Anyone know anything about Powerstroke engines?

exalted512

I just purchased my second Ford diesel (but the first is a 93 Ford 6610 tractor) last Thursday. It's a 2012 F-350 XL Crew cab, long bed, FX4 with 137k on the 6.7L diesel engine. The guy I purchased it from originally purchased the truck less than a year ago and put about 8k miles on it. It was a company oilfield truck prior to that. Conveniently, after I bought it, he told me that sometimes the CEL comes on and it's because of the coolant sensor. He made it sound like it was a bad sensor, but it seems that there's a leak somewhere. The CEL came on, it said P026A. The coolant level was low in the radiator itself (there's another reservoir for a separate system as well). Since Friday, I've added over 2 gallons and I haven't been driving that much, but no obvious leaks or anything on the ground. Some of that was definitely because it was low, but it seems to be eating it up unless there was a huge air bubble. I added more this morning when the CEL came on again. Same code, topped it off, cleared code, now it's fine. The temperature gauge has never really fluctuated. For right now, I'm just driving the truck back and forth to work trying to make sure I get any kinks out.

Anyway, hoping to look more into it this weekend, but was hoping to get some tips. Oil on the dipstick appears fine. I've read to look at the bottom/corner of the radiator on the drivers side near that drain petcock as well as a line that goes back by the turbo. Hoping to avoid taking it to a mechanic if at all possible. I'm mechanically inclined, but not necessarily knowledgeable about diesel engines aside from my tractor (which it's so simple and easy to access that there's really no comparison).

-Cody

Jstas

It's not a super common problem but there's more than a few people running in to it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0wbSHp_mcU

http://www.powerstroke.org/forum/6-7-motor-problems-2011-2016/598674-2011-6-7l-coolant-disappearing.html

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1374475-6-7-coolant-leaks.html

http://www.powerstrokenation.com/forums/167-11-16-6-7l-power-stroke-technical-info/311402-2011-6-7-coolant-leak.html

There's more links when you search for "6.7l powerstroke coolant problems" on Google.

Also, there appears to be a recall effort on the radiator for them. No recall yet but search for "6.7 powerstroke radiator recall" and a ton of info comes up.

Moose68Bash

My advice, which is not very helpful at this point, is to get a Ram pickup with a Cummins turbodiesel, if you want a diesel pickup.

The Cummins diesel, unlike most of the other diesel engines available in pickups, was developed for heavier duty applications -- e.g., ag, construction, industrial -- and, therefore, might be considered "overkill" for use in a pickup.

However, this is much better than taking an engine designed initially as a gasoline engine and "upgrading" it for use as a diesel. Compression and combustion pressures are much greater, for example, in diesels, and the entire engine should be designed and built to support that combustion technology. "Conversion" from gasoline to diesel fuel is not simple.

Best of luck in finding and fixing your problem with the Powerstroke engine.

Jstas

Ummmm.....the PowerStroke engines have either been built by NaviStar who only do diesel engines or it was fully developed in-house by Ford as a diesel engine.

The original Powerstroke was a Navistar T444E engine which was developed by Navistar to replace the International IDI diesel previously in the F-250 and up. The T444E was used in Ford and International's commercial chassis trucks, cab/chassis trucks and school buses because it was stuffed under the hood of the F-series.

In 2003, emissions standards necessitated the replacement of the T444E with the VT365 which was a Navistar engine that they used in a number of International commercial vehicles as well as AmTran (later IC) bus chassis. The VT365 fits under the hood of the Super Duty so they used that as the PowerStroke 6.0L. The VT365 has won engineering and design awards a few times.

The current PowerStroke is the result of Ford trying to cut engineering costs by bringing it's own engine building back in house. They also had out-of-control warranty claims through NaviStar because of poor quality control at NaviStar. The current PowerStroke is the "Scorpion" engine which was designed entirely as a diesel using Ford's modular engine design model so they could make bigger and smaller versions. It powers either as the only option or a base option, every Ford commercial light and medium duty truck or chassis/cab . The only one that doesn't have it is the Transit. But the Transit has it's own I5 version of the diesel.

As for your erroneous claim that the Cummins diesel in the Dodge trucks was designed for bigger vehicles, that may have been true in 1989 for Dodge only (the previous 7.4L IDI diesel from Ford was used in everything from tractors to cab/chassis/trailer to equipment power) when they started shoehorning it into the Dodge trucks, it has not been true since about 2003 when the Dodge Ram started coming with the Cummins ISB CR which was specifically designed for the Dodge Ram and only the Dodge Ram so that Dodge could meet the same, more strict emissions standards that forced Ford to go to the VT365 from Navistar and abandon the beastly, indestructible T444E based PowerStroke.

