Hybrid vehicles

mdaudioguy

Who's got one? We have 2 Ford Fusion Hybrids - my 2013 and my wife's 2014. They've been great cars. We like them, because they're pretty darn efficient and not as small as some other models. This resurgence of EV talk had me wondering who else here might have experience with a hybrid. I sometimes wish I'd bought the plugin version (Fusion Energi), but my economy has been so good (49.9 MPG), that I don't think it would have significantly benefited​ me. BTW, my economy is probably on the far right side of the bell curve, due to many reasons, mostly driving style and the nature of my commute. My wife's MPG is probably around 41-42.

mhardy6647

025a by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

Mrs. H had an 05 Escape Hybrid, which she loved to the tune of 246k miles.
She, somewhat grudgingly replaced it with a 16 CR-V last summer. The CR-V is, of course, not a hybrid, but gets nearly the same mileage as the Escape Hybrid (as I type this it is sitting at 30.1 mpg average; see photo below for the Escape's average mileage on its Last Day). The CR-V is more comfortable, more poweful, quieter and altogether a nicer vehicle. It also cost the same (in 2016 dollars) as the Escape did in December 2004.

002 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

I/we do like hybrids (and we looked at the RAV-4 hybrid) but we're not in that mode for the time being.

Nightfall

My best tank of gas was drafting a semi on the way from AZ back to CO at 65mph, I got 72mpg without batteries. Without anything breaking the wind it's more like 60mpg.

My only point is if this was achievable in 1995 on straight gas why can't we still do it or better? Why do cars with electric motors and batteries do worse?

mdaudioguy

Nightfall wrote: »

My best tank of gas was drafting a semi on the way from AZ back to CO at 65mph, I got 72mpg without batteries. Without anything breaking the wind it's more like 60mpg.

My only point is if this was achievable in 1995 on straight gas why can't we still do it or better? Why do cars with electric motors and batteries do worse?

What kind of car did that in 1995? I've heard stories of little Hondas that got 50+, but I also thought they were too little for me to be comfortable driving.

rpf65

Cant see me ever buying one.

Live in a rural area, haul and pull stuff with my pick-up. Get about 20 mpg on hwy and 18 mpg in the city. Then again I drive my work truck home, so only put about 6 or 7 thousand miles a year on my personal truck.

Fuel economy isn't a big issue with me. If a vehicle is a fashion statement, I prefer V-8's.

mdaudioguy

Not many mid-size gas-only cars get 40+ combined MPG, today or ever.

mdaudioguy

And don't anyone think I started this to proselytize about hybrids. I don't care if you think they're cool or not.

mdaudioguy

rpf65 wrote: »

Cant see me ever buying one.

Live in a rural area, haul and pull stuff with my pick-up. Get about 20 mpg on hwy and 18 mpg in the city. Then again I drive my work truck home, so only put about 6 or 7 thousand miles a year on my personal truck.

Fuel economy isn't a big issue with me. If a vehicle is a fashion statement, I prefer V-8's.

Yeah, I probably wouldn't have one in that situation either. Mine isn't a statement, but rather an economical way to get to and from work comfortably and efficiently. I also have an F-150 that roars when I mash the accelerator. But that has its own, separate purpose.

K_M

rpf65 wrote: »

Cant see me ever buying one.

Live in a rural area, haul and pull stuff with my pick-up. Get about 20 mpg on hwy and 18 mpg in the city. Then again I drive my work truck home, so only put about 6 or 7 thousand miles a year on my personal truck.

Fuel economy isn't a big issue with me. If a vehicle is a fashion statement, I prefer V-8's.

I think the O.P. asked "Who has a hybrid car, and has experience with them", not "Who hates Hybrid cars"

K_M

Toyota Prius here, at first thought was a bit odd, but love it now.
In florida easily get over 50 mpg regularly.

It will easily do 90 MPH with barely any wind noise!

mdaudioguy

K_M wrote: »

I think the O.P. asked "Who has a hybrid car, and has experience with them", not "Who hates Hybrid cars"

I didn't take it that way at all.

Nightfall

mdaudioguy wrote: »

What kind of car did that in 1995? I've heard stories of little Hondas that got 50+, but I also thought they were too little for me to be comfortable driving.

