so -- yeah -- active (minimalist) two-channel preamps: what do you guyses like?

mhardy6647
mhardy6647 Posts: 33,802
in 2 Channel Audio
Since the topic came up elsewhere :) and I remain eternally curious to find a two-channel active line-level preamp that I like... what do you all use and like?

The complicating factor is I need a front end that's compatible with (and empathetic to) a single-ended direct-heated triode power amplifier. No global NFB, single voltage-amplifier (one section of a 6SL7 or 6SN7, etc.) driving a cathode-biased 2A3. Bare bones.

The amp could use more drive for the signal feeding the voltage amp.

Tried a variety of things -- nothing really high end (other than a couple of McIntosh products, which didn't float my boat), but have yet to find one I really liked the sound of relative to a passive TVC attenuator and source selector switch front end.

All that's needed is some gain/drive (more the latter), source switching and a good volume control (attenuator). Balance control would be nice, too.

Don't need any sissy remote, tone controls, etc. ;)

What do any of youse guyses like for such an application?
Thanks!

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Comments

  • BlueMDPicker
    BlueMDPicker Posts: 7,569
    My favorites, in ranking order.

    Solid State - PS Audio GCP 200 - Pros: Invisible in chain (solid state or tube powered) to my ears, Balanced and SE inputs/outputs, remote, individual output gain settings, external PS, sub output. Cons: On the large size.

    May be able to pick one up for a nice price from PS Audio in their trade-up program?

    Tube based - Joule Electra LA-100MkIII. Pros: Uncolored gain with internally switchable level, remote, stand-by. Cons: Limited inputs/outputs (3/3) all SE.
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,962
    I'll second the Joule, since I have one, but it's no slacker on drive....and sound, that's for sure.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
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  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,934
    Nu-Force P8?

    10316-3.jpg
    10316-6.jpg


    http://www.tmraudio.com/product/cn1-75
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,802
    This is good... thanks, folks!
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  • kharp1
    kharp1 Posts: 3,453
    Not to threadjack, but, I've been very happy with my Joule and it will probably be on the market soon.
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,802
    I beg your pardon?!?

    ;)

    In seriousness, I'll keep an eye peeled (isn't that an awful mental image??).
    Not sure I can afford it -- but lookin's free :)
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  • hochpt21
    hochpt21 Posts: 5,423
    I thought I remember the Adcom GFP-750 being a pretty hot item on this forum a few years back...
    2 ChannelTurntable - VPI Classic 2/Ortofon 2M BlueAmplification - Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum II, Parks Audio Budgie PhonoSpeakers - GoldenEar Triton 17.2 Home TheaterDenon AVR-X3300W; Rotel RMB-1066; Klipsch RP-280F's, Klipsch RP-450C, Polk FXi3's, Polk RC60i; Dual SVS PB 2000's; BenQ HT2050; Elite Screens 120"Man CaveTurntable - Pro-Ject 2.9 Wood/Grado GoldAmplification - Dared SL2000a, McCormack DNA 0.5 DeluxeCD: Cambridge AudioSpeakers - Wharfedale Linton 85th Anniversary; LSiM 703; SDA 2A
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  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,934
    edited November 2017
    They seem to be quite rare on the used market, can't find any for sale. I guess everyone who has one is holding onto it!
    hochpt21 wrote: »
    I thought I remember the Adcom GFP-750 being a pretty hot item on this forum a few years back...

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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,802
    Got to play with one of these for a bit last winter... it seemed pretty good, actually, but I didn't get to "live" with it, so my initial impression may not have held up.

    32650125070_3866df6a74_b.jpgDSC_7135 (2) by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

    http://www.tubes4hifi.com/SP14.htm

    They're kind of not outrageously priced, but I don't know how good of an investment one would be.

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  • BlueMDPicker
    BlueMDPicker Posts: 7,569
    edited November 2017
    Mark,

    I built, and enjoyed, one of these a few years back. May have sold it here? Can't remember.

    TranscendentGGfront01.jpg


    Highly regarded, nice early winter project, not big money, no fancy remote. Investment? You so funny!

    Transcendent Sound Grounded Grid Preamp

    Edit: I have the plans for this in his book "Audio Reality" also.
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  • voltz
    voltz Posts: 5,384
    edited November 2017
    I really grown to love my Vincent hybrid preamp. The SA-31MK and until it went side by side with Marvin's deHavilland UltraVerve 3 Preamplifier it was as good as I remember a preamp being. and is about half the price of the Ulraverve 3.
    hmiz48hq434a.jpg
    zi7viyn09uvb.jpg

    2 ch- Polk CRS+ * Vincent SA-31MK Preamp * Vincent Sp-331 Amp * Marantz SA8005 SACD * Project Xperience Classic TT * Sumiko Blue Point #2 MC cartridge

    HT - Polk 703's * NAD T-758 * Adcom 5503 * Oppo 103 * Samsung 60" series 8 LCD
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,802
    This is very helpful information -- do any of you have experience with any of these preamps and a single ended DHT power amp?
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,416
    edited November 2017
    Does the Pass X1 count as minimalist? I have had one in my rig for some time now and have zero desire to replace it. It performs very well with my tube amps.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,802
    I cannot imagine that there's a Pass product I could actually afford, unfortunately. I'll bet it is excellent.
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  • Wardsweb
    Wardsweb Posts: 935
    I run a custom 6H30 with 2A3 amplification that is absolutely superb.

    setsystem.jpg

    While you can't buy this pre, you can buy the NOSValves NBS version that the circuit is taken from. Email craig@nosvalves.com for information. Google NOSvalves NBS preamp for pictures.