So to tell him that he should go buy a Dodge Ram solely because "The Cummins diesel, unlike most of the other diesel engines available in pickups, was developed for heavier duty applications -- e.g., ag, construction, industrial -- and, therefore, might be considered "overkill" for use in a pickup." is just wrong.

You're woefully misinformed and just perpetuating a bench-racing myth.

And the Cummins has not been without it's own problems.

exalted512

Moose68Bash wrote: »

My advice, which is not very helpful at this point, is to get a Ram pickup with a Cummins turbodiesel, if you want a diesel pickup.

The Cummins diesel, unlike most of the other diesel engines available in pickups, was developed for heavier duty applications -- e.g., ag, construction, industrial -- and, therefore, might be considered "overkill" for use in a pickup.

However, this is much better than taking an engine designed initially as a gasoline engine and "upgrading" it for use as a diesel. Compression and combustion pressures are much greater, for example, in diesels, and the entire engine should be designed and built to support that combustion technology. "Conversion" from gasoline to diesel fuel is not simple.

Best of luck in finding and fixing your problem with the Powerstroke engine.

There's an almost zero percent chance (I guess someone could theoretically give me one) of me owning a mopar product in the next 10 years. And if the last 25 is any indication, I'll never own one. Not to say the Cummins isn't a good engine, but unfortunately, there's all the stuff that's around the engine as well. But as noted, that discussion is long over. I would have preferred a GM, but unless I was willing to fork over more money or accept more miles, I'm stuck with Ford. But at least it has a solid front axle.
-Cody

exalted512

Jstas wrote: »

It's not a super common problem but there's more than a few people running in to it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0wbSHp_mcU

http://www.powerstroke.org/forum/6-7-motor-problems-2011-2016/598674-2011-6-7l-coolant-disappearing.html

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1374475-6-7-coolant-leaks.html

http://www.powerstrokenation.com/forums/167-11-16-6-7l-power-stroke-technical-info/311402-2011-6-7-coolant-leak.html

There's more links when you search for "6.7l powerstroke coolant problems" on Google.

Also, there appears to be a recall effort on the radiator for them. No recall yet but search for "6.7 powerstroke radiator recall" and a ton of info comes up.

Thanks John. Those are among the exact threads I've found on the problem as well as one of the videos I watched. I'm hoping it's that line. Might be hard to get to, but not impossible - and that part is cheap.
-Cody

Jstas

Those are the most common causes.

I just hope you don't have like a leak in the turbo or a head gasket or something.

nooshinjohn

Turbo issues are the worst.

exalted512

Jstas wrote: »

Those are the most common causes.

I just hope you don't have like a leak in the turbo or a head gasket or something.

Me too. But knowing my luck, that's what it'll be

Moose68Bash

Jstas wrote: »

Ummmm.....the PowerStroke engines have either been built by NaviStar who only do diesel engines or it was fully developed in-house by Ford as a diesel engine.

The original Powerstroke was a Navistar T444E engine which was developed by Navistar to replace the International IDI diesel previously in the F-250 and up. The T444E was used in Ford and International's commercial chassis trucks, cab/chassis trucks and school buses because it was stuffed under the hood of the F-series.

In 2003, emissions standards necessitated the replacement of the T444E with the VT365 which was a Navistar engine that they used in a number of International commercial vehicles as well as AmTran (later IC) bus chassis. The VT365 fits under the hood of the Super Duty so they used that as the PowerStroke 6.0L. The VT365 has won engineering and design awards a few times.

The current PowerStroke is the result of Ford trying to cut engineering costs by bringing it's own engine building back in house. They also had out-of-control warranty claims through NaviStar because of poor quality control at NaviStar. The current PowerStroke is the "Scorpion" engine which was designed entirely as a diesel using Ford's modular engine design model so they could make bigger and smaller versions. It powers either as the only option or a base option, every Ford commercial light and medium duty truck or chassis/cab . The only one that doesn't have it is the Transit. But the Transit has it's own I5 version of the diesel.

As for your erroneous claim that the Cummins diesel in the Dodge trucks was designed for bigger vehicles, that may have been true in 1989 for Dodge only (the previous 7.4L IDI diesel from Ford was used in everything from tractors to cab/chassis/trailer to equipment power) when they started shoehorning it into the Dodge trucks, it has not been true since about 2003 when the Dodge Ram started coming with the Cummins ISB CR which was specifically designed for the Dodge Ram and only the Dodge Ram so that Dodge could meet the same, more strict emissions standards that forced Ford to go to the VT365 from Navistar and abandon the beastly, indestructible T444E based PowerStroke.

So to tell him that he should go buy a Dodge Ram solely because "The Cummins diesel, unlike most of the other diesel engines available in pickups, was developed for heavier duty applications -- e.g., ag, construction, industrial -- and, therefore, might be considered "overkill" for use in a pickup." is just wrong.

