RTi A9 and harsh sibilance

Akedon

Hey guys, need a help.

RTi A9`s connected to Rotel RB-1590 amp + Rotel RC-1590 preamp.
Sound is really clear, got epic dynamic, power bass (RTi A9 have really good bass with enough power), but in some music I hear too harsh sibilance, especially with high volume.
Turned down a bit 6khz-8khz with EQ, it helps, but some songs still sounds wtih annoying SSSSSSS, like snakes. Especially the older songs, like Pain - End of the Line, Rammstein - Sehnsucht, for example.
Listening room is big, 200 square meters.
Speakers connected by 8m electric copper cables, section 4 mm, cost ~20$. Connected to amp by BI-WIRING as the Rotel manual says (I have found that this connection sounds clearer).


So, how to fixxxxxx it?

And forgot to write, I'm using a PC as a player (program AIMP), which connected by PC-USB cable to preamp.

Also, I'm not running RTi A9 for a long time, played them for 30 hours maybe, so they are like a new.

pitdogg2

Oh where to start....

Akedon

pitdogg2 wrote: »

Oh where to start....

I'm listening
I like how music sounds, clear and rich, but sibilance is too harsh. In some music I don't have problems, in some music yes.

lightman1

How about a good pic of the speaker cables. Make and model.
Spider senses are tingling on this one.

tonyb

20 buck speaker cables are your problem. Whats the source for music too ? Lossless/mp3/cd/computer/?

EndersShadow

tonyb wrote: »

20 buck speaker cables are your problem. Whats the source for music too ? Lossless/mp3/cd/computer/?

^This.

If your listening to MP3 or low bit/lossy files (WMA, etc) that may be where your problem lies....

And as mentioned the speaker cables... "electric copper cables"? What does that mean?

pitdogg2

tonyb wrote: »

20 buck speaker cables are your problem. Whats the source for music too ? Lossless/mp3/cd/computer/?

PC as a player Tony

From above
"And forgot to write, I'm using a PC as a player (program AIMP), which connected by PC-USB cable to preamp."

For one RTIA9 is voiced as a theater speaker Reference Theater Improved A9. So yes it is a bright speaker to begin with.

Akedon

tonyb wrote: »

20 buck speaker cables are your problem. Whats the source for music too ? Lossless/mp3/cd/computer/?

Lossless formats (flac, alac, wav etc.), chip notebook (without coolers and HDD, with SDD, really quiet) connected to pre amp via PC-USB cable.

EndersShadow wrote: »

tonyb wrote: »

20 buck speaker cables are your problem. Whats the source for music too ? Lossless/mp3/cd/computer/?

^This.

If your listening to MP3 or low bit/lossy files (WMA, etc) that may be where your problem lies....

And as mentioned the speaker cables... "electric copper cables"? What does that mean?

lightman1 wrote: »

How about a good pic of the speaker cables. Make and model.
Spider senses are tingling on this one.

Usual chinese copper cable, my friend told me that a copper cable with good section thats all I need, so...
Is there any difference between usual 8m copper cable for 20$ and OFC cable for 200$?

lightman1

Running hot from the source.

lightman1

''

EndersShadow

Akedon wrote: »

Lossless formats (flac, alac, wav etc.), chip notebook (without coolers and HDD, with SDD, really quiet) connected to pre amp via PC-USB cable.

Ok, thats a good start as in theory your source music should be good.

I'm not familiar with the PC program you are using to play your music. Does it stream the music in the format it was originally, or converted it when it sends it to the Rotel?

Akedon wrote: »

Usual chinese copper cable, my friend told me that a copper cable with good section thats all I need, so...
Is there any difference between usual 8m copper cable for 20$ and OFC cable for 200$?

Brand? So like monoprice, radio shack, etc speaker cable, or like power wire (like you connect to an outlet)?

I'm very confused myself....

Also are you in Europe as normally speaker wire is measured in gauge, IE 14 gauge, 16 gauge, etc?

