer wrote: »

and what can kill you.

I wake up and heed these five words. If it works out.. I get to say them again the next day.