You're woefully misinformed and just perpetuating a bench-racing myth.

And the Cummins has not been without it's own problems.

@jstas,

I appreciate your correcting my assumptions and my ignorance about the pedigree of the Powerstroke engine. My mistake was lumping the Powerstroke together with other diesels that were the result of conversions, essentially, of gasoline engines for use as diesels and which suffered reliability and durability problems as a result.

I believe, however, that if you trace the pedigree of the Cummins ISB CR, you will find that while it was modified to achieve "more strict emissions standards," as you said, the fundamental engine design is that of the original Cummins B series engines produced in a joint venture with JI Case in Rock Mount, NC, in the mid-1980s.

Case used these engine in ag and industrial applications -- not necessarily "bigger vehicles," as you put it, but certainly in many instances applications that put greater demands on the engine than Ram pickups.

I have no desire to prolong a useless argument about the history of Cummins's B Series engines, but I do want to correct your statement that "[my] erroneous claim that the Cummins diesel in the Dodge trucks was designed for bigger vehicles" is a misrepresentation of my point.

First, the ISB CR was modified for use specifically in the Dodge Ram, but it was not "specifically designed for Dodge Ram," as you say, if by that you mean that it was a wholly new engine design. It was not. It was a modified B Series engine.

Second, I did not say designed for "bigger vehicles," but as I said above it was designed for use in applications that place greater demands on an engine than your typical pick up.

Cheers!

Phil

PS: You clearly know a lot more about this general topic than I, but I do know a bit about Cummins's B Series engine because I was there when the JI Case/Cummins joint venture was launched.

exalted512

nbrowser wrote: »

Just something that popped up today coolant loss thru a crack in the head...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnjx8Za32us

Don't bring that kind of negativity in my thread. I only want responses of "oh, that's an easy fix"

FestYboy

Hey, the 6.0 wasn't any better...

Viking64

FestYboy wrote: »

Hey, the 6.0 wasn't any better...

AKA "six point slow"

I drove a 6.0 F-350 King Ranch for a few years. It was a nice truck inside and outside, but under the hood was a different story.

exalted512

nbrowser wrote: »

Unfortunately sometimes it's not an easy fix. I'm a mechanic myself and hate working on Powerstrokes but do anyways. There's so much to go wrong that looking for easy...can be frustrating.

P.S. Be thankful it's not a 6.4...holy hell what a piece...lasted 2 years til Ford killed that turkey.

For some reason on my phone it only posted half of what I said...anyway, this is at least a 2012. Through the research I did prior to buying, I heard that 11's had some issues that the 12's didn't. I also heard the same about the 6.4s, which directed my search again to 12+, even though I'm not necessarily opposed to having something that was older. Yet here I am, with truck problems...lol. But yeah, I'm a little peeved that the guy I bought it from decided not to disclose this until after the sale, but I know that's the type of things you can encounter buying from a private party.

This thing seems to be using a quart or two a day of coolant, so it's been parked until I find out more. I'll be looking into it tomorrow morning...crossing my fingers it's the line by the turbo...I just think if it was, I would've seen or smelled it burning off with the amount of coolant it's losing.
-Cody

exalted512

I'm at a loss on this one. Don't see anything abnormal out the exhaust, in the oil, and can't find any visible leaks around the engine. As much as I hate dealerships, barring me missing something obvious, I'm not sure how easy or common of a fix this is going to be, so I figured the dealership who works with them every day might be my best bet. First time I have ever gone to the dealership for something that wasn't under warranty.
-Cody

Jstas

Dude, before you go doing that, get this:

http://www.autozone.com/test-scan-and-specialty-tools/uv-light-and-accessories/quest-8-oz-engine-coolant-uv-dye/835773_0_0

and a black light. Dump it in the radiator and drive the truck like you would for a few days or until the light comes back on.

Then go shining the black light around the engine bay until you see the coolant leak shine.

exalted512

I honestly didn't even think about that, John. But it's too late now, I took it to the dealership before work this morning. And honestly, I'm so strapped for time right now, I might've taken it to the dealer had I thought of it. I need to get this thing right and back on the road ASAP.

This is what I get for constantly 'talking trash' to my buddies with Fords then going out and buying one. Damn you karma!

motorhead43026

I have walked into a Ford dealer twice in the last couple weeks to buy an Escape. Turned around walked out both times. Just can't bring myself to do it. I like the vehicle, just the fact it is a Furd is a turn off. I am sure it is a **** anyway.

pitdogg2

FORD'S ROCK
It's all i got

Been Ford blue a long time had the others, but once you find a great mechanic you tend to keep what he works on. Mine works on Ford, Lincoln Mercury and that is it. Take him a GM or Dodge and he'll tell you he'll get to it when he runs out of Fords. Could be 3-4yrs

motorhead43026

I do have a 1969 Mercury Cougar, 34000 original miles.

mhardy6647

motorhead43026 wrote: »

I have walked into a Ford dealer twice in the last couple weeks to buy an Escape. Turned around walked out both times. Just can't bring myself to do it. I like the vehicle, just the fact it is a Furd is a turn off. I am sure it is a **** anyway.

