How hot is too hot

jayman_1975

Just wondering what the general thought is on the amount of heat emitting from a piece of gear that one should be comfortable with. I have my amp in my rack with only about 3" clearance above it. It gets pretty warm, like just about too warm to hold your hand on for more than 10 seconds. I do have a cooling fan that I tried and it definitely cools the amp down but it's pretty loud and I would rather not have to use it. I guess I should try running it in an open spot to see just how hot it gets there and then decide if that's fairly normal.

dannylightning

i can hold my hand ontop of my amp for as long as i want.. if its about to burn you i would say its definitely too hot..

someone showed me this the other day.. looks awesome and i guess its really quiet..
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01LW0G46K/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_5?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A2AW0W4FKP16S5

motorhead43026

3" is not enough, especially if the rack is not open on the sides and back.

Emlyn

Are you referring to your receiver or a separate amplifier? If it was a separate amplifier in it's stock form I'd say don't worry about it. Separate amps are built to dissipate heat effectively.

If it's your modified receiver I'd say take it out of the rack and ask the company that did the upgrade about excessive heat build up. Some stock Onkyo receivers have inadequate heat dissipation built into their processor section which can shorten the lifespan of the processor. I think the processor normally runs hot in its stock form. It's very rare that the actual amplifier section in a receiver is running too hot in its stock form or the big companies wouldn't be allowed to sell their receivers. It appears from what the Upgrade Company says about their modifications that they use a lot of shielding but they don't say much about what else it is they do. They can give a good recommendation on space requirements. A quiet fan would also work.

EndersShadow

dannylightning wrote: »

i can hold my hand ontop of my amp for as long as i want.. if its about to burn you i would say its definitely too hot..

someone showed me this the other day.. looks awesome and i guess its really quiet..
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01LW0G46K/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_5?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A2AW0W4FKP16S5

Its SUPER QUIET. I have mine on top my Denon X4000 in a rack that has a closed glass face, two wooden sides and its only really open on the back. There are some slots in the bottom for natural airflow, but this fan makes a HUGE difference and the ONLY time I remember its running is when I am calibrating XT32 and the entire house is dead silent and I hear is a very slight whirring with the cabinet door open lol...

Otherwise during ANY type of normal use you'd have NO IDEA....

Its got 4 standard settings, each I think in 25% increments. I have mine set to I think 25%, but even at 50 and 75 its hard to hear from 6 feet away

jayman_1975

Emlyn wrote: »

Are you referring to your receiver or a separate amplifier? If it was a separate amplifier in it's stock form I'd say don't worry about it. Separate amps are built to dissipate heat effectively.

If it's your modified receiver I'd say take it out of the rack and ask the company that did the upgrade about excessive heat build up. Some stock Onkyo receivers have inadequate heat dissipation built into their processor section which can shorten the lifespan of the processor. I think the processor normally runs hot in its stock form. It's very rare that the actual amplifier section in a receiver is running too hot in its stock form or the big companies wouldn't be allowed to sell their receivers. It appears from what the Upgrade Company says about their modifications that they use a lot of shielding but they don't say much about what else it is they do. They can give a good recommendation on space requirements. A quiet fan would also work.

I'm referring to my separate amp. My receiver does run hot above the hdmi board normally but the amp section in it never really got too warm. No.....I actually did run it once to the point of the internal fan coming on but that was only once and I was just doing it as a comparison situation to see where it's limits were. Hit over 100db and just started to see the amp section lose a bit of control after a few minutes so that's as far as it went. That was the first time ever I heard the internal fan come on. The Onk has a few more inches of clearance as it sits in a different spot on my rack.

My 2 channel PS Audio 200cx is what I'm referring too. It's a beast at 70lbs and is superb but it does run hot....quite hot. Strangely enough my Ps Audio 200c runs cool as a cucumber in the same rack.

Oh and my rack is open front back and sides

Emlyn

Ok, I didn't see the amp in your signature. Yes, the 200CX is biased to run in Class A and will put out a lot of heat. Same as older Krell amps, it's the nature of the beast.

slk55amg

My Emotiva XPA5 is cool to the touch after running 6-8 hours a day.

BlueFox

Heat is the enemy of electronics. It might work while hot, but the life expectancy can be shortened by the heat.

SCompRacer

Make S'mores!

Emlyn

On the 200CX all of the heat sinks are inside the cabinet. In addition, half of the decent sized heat sinks are situated in the middle of the amp rather than on the outer edges. That will of course make the amp very hot in the middle of the top which is unusual. What is inside is really pretty simple for an amp. Big capacitors and big output devices in what looks like a dual mono design. The thing looks rugged! But, it may be a good idea to give it 5 or 6 inches clearance above it because of the physical layout internally if it is just run with passive ventilation.

Since the amp has been putting out power for 30 years I guess there is a slight chance something is wrong with it, but based on its design it sounds like it is doing what it is supposed to.

F1nut

It's sad to see so many people worried about their amplifier running hot these days. When did this become some sort of no-no? Pure Class A and Class A biased A/B amplifiers run hot even at idle. These amplifiers use components rated for the temperatures they will see. Heat doesn't kill them, they actually perform better at those temperatures.

If it doesn't get hot it ain't worth squat.

afterburnt

You could damn near fry an egg on my old Emo monoblocks that have a class A/AB switch. Setting them to AB was a little cooler but not by much. They were great space heaters in the winter. Class A waste half of its power as heat so it's normal to be hot.