Honda Civic VX. I've had people over 6 foot tall in the passenger seat without their knees at the dashboard or hitting their head on the roof. Drove with a pair of SDA 2B's side by side on their backs with room to spare. It's certainly not big but it's bigger than you'd expect inside. It's small in width though, there's not a lot of separation between driver and passenger, definitely more separation and back seat space in a Fusion.

mdaudioguy

Funny story - When I bought my 2013, Ford had been marketing them as 47/47/47, city/highway/combined MPGs. I always thought this was unfortunate, since it gave people the idea that no matter where or how you drive the car, it's gonna get 47 MPG. And, of course, most people did not achieve that at all. Ford eventually changed the EPA sticker to something around 43. To compensate those of us who had purchased our cars before the ratings were lowered, Ford sent a $750 check, which I happily deposited despite exceeding the original numbers.

Jstas

Suzuki Swift, Chevy Sprint and Geo Metro all managed 50+ MPG on the highway. There was a version of the Swift that we never got here that would manage 60+ MPG.

There's also the Honda Civic Coupe HF (Honda Civic CRX) that managed 50+ MPG as well as the Honda Civic HB VX.

All were available anywhere from about 1984-1998



Also, does a supercharged pickup truck count as a hybrid?

F1nut

Sure does John.

They coal roll Prius' around here. Cracks me up.

vmaxer

K_M wrote: »

Toyota Prius here, at first thought was a bit odd, but love it now.
In florida easily get over 50 mpg regularly.

It will easily do 90 MPH with barely any wind noise!

And there you go again.

Get a life please.

BlueFox

Nightfall wrote: »

My best tank of gas was drafting a semi on the way from AZ back to CO at 65mph, I got 72mpg without batteries. Without anything breaking the wind it's more like 60mpg.

If I were driving the wind would have been broken.

I am in the market for a new car, and my mind is all over the spectrum right now, between pure electric to haul a$$ coupes. I like hybrids because you can easily drive across country in one, and at some point I will be doing that again.

rpf65

K_M wrote: »

rpf65 wrote: »

Cant see me ever buying one.

Live in a rural area, haul and pull stuff with my pick-up. Get about 20 mpg on hwy and 18 mpg in the city. Then again I drive my work truck home, so only put about 6 or 7 thousand miles a year on my personal truck.

Fuel economy isn't a big issue with me. If a vehicle is a fashion statement, I prefer V-8's.

I think the O.P. asked "Who has a hybrid car, and has experience with them", not "Who hates Hybrid cars"

Never said I hated hybrids. Some people buy a vehicle as a status symbol, be it a hybrid, pick-up, sports car, or luxury.

The last car I owned was a Toyota Celica, because I drove 80 miles round trip to work. The gas savings alone, compared to the pick-up almost paid the monthly payment. I think gas was $2.50 per gallon when I bought it, and figured I was paying $50 per month in actual price differences.

In that situation fuel economy was the deciding factor. Nothing wrong with that line of reasoning for anyone. I put about 40k or so miles a year on my company vehicle. They pay for everything, so again mpg doesn't matter.

I live in a rural area, in Texas. The stereotypes apply. I cut down trees, and haul them to the burn pile in my truck. If something breaks at the house, I fix it, except roofing. I hate roofing. I'll gladly pay somebody to re-roof my house. A small leak I don't mind, but that's it.

So even though I live in Texas, where pick-ups can be a fashion statement to many people, it is a utility vehicle to me.

Same applies to hybrids. In some areas, to own a hybrid is seen as a good thing. It's a status symbol or a fashion statement. Some, not all people buy them just to look like they are like everybody else. Whatever the reason. Conservation, ecologically sound, or whatever else you can think of.

My fashion statement being a V-8 is again because of utility. The manufacturers may say, and it very well could be true, that there high tech V-6 engines could do the job of my V-8. I'm an old school stubborn son of a, and am more comfortable with a V-8. Just simply trust that they can do the job I want them to do, when I want them to do it.

I've driven a few hybrid vehicles, and prefer the performance of the gas versions. So I really can't see me buying a hybrid in the for see able future. They don't fit my life style, and I'm not vain enough to care about fashion statements.

I apologize for high jacking your thread, but I get annoyed when I'm accused of making a statement that I never made.

mdaudioguy

rpf65 wrote: »

I apologize for high jacking your thread, but I get annoyed when I'm accused of making a statement that I never made.

Not a hijack as I read it; just further expansion of your point. Yep, you never said - or implied - hatred of the subject.

tonyb

Just make sure if you do get one, have one....you have a warranty. Once that warranty is gone, your going to find out just how expensive Hybrids are to fix.