Akedon

EndersShadow wrote: »

Akedon wrote: »

Lossless formats (flac, alac, wav etc.), chip notebook (without coolers and HDD, with SDD, really quiet) connected to pre amp via PC-USB cable.

Ok, thats a good start as in theory your source music should be good.

I'm not familiar with the PC program you are using to play your music. Does it stream the music in the format it was originally, or converted it when it sends it to the Rotel?

Akedon wrote: »

Usual chinese copper cable, my friend told me that a copper cable with good section thats all I need, so...
Is there any difference between usual 8m copper cable for 20$ and OFC cable for 200$?

Brand? So like monoprice, radio shack, etc speaker cable, or like power wire (like you connect to an outlet)?

I'm very confused myself....

Also are you in Europe as normally speaker wire is measured in gauge, IE 14 gauge, 16 gauge, etc?

AIMP doesn't convert music, it plays with original format.

I'm using power wire, yes xD I',m currently not at home, so can't check the brand.
Maybe thats why I need to turn up volume up to 70% to just make it loud enough? Because of big Ohms of the power cable? And thats why I'm getting that distortions with SSSS?
I think my problem with the cable, need to buy good acoustic cable.
Any ideas what to buy? Which good brands you know (but not super expensive)?

EndersShadow

Signal Cable, Blue Jeans Cable, Douglas Connection custom length speaker wire. Those are my best suggestions.

rooftop59

Where r u located? There are often folks here on the forum who have extra cables in their goodie back they might be willing to sell...

Akedon

EndersShadow wrote: »

Signal Cable, Blue Jeans Cable, Douglas Connection custom length speaker wire. Those are my best suggestions.

Thanks, I will check!

rooftop59 wrote: »

Where r u located? There are often folks here on the forum who have extra cables in their goodie back they might be willing to sell...

I'm from Russia, so I think I will buy it here

msg

Interesting. I'm curious to hear whether a change from electrical wire for speaker cables to stranded audio speaker wire will address this.

My gut here is that it's inherent to the speaker's signature. Wouldn't rule out improvement after a switch to a nice speaker cable, though.

gudnoyez

I run Signal Cables on my RTIA9'S as mentioned in other posts these speakers are more on mind for HT applications sometimes bright listening to music through them I have no harsh sounds or sibalance of any kind. I Agree with the others swap out the speaker wire your using.I listen to a lot of PC sourced music through the dac on an Oppo Player and actually enjoy it, the RtiA9's are some great towers.

Akedon

msg wrote: »

Interesting. I'm curious to hear whether a change from electrical wire for speaker cables to stranded audio speaker wire will address this.

My gut here is that it's inherent to the speaker's signature. Wouldn't rule out improvement after a switch to a nice speaker cable, though.

I know that RTi A9 is a bright speakers, but I got really annoying sound with some music, so annoying, that I can't listen to them. Thats not right I think.

I'm was really confused when I connected Rotel amp+preamp and noticed, that speakers sounds so quite with 60% volume. Speakers are in ~3 meters from me. My old 50W Yamaha receiver makes loud enough sound with ~73% (with big distotrions), Rotel makes loud enough with ~70% volume (with distrotions in sibalance, all other sound is clean).
I think it's because of big Ohms on my electrical cable, I will check it.

EndersShadow

Akedon wrote: »

I'm from Russia

That makes sense. That may make things a bit more difficult speaker wire wise, but I'm sure you can find some good basic speaker cables.

I'm not familiar with European brands, so I cant help you out much there on who to seek out.

msg

Akedon wrote: »

I know that RTi A9 is a bright speakers, but I got really annoying sound with some music, so annoying, that I can't listen to them. That's not right I think.