F1nut

Onkyo TX NR 5008 modified by The Upgrade Company
Oppo BDP 93 modified by The Upgrade Company

Out of curiosity have you ever looked inside to see what they did?

mikeyb128

F1nut wrote: »

Onkyo TX NR 5008 modified by The Upgrade Company
Oppo BDP 93 modified by The Upgrade Company

Out of curiosity have you ever looked inside to see what they did?

Lots of tin foil and hockey tape.

jayman_1975

F1nut wrote: »

Onkyo TX NR 5008 modified by The Upgrade Company
Oppo BDP 93 modified by The Upgrade Company

Out of curiosity have you ever looked inside to see what they did?

Shielding.....lots of shielding as well as some Upgraded caps and a few other things. They use a material that blocks Rf interference therefor making them run more like separate components. I get that they still share one power supply so they do have their limits. But I gotta tell ya I was blown away by how good this Onkyo is, I used to own an Arcam c1 preamp, Arcam cd37 CD player, Arcam Av9 pre/pro, and a pair of Arcam P1 mono blocks as well as a P38 stereo amp. It was and excellent system. This Upgraded Onk along with the Upgraded Oppo 93 is as good or maybe even better. I let the Onk do the decoding for movies and music via hdmi and I haven't had a better system. Just for giggles I purchased a Schiit Bifrost DAC and tried it in the mix and it never improved a thing so I sold it.

I got an itch a bit ago and threw these PS Audio amps into the equation and there is indeed some improvement. There is a silky liquid sound in the top end that I didn't have with just the Onk. But if you read the reviews on the 200c or Cx you will see what they were in their day and even still to this day are quite an amp. The only issue is the humm that they have. It's quite faint but it's there. Goes away when the music starts but I have been so used to a dead black background with the Onk, spoiled even maybe. Also the heat that comes off the 200cx. Even when idle. The 200c doesn't even get warm. They both humm but they both sound excellent otherwise.

Hey I know that The Upgrade company is very secretive about what they do and they will actually void your warranty if you break the seal on the back. But wouldn't you know it my gear is past the warranty period, is anyone interested in seeing inside either the Onk or the Oppo? Or both?

jayman_1975

F1nut wrote: »

It's sad to see so many people worried about their amplifier running hot these days. When did this become some sort of no-no? Pure Class A and Class A biased A/B amplifiers run hot even at idle. These amplifiers use components rated for the temperatures they will see. Heat doesn't kill them, they actually perform better at those temperatures.

If it doesn't get hot it ain't worth squat.

Ps Audio actually recommends leaving the amp on all the time or warming it up for a half hour before listening.

motorhead43026

I upped the bias on my HCA-1500 so the heat sinks run in the 116 (122 degrees is max) degree area. This equates to 17mv. The bias was at like 7-8mv and the thing would not even get warm. This made a improvement in the sound overall.

Of course it will never rival a class A in heat.

I do have at lease 6" above for venting, and it's in an open rack.

F1nut

Here's some pics of his work. Tin foil, hockey tape and blue goop.

motorhead43026

^^This is why they don't want you opening it......lol.

What do they charge for that, like a grand?

jayman_1975

F1nut wrote: »

Here's some pics of his work. Tin foil, hockey tape and blue goop.

Yeah whatever it is they use it took an $1800 HT receiver and a $400 universa player and made it out do a $7500+ two channel system not counting the cost of speakers and cables. That first pic has got a lot of stuff wrapped to isolate signals from each other. That's probably why it does so well. Zero interference. Not sure what that second pic is of.

F1nut

In the first picture that is hockey tape, it has no shielding capabilities.

The second picture is a pre amp, IIRC.

jayman_1975

There is something that's wrapped around to hold the material in place yep. I played hockey for the first 18 hrs of my life and just by the pic that doesn't look like hockey tape to me. I'm gonna open mine up and see what's doin.

mikeyb128

jayman_1975 wrote: »

I played hockey for the first 18 hrs of my life and just by the pic that doesn't look like hockey tape to me.

I don't even remember the first 18 hours of mine. Barely remember the first 18 years lol

jayman_1975

mikeyb128 wrote: »

jayman_1975 wrote: »

I played hockey for the first 18 hrs of my life and just by the pic that doesn't look like hockey tape to me.

I don't even remember the first 18 hours of mine. Barely remember the first 18 years lol

Hahaha. Good eye. 18yrs it should have read.

skrol

Try giving it more breathing room and check the temps. I have a modded Parasound (got instructions from Mr. Curl himself in biasing higher) and it ran hot in my rack with about 4" above. I was going to re-bias but then I took it out of the rack, nothing above or beside, and it runs cool.

nooshinjohn

jayman_1975 wrote: »

Yeah whatever it is they use it took an $1800 HT receiver and a $400 universa player and made it out do a $7500+ two channel system......
I played hockey for the first 18 hrs of my life and just by the pic that doesn't look like hockey tape to me......

Hahaha. Good eye. 18yrs it should have read.

You must have suffered some hearing loss then...

jayman_1975

Funny you mention that. I have had two hearing tests in the past 7 yrs and both came back with normal results. But it could be that I don't know what to listen for I guess. I just know what I hear and what I like.

F1nut

I'd like to see inside pics of your gear.

jayman_1975

Sounds good. I'm up for an adventure. Gimme a few days.

F1nut

Excellent!