cables or recording flaw..

msg

DernyL, looks like your Sonos has a digital out. Any way you can get a DAC in the mix, to rule out the Sonos doing the conversion? What about the front panel MP3 input from high resolution file from a smartphone?

Did you mention before that you do or don't hear this distortion when you connect a PC to the USB input? As I understand, this is the only input that uses the amp's DAC?

dannylightning

msg wrote: »

DernyL, looks like your Sonos has a digital out. Any way you can get a DAC in the mix, to rule out the Sonos doing the conversion? What about the front panel MP3 input from high resolution file from a smartphone?

Did you mention before that you do or don't hear this distortion when you connect a PC to the USB input? As I understand, this is the only input that uses the amp's DAC?

DernyL ?? are you talking to me...

i only hear the distortion with the king cobras, why i am hearing the distortion with that set of cables is what they are trying to figure out..

i do not currently own they type of cable i would need to use the DAC that is in my amplifier.

dannylightning

so my buddy seems to think its not actually distortion i am hearing.. he seems to think my set up is overly detailed and and pulling details out of the overdriven guitar which is making the overdrive sound unnatural and some sounds overly aggressive.

he seems to think that cable just makes the stereo too revealing for anything but high quality recordings, he advice is either 1. ditch all of the lower quality recordings or 2. stick the evergreen on and leave it be. i think i am gonna stick with option 2.

he also agrees that he was not able to tell any difference in sound between he sonos and the CD player.

im pretty sure the cable is just not a good match for my stereo.

msg

Yeah, Russ gave you a new nickname. Didn't you see it? Lol

Could be as your buddy says, but it seems like you got a bunch of different stuff going on at once right now. I'd try to rule out the Sonos DAC at this point, just as a possibility, get it out of the mix. I think with your setup, the best way to test this may be to use the 651a USB input from your notebook since all you need is that USB cable - did your 651 not come with one? Got one from your old DAC Magic Plus? Can you borrow one possibly from one of your buddies with a USB DAC? Alternatively, and possibly less ideal, try the mp3 input on the front of the 651, which would be counting on whatever quality digital to analog conversion your phone is capable of to its 3.5mm stereo out/headphones jack.

Does this make sense?
Pretty sure that using the analog outs on the Sonos is using it as your DAC as well. @tonyb uses Sonos as well, but he may be handing off to a separate DAC for the conversion before hitting his pre. Tony, any input here?

Looks like three options there on the Sonos digital outs - USB, coax, or optical?

dannylightning

msg wrote: »

Yeah, Russ gave you a new nickname. Didn't you see it? Lol

Could be as your buddy says, but it seems like you got a bunch of different stuff going on at once right now. I'd try to rule out the Sonos DAC at this point, just as a possibility, get it out of the mix. I think with your setup, the best way to test this may be to use the 651a USB input from your notebook since all you need is that USB cable - did your 651 not come with one? Got one from your old DAC Magic Plus? Can you borrow one possibly from one of your buddies with a USB DAC? Alternatively, and possibly less ideal, try the mp3 input on the front of the 651, which would be counting on whatever quality digital to analog conversion your phone is capable of to its 3.5mm stereo out/headphones jack.

Does this make sense?
Pretty sure that using the analog outs on the Sonos is using it as your DAC as well. @tonyb uses Sonos as well, but he may be handing off to a separate DAC for the conversion before hitting his pre. Tony, any input here?

Looks like three options there on the Sonos digital outs - USB, coax, or optical?

ok.. i get the nick name now lol.

when using the CD player the sonos DAC was not in use and i got the same result with the king cobra cable.. i only hear this when using the king cobra cable.

yes if you are using the analog outs on a piece of equipment your using the DAC built into to that piece of equipment

i really don't understand why you think i should try to hook my compute or phone up to the stereo. i once had a nice USB cable to hook my computer to the dac in my stereo but i sold it. i cant use optical or coaxial for the amps built in DAC only USB.

msg

Danny, also, echoing what Tom said re: the WiFi signal. I was looking into Sonos a while back talking to @txcoastal1, and thought the first unit at least had to be ethernet connected? Or is that just when building the Sonos mesh for syncing multiple units? At any rate, try to get either the Sonos DAC or the Sonos altogether, out of the picture and test with the same high resolution tracks delivered to your amp by different method. Just to rule it out.

msg

dannylightning wrote: »

ok.. i get the nick name now lol.

when using the CD player the sonos DAC was not in use and i got the same result with the king cobra cable.. i only hear this when using the king cobra cable.

yes if you are using the analog outs on a piece of equipment your using the DAC built into to that piece of equipment

i really don't understand why you think i should try to hook my compute or phone up to the stereo. i once had a nice USB cable to hook my computer to the dac in my stereo but i sold it. i cant use optical or coaxial for the amps built in DAC only USB.