Same can be said for any complicated system. Remember those self adjusting air shock systems of the earlier cars like the Q45 or Lincolns...cost ya a fortune to fix those things. A mechanic friend of mine tells me the Hybrids are just hard to diagnose to begin with when you start having problems.

This is why the simple designs of economy gas cars still hold value like Honda's and Toyota's. If I ever had a hybrid, as soon as the warranty was over, so would that car for me. Sell it, trade it in on another....but I'd never own one without a warranty attached to it.

mhardy6647

The aforementioned Escape was very trouble free -- for the aforementioned 246,616 miles. We figured the batteries or the CVT would die and render it not worthy of repair, but it was in fact endemic Ford structural rust (in the vicinity of the rear axle -- you can see a little external rust on the fender in the photo I posted) that rendered it not worth further investment last summer.

As an aside, my 2000 Ford Focus ZX-3 succumbed to a similar cancer a couple of years back -- we'd passed it along to our daughter & son-in-law. The ZX-3 had 250k on it when the rear axle basically lost its attachment to the rest of the car

nooshinjohn

K_M wrote: »

I think the O.P. asked "Who has a hybrid car, and has experience with them", not "Who hates Hybrid cars"

Why do you need to crap in every thread you go to?

K_M

vmaxer wrote: »

K_M wrote: »

Toyota Prius here, at first thought was a bit odd, but love it now.
In florida easily get over 50 mpg regularly.

It will easily do 90 MPH with barely any wind noise!

And there you go again.

Get a life please.

Your comment makes zero sense.

vmaxer

K_M wrote: »

vmaxer wrote: »

K_M wrote: »

Toyota Prius here, at first thought was a bit odd, but love it now.
In florida easily get over 50 mpg regularly.

It will easily do 90 MPH with barely any wind noise!

And there you go again.

Get a life please.

Your comment makes zero sense.

Yep

Jim Shearer

I have a 2014 Prius. Right now the dashboard meter reads 56.7 mpg, but experience tells me that when I fill the tank, the real (calculated from miles and gallons) number will be about 5% less. The on-the-fly calculation is rather complex, so I feel that the numbers shown on the dash are a surprisingly close to reality.

When we lived in semi-rural upstate NY, I could get close to 60 mpg (real) in local driving in summer and 57-58 mpg on the highway w/ A/C running.

Now in suburban PA where there are hills to contend with, overall (winter & summer) it works out to around 50 mpg, which happens to match the EPA numbers on the window sticker.

I hear many folks disparage Toyotas as bland, no fun cars. I don't care. What I want is a car that's reasonably priced, inexpensive to drive, durable, and comfortable for me. When my wife traded in her 2004 RAV 4 (over 300,000 miles on it--figured it was time to let it go before it needed a new clutch) for another RAV 4, I let her talk me into trading in my 2001 Echo, even though it only had 179,000 miles on it. The only thing I miss from the Echo is the standard transmission--still feels unnatural to not shift gears myself. My only complaint is that the fun colors are only available on the Prius-C. I really wanted Habinero Orange; had to settle for red.

Emlyn

Nightfall wrote: »

My only point is if this was achievable in 1995 on straight gas why can't we still do it or better? Why do cars with electric motors and batteries do worse?

Curb weights are way up on American market vehicles. A 1995 Civic could weigh as little as 2,040 lbs while a 2017 Civic could weigh as much as 3,000. Cars are larger and have more safety equipment, power seats, and electronics. The curb weight on a current Toyota Prius hybrid is just above 3000 lbs too. Also, people tend to be heavier now. Engine outputs are also far higher than they used to be to haul around all that extra weight.

In the early 1990s getting a car with 300+ horsepower was in the Toyota Supra sports car arena. Now, it's pretty common for four door sedans and SUVs to be getting close to or exceeding that. In my case, it's a small SUV with a supercharged engine making 350+ horsepower. But, I don't care much about fuel economy as I don't have a long commute. If I did, I would consider a hybrid vehicle.

I have not owned a hybrid but have ridden in many different kinds that are used as taxi cabs in the last few years. They do great in city traffic and also seem to do ok at highway speeds once they get up to speed. I have been impressed by the Camry hybrid compared to a regular one.

Nightfall

Emlyn wrote: »

Nightfall wrote: »

My only point is if this was achievable in 1995 on straight gas why can't we still do it or better? Why do cars with electric motors and batteries do worse?