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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,802
    edited November 2017
    Thanks. I shall look into that -- I am not (at all) averse to DIY, although I know that preamps are hard to get quiet.
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,416
    edited November 2017
    https://www.audiogon.com/listings/solid-state-preamplifier-2017-10-28-preamplifiers

    Don't know why, but they seem to have bounced up in value recently. They were in the 1800 range not that long ago. I seem to remember paying 1600 when I got mine 5 years ago...
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,802
    I think that's about double what I'd prefer to spend.

    Ok, I'd prefer to find one at the dump, but, failing that...

    ;)

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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,802
    edited November 2017
    I actually do have an interesting soiled state stereo preamp that I found at the good ol' Harvard town dump. Somebody's DIY project, but quite nicely done.

    It is an interesting piece. I cannot say it's good -- but it is interesting.
    I used it for years in the basement with a Maggotbox (umm, I mean Magnavox) PP EL84 power amplifier and a variety of sources. It sits atop a Sony CDP and a Sony dual cassette deck in the photo below.

    10652425536_eb9ab10828_z.jpgEL84PPstereoconsole by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

    (driving the world's ugliest AR-3 loudspeakers; they sounded fine, though)

    I actually have a fairly nice GAS Thoebe that I've never actually tried with the SE 2A3 amp... it might be interesting to try...

    10091422313_dd0abaf0a4_b.jpgthoebe by Mark Hardy, on Flickr
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  • Wardsweb
    Wardsweb Posts: 935
    Great American Sound Thoebe. A James Bongiorno original. I haven't seen one of those in a while.
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,802
    The GAS preamps are surprisingly common in -- certain circles -- here in northern New England. They... weren't bad. :)
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,802
    Of course, these are, regrettably, common around these parts, too ;)

    pgv7ppf3zgtb.png


    ;)
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  • BlueMDPicker
    BlueMDPicker Posts: 7,569
    Mark,

    I have a pristine PAS 3X in the closet that I've never gotten around to refreshing. What's regrettable about the PAT-4? Solid state?
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,802
    edited November 2017
    Not that it (the PAT-4, that is) is solid state per se --it is that it sounds pretty terrible. There are many well-documented improvements, but, all in all, it ain't a great piece.

    The PAT-5 was/is reputed to be better, but I cannot recall that I've ever heard one.

    FWIW: Opinions are very mixed on the PAS-3 family; I have rehabbed identically one in my life (a basic rehab -- for someone else); I thought it was OK when I was finished, but not everyone would agree.

    ddaw2krbhwla.png


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  • BlueMDPicker
    BlueMDPicker Posts: 7,569
    Do a search on eBay for Grounded Grid Preamp, Mark. Some very inexpensive DIY kits and fully populated driver/power supply board (sans power transformer) for cheap (from "Chi na" of course). Might be fun to play with?
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,802
    edited November 2017
    I have long been intrigued by the original GG preamp from Rozenblit, but have never heard one. The price is/was right. Does he still offer the kit? I haven't looked in a long time.

    I am aware of the third party iterations of Rozenblit's work, but they're not of much interest due to the abuse of his IP; thanks though.
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  • deronb1
    deronb1 Posts: 5,021
    Parasound P\LD 1100 had very strong gain. Couldn't get mine past 9:00 without being too loud for me. Can be had for around $200.00 I'm guessing.
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  • BlueMDPicker
    BlueMDPicker Posts: 7,569
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    I have long been intrigued by the original GG preamp from Rozenblit, but have never heard one. The price is/was right. Does he still offer the kit? I haven't looked in a long time.

    See my second post in this thread for link.
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    I am aware of the third party iterations of Rozenblit's work, but they're not of much interest due to the abuse of his IP; thanks though.

    IIRC, the plans for the GG were released to the public domain. Several of the ads I mentioned give recognition to Bruce.

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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,802
    THat's good -- I know early on he and I swapped a few e-mails about the ones on eBAY. He was irked about them but didn't have much enthusiasm about doing anything about it. Not sure if he could do much about it. Things may have changed (it was a number of years ago).

    I will go and look at the earlier link (which, I'll confess, I missed -- we've been fairly busy this week... and next week, of course, is "worse" in that regard).

    Thanks.
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  • motorstereo
    motorstereo Posts: 2,133
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    Since the topic came up elsewhere :) and I remain eternally curious to find a two-channel active line-level preamp that I like... what do you all use and like?
    Tried a variety of things -- nothing really high end (other than a couple of McIntosh products, which didn't float my boat), but have yet to find one I really liked the sound of relative to a passive TVC attenuator and source selector switch front end.

    No suggestions here but I'm wondering what Mac pre did you try that you did not like? I had an MX110 a while back and for the life of me I could not warm to it's sound either.
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