Okay, wrote the above before I saw this.
Looks like you've already got the Sonos ruled out. The USB to 651 was just an idea for getting music to your amp. I missed the part about the CD player, which accomplishes the same purpose of ruling out the Sonos and/or its DAC.

recoveryone

This is just a suggestion, but when I had issues with my 2 channel setup getting electrical feed back I used a power conditioner to clean everything up.

dannylightning

msg wrote: »

dannylightning wrote: »

ok.. i get the nick name now lol.

when using the CD player the sonos DAC was not in use and i got the same result with the king cobra cable.. i only hear this when using the king cobra cable.

yes if you are using the analog outs on a piece of equipment your using the DAC built into to that piece of equipment

i really don't understand why you think i should try to hook my compute or phone up to the stereo. i once had a nice USB cable to hook my computer to the dac in my stereo but i sold it. i cant use optical or coaxial for the amps built in DAC only USB.

Okay, wrote the above before I saw this.
Looks like you've already got the Sonos ruled out. The USB to 651 was just an idea for getting music to your amp. I missed the part about the CD player, which accomplishes the same purpose of ruling out the Sonos and/or its DAC.

got you.. i though you cought the part about the CD player.

recoveryone wrote: »

This is just a suggestion, but when I had issues with my 2 channel setup getting electrical feed back I used a power conditioner to clean everything up.

how do you know if your getting electrical feed back ? dirty power could be a possibility,

dannylightning

if it were dirty power why do i not hear the issue on higher quality recordings ?? if that were the case i would hear it on all recordings right ??

recoveryone

nothing is 100%, so I am not going to give quotes, but since you have checked every other part of the equation, this should be considered also.

dannylightning

recoveryone wrote: »

nothing is 100%, so I am not going to give quotes, but since you have checked every other part of the equation, this should be considered also.

thanks. i probably should get a power conditioner some time soon..

afterburnt

dannylightning wrote: »

recoveryone wrote: »

nothing is 100%, so I am not going to give quotes, but since you have checked every other part of the equation, this should be considered also.

thanks. i probably should get a power conditioner some time soon..

Buy this now! Good price.
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B000SXWGAQ/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A2PCHXSYSMTA8S&psc=1

msg

I use Panamax too, and that unit is pretty robust for power management features (trigger, switched outlets, etc), though I've had it from the get-go, so can't really say what it brings to the table, and how effective it is at conditioning.

If you're gonna head down the power conditioning road, for the more serious 2ch refinements you seem to seek, maybe consider a used PS Audio UPC 200? And maybe an AC-3 cable at the least? But then you'll need power cables for your components, too, presuming they're IEC. You can probably find power supply upgrade for your Sonos, too. Not sure what changes you'll find here in this leg. It's kinda like a Planet of the Apes leap of faith. You might find your system to be ever increasingly resolving and revealing even more of what you don't care to hear. What's the trick to the getting this detail and resolution, as well as smooth, full warm lively fidelity? (intended to be a bit rhetorical, though Jesse will say MIT/eff vinyl)

I'd see if you can get ears on a warmer set of capable ICs first if you really want to chase down that distortion, or simply to confirm that it's in the recording. Then consider how big a deal it really is to you, because next steps will be rabbit holey for sure, and there can be a lot of madness down there sometimes seemingly unwittingly drawn into exploring all these sub-tunnels, wondering when the last time was that you actually saw light/listened to music for pleasure. Next thing you know, you're a hoarder!

dannylightning

400 bucks is not a good price. cant afford it at the moment. i am poor. still got to pay off the credit cared bill for the 703 before i get anything else

tonyb

I think what your trying to do here is narrow down the "blame" for the distortion your hearing. Instead, look at things as a whole, because everything in the chain matters.

Imho, the lower end of AQ cables do have some brightness to them. Farther up their series you go the better it gets. Don't rule out other brands or mixing in other brands in conjunction.

Don't use the Sonos build in dac for anything other than background music. Putting a separate dac on it really helps the quality of sound.

The more revealing your system gets, the more flaws in it will be presented....including the flaws in recordings.

Ok, strapped for cash ? No biggie....save your cereal box tops and sell the stuff you don't use. Everyone has junk hanging around collecting dust, boxed up in an attic/garage.

You like a wider, warmer sound stage....then you need MIT cables, used of course as retail is way expensive. Teac dacs are not expensive and rest on the side of slightly warmer than neutral. Take your time, save your coin, it's not a race....just wait for the deals to pop up and be ready to pounce.

dannylightning

tonyb wrote: »

I think what your trying to do here is narrow down the "blame" for the distortion your hearing. Instead, look at things as a whole, because everything in the chain matters.

Imho, the lower end of AQ cables do have some brightness to them. Farther up their series you go the better it gets. Don't rule out other brands or mixing in other brands in conjunction.

Don't use the Sonos build in dac for anything other than background music. Putting a separate dac on it really helps the quality of sound.

The more revealing your system gets, the more flaws in it will be presented....including the flaws in recordings.

Ok, strapped for cash ? No biggie....save your cereal box tops and sell the stuff you don't use. Everyone has junk hanging around collecting dust, boxed up in an attic/garage.