I'm was really confused when I connected Rotel amp+preamp and noticed, that speakers sounds so quite with 60% volume. Speakers are in ~3 meters from me. My old 50W Yamaha receiver makes loud enough sound with ~73% (with big distotrions), Rotel makes loud enough with ~70% volume (with distrotions in sibalance, all other sound is clean).
I think it's because of big Ohms on my electrical cable, I will check it.

Ah, cool, I didn' t know that - a Russian audio brother.

I had a similar experience with RTi10's when I first got started at the end of 2013. I think the /A's are supposed to be a bit smoother, but in my case, I just couldn't get past it, no matter what I did. I enjoyed them for HT, but music sessions were just torture. It was just too uncomfortable for me, unfortunately. Hope you can get satisfactory performance with minimal investment. Personally, I wouldn't go nuts trying to "fix" them, or you might find yourself chasing your tail, never really quite getting there for satisfactory, pleasing sound.

Are you in a position to maybe try out some different speakers from other audio friends? (I wasn't; most of my friends all used home theater in a box type stuff, so I had to experiment on my own) I'd be interested to hear your impressions if you're able to try a different pair of speakers. To me, this would be like a broadsword chop at the problem.

rooftop59

I know that @F1nut says he tamed the highs through a combo of REALLY high-end MIT cables, spikes, and a pretty elaborate crossover upgrade. I imagine that just decent cables would be a good start, good spikes might also be something affordable that you could do.

But yes, they are the Reference theater line and are voiced to be forward and a bit bright, which makes theater soundtracks really fun and involving, but in my experience is just not the best for music.

Akedon

msg wrote: »

Akedon wrote: »

I know that RTi A9 is a bright speakers, but I got really annoying sound with some music, so annoying, that I can't listen to them. That's not right I think.

I'm was really confused when I connected Rotel amp+preamp and noticed, that speakers sounds so quite with 60% volume. Speakers are in ~3 meters from me. My old 50W Yamaha receiver makes loud enough sound with ~73% (with big distotrions), Rotel makes loud enough with ~70% volume (with distrotions in sibalance, all other sound is clean).
I think it's because of big Ohms on my electrical cable, I will check it.

Ah, cool, I didn' t know that - a Russian audio brother.

I had a similar experience with RTi10's when I first got started at the end of 2013. I think the /A's are supposed to be a bit smoother, but in my case, I just couldn't get past it, no matter what I did. I enjoyed them for HT, but music sessions were just torture. It was just too uncomfortable for me, unfortunately. Hope you can get satisfactory performance with minimal investment. Personally, I wouldn't go nuts trying to "fix" them, or you might find yourself chasing your tail, never really quite getting there for satisfactory, pleasing sound.

Are you in a position to maybe try out some different speakers from other audio friends? (I wasn't; most of my friends all used home theater in a box type stuff, so I had to experiment on my own) I'd be interested to hear your impressions if you're able to try a different pair of speakers. To me, this would be like a broadsword chop at the problem.

rooftop59 wrote: »

I know that @F1nut says he tamed the highs through a combo of REALLY high-end MIT cables, spikes, and a pretty elaborate crossover upgrade. I imagine that just decent cables would be a good start, good spikes might also be something affordable that you could do.

But yes, they are the Reference theater line and are voiced to be forward and a bit bright, which makes theater soundtracks really fun and involving, but in my experience is just not the best for music.

I will check how it works with new cables first. My current cable is unknown chinese power cabel, I don't even know something about his parameters, I even can't remeber where and when I bought it. Costs less than 1$ per meter (so it costed ~16$ for 16 meters) : D I'm using this cable from really long time ago, when I had my first chip 4-8 Ohms speakers (Heco as I remember) and Sony ~50 Watt/channel receiver, so for that setup it was enough for me.
But anyway, I like power bright sound, since I like to listening to metal and electro music I'm just trying to fix that noisy SSSSS sound in some music.
For example, awesome Futurepop group "Eisfabrik" have really clean and bright sound, especially on voice, but it doesn't sounds noisy. Early works of "Rammstein" sounds annoying : [ Maybe it's a combo of bad recordings and bright speakers.
I'm going to test acoustic cable Kimber Kable 8PR on Monday (maybe before) and I will post my impressions on this topic

pitdogg2

Akedon wrote: »

Early works of "Rammstein" sounds annoying : [ Maybe it's a combo of bad recordings and bright speakers.
I'm going to test acoustic cable Kimber Kable 8PR on Monday (maybe before) and I will post my impressions on this topic

YES could very well be in bold above.