I like Fords just fine -- but -- from my perspective, you did the right thing vis-a-vis the current Escape.
Their track record hasn't been great.

The CR-V's nice if you want that kind of vehicle.

tonyb

pitdogg2 wrote: »

FORD'S ROCK
It's all i got

Been Ford blue a long time had the others, but once you find a great mechanic you tend to keep what he works on. Mine works on Ford, Lincoln Mercury and that is it. Take him a GM or Dodge and he'll tell you he'll get to it when he runs out of Fords. Could be 3-4yrs

lol, not exactly a great statement on Fords behalf.

exalted512

tonyb wrote: »

lol, not exactly a great statement on Fords behalf.

He knows who pays the bills. haha!

motorhead43026

mhardy6647 wrote: »

motorhead43026 wrote: »

I have walked into a Ford dealer twice in the last couple weeks to buy an Escape. Turned around walked out both times. Just can't bring myself to do it. I like the vehicle, just the fact it is a Furd is a turn off. I am sure it is a **** anyway.

I like Fords just fine -- but -- from my perspective, you did the right thing vis-a-vis the current Escape.
Their track record hasn't been great.

The CR-V's nice if you want that kind of vehicle.

I am with you on the CRV. So far that is at the top of my list. I am buying used certified.

mhardy6647

Mrs. H has a CR-V (a 2016); it's a nice vehicle.
(she loved her 2005 Escape Hybrid -- loved it for a little over 246,000 miles with no significant problems... except rust that ultimately claimed it)

I am giving serious consideration to a used CR-V for me... to replace my '06 RAV4.
Suffice to say neither of us were seriously considering another RAV4 ( -- and I am generally pretty pro-Toyota).

motorhead43026

Yes I have looked at the RAV4, everything about them screams cheap.

exalted512

It's the EGR cooler that's leaking internally. Which is weird because I haven't seen any white smoke coming out the exhaust. Well, I wasn't planning on deleting this truck, but I'm not going to pay to put that crap back on.
-Cody

mikeyb128

exalted512 wrote: »

It's the EGR cooler that's leaking internally. Which is weird because I haven't seen any white smoke coming out the exhaust. Well, I wasn't planning on deleting this truck, but I'm not going to pay to put that crap back on.
-Cody

You won't see white smoke. Our VW/Audi diesels do this as well. The only tell tale sign (besides no external leaks) is carbon traces in the coolant bottle/over flow (black stuff often misdiagnosed as oil in the coolant, AKA headgaskets). Plus that white smoke is usually masked by that black disgusting diesel smoke anyway

pitdogg2

motorhead43026 wrote: »

I do have a 1969 Mercury Cougar, 34000 original miles.

Sweet

pitdogg2

tonyb wrote: »

pitdogg2 wrote: »

FORD'S ROCK
It's all i got

Been Ford blue a long time had the others, but once you find a great mechanic you tend to keep what he works on. Mine works on Ford, Lincoln Mercury and that is it. Take him a GM or Dodge and he'll tell you he'll get to it when he runs out of Fords. Could be 3-4yrs

lol, not exactly a great statement on Fords behalf.

Lol come on T
My 2003 4.6 F150 has 225,000 doesn't burn or use any oil, front end is tight as a virgin.
Now the exwives 2003 silverado has 200,000 on it leaks fluids everywhere. She has put nearly 3000.00 in it the last 3 years.

By the way he only works on my Ford when it's something i do not have the ability to and he knows my abilities or will show me how to do it if he feels it is within my abilities.

exalted512

nbrowser wrote: »

nbrowser wrote: »

Jstas wrote: »

Those are the most common causes.

I just hope you don't have like a leak in the turbo or a head gasket or something.

The EGR cooler is always a possibility too...

exalted512 wrote: »

It's the EGR cooler that's leaking internally. Which is weird because I haven't seen any white smoke coming out the exhaust. Well, I wasn't planning on deleting this truck, but I'm not going to pay to put that crap back on.
-Cody

Apologies for being clairvoyant...Seems to be a bit of a common issue....just delete it if they'll do it...also see about getting the DPF deleted as well...might need a third party shop for that.

I'm certainly blaming you. Had you not said that, it probably would've just been there turbo fitting.
I doubt the dealership will do it. Small town, so they're pretty anal about 'by the book'. I'm going to pay their diagnostic fee and likely take it to a performance shop a little over an hour away in Houston to delete it and be done with it. Big shout out to the government for mandating the installation of these.