You like a wider, warmer sound stage....then you need MIT cables, used of course as retail is way expensive. Teac dacs are not expensive and rest on the side of slightly warmer than neutral. Take your time, save your coin, it's not a race....just wait for the deals to pop up and be ready to pounce.

getting a DAC is on my list of things i want to get eventually.. i had a Cambridge DAC and hated it very sterile and boring sounding.. that jolida tube dac III looks interesting.. and i guess a power conditioner would be nice to have too at some point.

i was looking at the MIT shotgun S3 cables but they were going for some crazy money used. like 800 bucks or something.. someone was telling me if i go with a lower line MIT than the shotgun S3 i may not like the.. i saw some of the new MIT style line SL6 interconnects used for a nice price.. not sure of those are any good or not.

i like rock and rool. i like the guitar to sound warm, and i do like a wide sound stage.

tonyb

You can get MIT shotgun S3 IC's for 200 bucks....you just have to wait until they pop up. Sold mine I think for 185....buy used, don't look at retail pricing.....for any cable brand.

You have a lot of things on your wish list, save the coin, sell stuff your not using, be ready when a deal presents itself. You'll get there.

dannylightning

tonyb wrote: »

You can get MIT shotgun S3 IC's for 200 bucks....you just have to wait until they pop up. Sold mine I think for 185....buy used, don't look at retail pricing.....for any cable brand.

You have a lot of things on your wish list, save the coin, sell stuff your not using, be ready when a deal presents itself. You'll get there.

i see one pair of used shotgun S1's going for 600 some bucks on ebay. last time i looked at ebay they wree all crazy expensive for the S3's

i found some S3's on some other site where you could sell your audio equipment and the used S3's were all crazy expensive.. not sure why theyre asking so much for the used cables. i would like to try a nice set of MIT interconnects at some point when i get some extra money and i can find a good deal on them.

i dont like to keep much stuff i don't use around so i always sell stuff off i am not using so i don't really have anything i can sell off. i do have a extra set of speakers but i might get 100 bucks if i sell them.

mikeyb128

Don't ever buy MIT on eBay. You risk counterfeit cables, and if they are genuine the prices are astronomical.

dannylightning

thanks. good to know not to check ebay..

i think i have fixed the problem. i got new speaker wire not long ago and i terminated them some some banana plugs, today i went to tighten down the set screws on the bananas again since usually when you first tighten a set screw on a wire it can settle in after a few days and need a second tightening. well they did loosen up a bit after tightening them again i have not heard the issue.

msg

Good to post up here in the WTB section if you're looking for MIT.
A few of the members move some from time to time. Also keep and eye on the For Sale thread.

Maybe US Audio Mart or Audiogon, but best deals here, most likely.

Interesting on the loose speaker connector.
So, still using the King Cobras?

recoveryone

2 cents to add on a power conditioner, check around on ebay and other sites, you can get a good one for under $100.

afterburnt

dannylightning wrote: »

400 bucks is not a good price. cant afford it at the moment. i am poor. still got to pay off the credit cared bill for the 703 before i get anything else

Sorry but it's $550 most other places. It is also a form of insurace. Too bad you cant swing it now.

BlueFox

Let me add my two cents about power and power conditioning. In my mind, that is where sonic improvements begin. I have spent a lot on dedicated 20 amp lines, power cables, and power conditioners, and each one has been a very positive impact on sound. You have absolutely no idea about the amount on grunge on your power until it is gone. It amazes me when I think the power can not get any cleaner, and then it does. I just went through this last Friday when I upgraded my Cyclops v2 power conditioners on my amps to Denali 2000T power conditioners. I was not expecting much, and was just amazed at the improvement.

dannylightning

BlueFox wrote: »

Let me add my two cents about power and power conditioning. In my mind, that is where sonic improvements begin. I have spent a lot on dedicated 20 amp lines, power cables, and power conditioners, and each one has been a very positive impact on sound. You have absolutely no idea about the amount on grunge on your power until it is gone. It amazes me when I think the power can not get any cleaner, and then it does. I just went through this last Friday when I upgraded my Cyclops v2 power conditioners on my amps to Denali 2000T power conditioners. I was not expecting much, and was just amazed at the improvement.

thanks. good info.. sounds like something i should try out some time.. ill have to get a more basic model compared to what you have but im sure the basic ones can help

Upstatemax

dannylightning wrote: »

thanks. good info.. sounds like something i should try out some time.. ill have to get a more basic model compared to what you have but im sure the basic ones can help

The more basic ones can help. The Furman in my 2ch rig has been great.

mikeyb128

Upstatemax wrote: »

dannylightning wrote: »

thanks. good info.. sounds like something i should try out some time.. ill have to get a more basic model compared to what you have but im sure the basic ones can help

The more basic ones can help. The Furman in my 2ch rig has been great.

I agree, and you don't have to spend a fortune. Furman has a nice compact conditioner.

https://www.amazon.com/Furman-AC-215A-Conditioner-Auto-Resetting-Protection/dp/B003PJ6NPO

I picked mine up for 99 bucks new in box. I ran a power bar off this and lowered noise floor, and soundstage grew considerably. A nice budget option for sure.

msg

What's a power bar, Mike?

mikeyb128

msg wrote: »

What's a power bar, Mike?

I used this