Curb weights are way up on American market vehicles. A 1995 Civic could weigh as little as 2,040 lbs while a 2017 Civic could weigh as much as 3,000. Cars are larger and have more safety equipment, power seats, and electronics. The curb weight on a current Toyota Prius hybrid is just above 3000 lbs too. Also, people tend to be heavier now. Engine outputs are also far higher than they used to be to haul around all that extra weight.

I get that and it's true but nobody even tries anymore. The CRX HF and later the Civic VX were built exclusively with gas mileage and cost as the number one goal. With the popularity of the Prius you'd think there's a market for a car with manual seats, simple stereo, low weight, with an efficient gas only engine that would be way cheaper than any hybrid to buy and maintain. Not even to mention that the batteries in the hybrids are made and shipped all over the world increasing the amount of pollution and cost before the car even hits the road.

http://www.pdegraaf.com/articles/prius.html

When you pool together all the combined energy it takes to drive and Build a Toyota Prius, the flagship car of energy fanatics, it takes almost 50 percent more energy than a Hummer - the Prius's arch nemesis.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqY8FUDcATE

Emlyn

In my market today, I could buy a 2017 Nissan Versa for $9,900 or a 2017 Toyota Prius Two for $23,000. The cheapest hybrid vehicle is going to be about double the cost of a Versa. The Versa is about as cheap as cars come these days. It does have AC but a 5 speed manual and hand crank roll down windows. Both the Versa and Prius Two are rated at 39 mpg on the highway. Put another way, the price difference between a cheapo Versa and the cheapest Prius is about $13,000 or 5,200 gallons of regular gas or 202,000 miles of driving if they do indeed get the same fuel economy. Of course, a Versa may not make it that far.

To me, hybrids are not a cheap transportation option but primarily a lifestyle choice.

nooshinjohn

Funny they didn't mention the Jag there... I get 32mpg freeway out of that wonderful 4.2 litre V8, and get a 550 mile range to a tank of petrol. I am quite pleased with my big cat, thank you very much.

mhardy6647

nbrowser wrote: »

mhardy6647 wrote: »

The aforementioned Escape was very trouble free -- for the aforementioned 246,616 miles. We figured the batteries or the CVT would die and render it not worthy of repair, but it was in fact endemic Ford structural rust (in the vicinity of the rear axle -- you can see a little external rust on the fender in the photo I posted) that rendered it not worth further investment last summer.

As an aside, my 2000 Ford Focus ZX-3 succumbed to a similar cancer a couple of years back -- we'd passed it along to our daughter & son-in-law. The ZX-3 had 250k on it when the rear axle basically lost its attachment to the rest of the car

hrm we've had to fix a non starting Escape Hybrid...but it had nothing to do with the computer, battery or electrical system. Seems Escapes have a lousy gearbox that connects the ignition cylinder to the ignition switch. It gets loose with use over time. Yes there's gears between the key and switch, also affects the gas only versions so it's not a Hybrid issue alone. Easy fix for the Escape although it requires steering wheel removal. Other than that, the Escape Hybrid, was a solid vehicle.

Interesting -- we and our son-in-law's parents both had 05 Escape Hybrids (for a long time) and didn't experience that, nor had I heard about it until now!

Both family's succumbed to rust around the rear suspension, which is a common Escape malady with which we were familiar. The quote was $4k to restore. Heh.

Glad the ignition was an easy fix!

I should mention that the in-laws also had a Fusion Hybrid (forget the year, maybe 2013, give or take). Last year, it developed -- interesting -- brake system issues. They have ditched it and fairly recently got a Chevy Volt which they really like.

K_M

Emlyn wrote: »

In my market today, I could buy a 2017 Nissan Versa for $9,900 or a 2017 Toyota Prius Two for $23,000. The cheapest hybrid vehicle is going to be about double the cost of a Versa. The Versa is about as cheap as cars come these days. It does have AC but a 5 speed manual and hand crank roll down windows. Both the Versa and Prius Two are rated at 39 mpg on the highway. Put another way, the price difference between a cheapo Versa and the cheapest Prius is about $13,000 or 5,200 gallons of regular gas or 202,000 miles of driving if they do indeed get the same fuel economy. Of course, a Versa may not make it that far.

To me, hybrids are not a cheap transportation option but primarily a lifestyle choice.

Yes, but in real life driving, my Prius, will easily get Far more on the highway, well over 50 mpg usually.
I agree a stripper Versa is cheaper overall, but not nearly as refined or quick, or roomy or quiet or in fact, barely comparable overall.