2.3TL and 1.2TL updates

pkquat

I figured I would carry over the updates from the FS thread below to a new one.

http://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/178974/modded-2-3tls-w-1000-va-dreadnaught-and-custom-mit-shotgun-cables/p2

My friend is doing an all out remodeling project so I got my carpet sliders back for a day before Thanksgiving. I decided to move the 1.2's in place first since once the 2.3's are in place they will be there for a while, the SDA cable for my 1C's was already there, and the less shuffling of speakers around the better.

The highs of the 1.2's are better than I thought, but a bar stool height is a little better as mentioned in the other thread. The very low bass is heaven compared to the 1C's, although as others have mentioned, and I have to agree, in stock form it seams a little thick, and in some cases not so tight. These SL3000's sound better than the ones in my 11TL's. I really only got a few hours of critical listening, and 1 day of enjoying the power and volume while walking around busy with other things.

I hope to be listening to the 2.3's by Christmas.

xschop

What do you attribute the "not so tight" bass response to in your circumstance?

pkquat

I am not sure of the specific cause. It could be just the size and it is stock. I played a little with the distance from the wall and while that did affect the bass volume and response in some cases it still sounded a little mushy. These look in amazing shape and appear to still be well sealed as best I can tell. Adding BH5 like people talk about may solve the issue. I don't recall if these have polyfill too. I'll be real curious once I get to hear the 2.3's.

One other major difference from the 1C's is the spacing between the stereo and dimensional drivers does widen the sound stage as expected. Some things sound a little better, but I think these need to be in a larger room. (They will eventually). I am at a slightly under 3' from the side wall and the minimum center spacing. They are blocking the corners of the TV, and the 2.3's will as well. The 1C's just fit within the space and do better in the smaller room as far as the SDA experience goes. It makes me wonder how 1C's and SRS-2's would compare and what space they really need.

pkquat wrote: »

I got my carpet sliders back for a day before Thanksgiving.

EDIT:
Before Thanksgiving I got my carpet sliders back for one day and loaned them back. I should have them back before Christmas.

dpowell

I'm assuming if you still have SL3000's in the 1.2's that you have not yet upgraded the XO's? If so, the bass you are describing sounds much like my 2.3's pre XO upgrade. Probably the old caps. Other things to look at would be spikes or putting something solid under them. Granite slabs worked great for mine.

machone

When I first got my 2.3TL's this is what I posted.

"I did some more listening last night. In their stock form I find them sluggish, muffled and veiled. They have nice mids and vocals sound good. Top and bottom end is not extended. I am writing these notes so I can come back to them as the rebuild progresses."

Then I changed the tweeters to 198's and this is what I posted.

"I swapped the tweeters to RD0198s. Right out of the box they kill the SL3000s. I did not realize how much of an impact they would have on sluggish bass."

pkquat

machone wrote: »

"I swapped the tweeters to RD0198s. Right out of the box they kill the SL3000s. I did not realize how much of an impact they would have on sluggish bass."

Strange that the tweeters would effect the bass. I am trying to process how. Oddly I have found the SL3000 tweeters decent so far. Both in my 11TL's and now in the 1.2's. The SL2500's were horrible. I have some 198's that replaced SL2500's in some M5's and M5jr's. The crossovers in the M5's have been rebuilt but still need more break in as do the tweeters. The M5jr's crossovers are still stock. The 198's are smoother and detailed, but IMO so far the SL3000 isn't bad by any means and I haven't gotten fatigued by them during the day.

I should have the carpet sliders back this weekend. I really what to hear what a finished set and further broken in set of Polks sound like.

pkquat

Well 6 months later I finally got the 2.3's in place.

For the TL;DR, I have some questions at the bottom. I think the modded 2.3TL's may still need some tweaking. A Parasound P5 Preamp (optical in), and a Parasound 2250 (250W) Amp are the major components.

Since I don't have a (good) sub I had been enjoying the stock 1.2TL's and the bass. I'll wrap up a few findings on the 1.2's. As mentioned it seams like you need to be sitting on a bar stool to enjoy them, or at least enjoy the highs to the full extent. I am not sure how a modded set would sound, but I came to wonder if I really needed to be up higher. The highs were louder, but when sitting down I think they were pretty well balanced. This needs further investigation. A month back I finally dug out the old Telarc 1812. WOW, but still think a sub is need for OMG WOW. But this could be the room, which is far from ideal. Memory could easily be wrong by now, but 10+ years ago I heard some B&W 801's in a large room, and the cannons were OMG WOW!

I should have given the 1.2TL's one more listen before putting the modded 2.3TL's in place, but that didn't happen. Both sets are about 6ft a part and the listening distance is correct. The 1.2's were about 6-7 inches from the back wall and the 2.3's are 6.75". According to the marks on the carpet, the 2.3's are in the same outside corner positions as the 1.2's were, so the width spacing is about 2" wider. No spikes on either, yet. I checked the wiring and these will except the stock SDA cable, so I decided to use the one I had in place for the 1.2's for now.