Kimber is very nice cable. Wire geometry makes a difference, Wire materials make a difference. It all makes a difference. Better interconnects and speaker wires can and do make a difference. Nobody is asking you to offer up a ton of cash to see for yourself but it does make a difference. Buy some better whether it be used or new cables and that kimber wire it should help tame the beast.

Akedon

Good news!
New cables still on the way, but I changed programm player from AIMP to JRiver Media Center. Turned down a bit 6khz-8khz with Parametric Equalizer (same as with AIMP, but AIMP have only graphical EQ), fully disabled volume tweaks on player (so only preamp can change it), used ASIO Rotel driver as an output (direct connection to preamp, without any Windows processing, more quality), also JRiver is deleting flat line overflows. And now my ears happy - no more noisy TSSSSSS, even if I turn up volume!
Now I'm waiting for acoustic cables instead of my chip electrical cables, I will get them on Monday, so I will post here next impressions soon

Akedon

So, if I have flat line overflows, that means that I'm clipping my amplifier. I think it's because of RCA connection.

INPUT SENSITIVITY
Line Level Inputs (RCA): 2.2V
Line Level Inputs (XLR): 3.5V

INPUT IMPEDANCE
Line Level Inputs (RCA): 12kΩ
Line Level Inputs (XLR): 100kΩ

So I should have used XLR connection, not RCA, and thats why I'm getting so quiet volume even at 60%. XLR input have more V and the difference between RCA input impendance and XLR input impendance is too big (~9x).

Looks like I have found what to upgrade next lol.

EndersShadow

If you are buying the Kimber 8PR that will be good. I run Kimber 8VS biwired for my LSi 15's and really like the cable.

If I could afford it, at a later date I'd love to step up to their 8TC wire, but thats pricey .

Glad your enjoying the music, its the most important part

kharp1

One thing that jumps out at me, besides what others have stated, the speakers are nowhere near broken in at 30 hours is nowhere near broken in. Some speakers take up to 400 hours or more. Let them break in, find some decent cabling and see what happens then.

deronb1

kharp1 wrote: »

One thing that jumps out at me, besides what others have stated, the speakers are nowhere near broken in at 30 hours is nowhere near broken in. Some speakers take up to 400 hours or more. Let them break in, find some decent cabling and see what happens then.

400 hours! I could be dead in 400 hours!

kharp1

That would suk, going out without ever hearing your speakers broken in!

Akedon

Checked new acoustic cable Kimber Kable 8PR.
And got awesome sound! Especially I heard a difference in bass and trebles. More power to bass and really clean treble. Music sounds so juicyly, really happy with that sound Now doesn't matter which music I'm going to play - old classic, metal or even Aggrotech - all sound awesome.
By the way, I'm still using EQ. 6khz-8khz still turned down a bit.

Tony M

I'm glad you have improved your sound. You stuck with it and listened to advice and your determination to better the sound paid off. Speaker wires do change the sound of speakers, I have heard a big difference here in the man cave.
I think having to turn volume up 60% to 70% is a lot but I did have a (still have it but it's on a shelf unused now) Rotel pre installed in my main system and I also had to turn the volume knob up to 50% to get a listenable volume that I liked. I even had to turn it up to 1:00 or a little more to rock out on my SDA-SRS2"s. I even had a Bob Carver Sunfire 600x2 amp for the power. I wonder if Rotel Pre-amps are mismatched with a lot of other brands.