1812 was still in the CD player so that was the start. At first I thought they sounded a but muffled, and not as crisp. I think this was more a feeling the tweeters were not as "hot" as the 1.2's and who knows what the crossovers in the 1.2's are like. Then I realized on some of the louder passages all the detail, even at volume. Each instrument was clearer and individually defined. As I paid attention to the highs, it reminded me of the balance and detail of the peerless tweeters. These 0198's sounded better than the ones in my M5s2's with modded crossovers (although nothing is really broken in yet). Strings sounded amazing along with the rest of the orchestra. Cannon bass was good, but not like the 1.2's could do, and something seemed a litte off in the bass. Over all between the 1.2's and 1C's these seem the most power hungry.

I tried some more specific listening. The mono does not seem as sharp, and the stage not was wide as the 1.2's. They are measured even with the back wall. The room is not great, the 1C's do better in it for SDA, but 1.2's did ok too. Bass wise, everything appears in phase.

I do not have golden ears, and I can get used to a sound. I do better with A/B listening. I am not the best at picking up fine differences for raw listing and memory can get skewed, but I think I get a good over impression.

Strings sound great, but something seams off with piano, both on Stereophile and Chesky CD's. The bass warble tones confirmed these don't have the bass of the 1.2's, but 40-50 Hz may have been better. At 63 and 31.5 Hz there was an odd flutter sound that I don't recall with the other SDA's. I don't think its room related. I'll have to see when I can set up something with a smaller amp and my 1C's in a different room.

The bass on these was good, but did not seem as tight as I would have expected. There may also be a little boost around 40-50Hz as mentioned above. This may make it appear that the roll off below that is greater? 80's rock sounded great. There was a bit of the Cerwin Vega / JBL 12" woofer bass thump, but this was cleaner.

---TL;DR SUMMARY---

In short detail is amazing, tweeter sound is sweet, strings and brass are great. Bass is good, but maybe could be tighter. Piano and some other sounds seem a little off.
Something doesn't seem as good with the SDA. It could be the room, but I remember the 1.2's having a sharper center (I could be wrong). Some bass also seem a little off.
With 63 and 31.5 Hz warble tones there was an odd flutter sound that I don't recall with the other SDA's. It could be my imagination, but at higher volumes it appears some of the drivers drift in and others out during heavy bass passages.

I am trying to find the original list on all the mods, but the short lists are in the above sale thread, and I think the original sale thread.
http://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/166212/fully-modded-sda-srs-2-3tl-for-sale-1300/p1

Any ideas on what all to check? It mentions BH5, so I am wondering if that could be affecting the piano and other sounds. Could there be some standing waves in the cabinet affecting things? Move them closer to or further away from the wall? Could something be like a mm off to affect the SDA? The room is not great, but two sets of SDA's sounded pretty good, and I was able to pinpoint the room issues with the 1.2's.

F1nut

It could be my imagination, but at higher volumes it appears some of the drivers drift in and others out during heavy bass passages.

That would indicate some of the drivers are wired incorrectly.

BTW, it's "seems"

pkquat

F1nut wrote: »

BTW, it's "seems"

lol Ya I typo that all the time. I try and catch most of them.

F1nut wrote: »

It could be my imagination, but at higher volumes it appears some of the drivers drift in and others out during heavy bass passages.

That would indicate some of the drivers are wired incorrectly.

Everything appears to be in phase visually. All the drivers go out at the same time for a tight kick bass drum. The wiring is original and white and green are (-). Black and blue are red dot (+). I checked every other driver and looked up to see the next. I checked 2 tweeters on each channel. Blue was middle and red was top, both the small connector. It hard to mess those connections up so I doubt the others are off.

The drift happens during some bass riffs, or drum fills where the drivers are very active. It appears some slowly drift out a little and others slowly drift in over a few seconds.

PS there is a strip of thick BH5 about 3-4in wide behind the all the MWs. The polyfill sheet behind the MWs is in a V shape with the point in the back.

F1nut

Ok, SEEMS that the drivers are wired correctly.

The poly fill should be two pieces, one behind each row of drivers and should be more of a U shape with the bend towards the front of the speaker.

pkquat

The poly fill may have a bit more of a V that U shape. I'll see if it I can change the shape or it makes much difference. When I get the time I will have try and find the BH5 threads. How much to put and where. I think there were some listening results. I remember someone had over done it, and how it affected the sound.

The RD0-198's in these sound so sweet, but dull for the first couple minutes. I must be burnt out on the SL2000's although its been a quite a while since I've been listening to speakers with them, and I'll have to swap out the RD0-198's with the SL3000's sometime to hear the difference. I didn't find much issue with the SL3000.

F1nut

The BH5 should be 3 to 4 inches wide and just enough to go from the top to the bottom of each row of drivers

The new tweeters take about 50 hours to burn in.

pkquat

I'll have to take another peak. The height of the BH5 matches, and I think the width is within that range, although probably closer to 4". According the previous owners information the tweeters and crossovers have about 150-200 on them already.

I think the tweeters are just my ears. I'm expecting something to sound hotter. I had a lot of time listening to the 1C's with the SL2000's. Since then its been spotty. It may take some time to re-calibrate. I'll have to try an rotate in some other speakers I know the sound of too.