LSiM 707 worth upgrade from LSi25?

mpitogo

LSiM 707 worth upgrade from LSi25?

I'm incredibly pleased with my LSi25 which replaced older RT55 and PSW450 2.1. Speakers make up the bulk of what we hear so I'm always inclined to upgrade. I'm currently using a McIntosh MA5200 to power the LSi25. Sources are basic turntable, CD transport using McIntosh DAC and Airplay (spdif) from iTunes.

Since the LSi25 have the built in sub amp no concern on power. I've read reviews the LSiM 707 is great but will need power. Would 100W tweeter/mid and 150W bass be enough?

F1nut

LSiM 707 worth upgrade from LSi25?

Yes, but the 705 is the better speaker.

Gatecrasher

Why is the 705 better?

mpitogo

So I take it "yes" to both.. upgrade and power.

nooshinjohn

Upgrade, but I would go with more power. I agree with Jesse on the 705. It has better balance top to bottom. They are the more musical speaker.

F1nut

Yes to the LSiM's being better than the LSi's. I'm not familiar with your amp, so no comment.

The 705 is a better balanced speaker.

txcoastal1

Let's chat, I am very familiar with the LSiM line, and I own the LSi25's for my HT. By my signature you can also tell I like my speakers for music.

How big is your room and distance you sit from your speakers listening to music?
Music material/genre, bass heavy?

The reason I ask, is because if your room is not large enough for the 707's, I would suggest the 705's.

If you enjoy bass heavy music like hip/hop or rap etc. The LSiM's will not necessarily curb the bass response you are used too. Musically I prefer the LSiM's.

Your MA5200 would run the 705's but would be under powered for the 707's to reach full potential.

Gatecrasher

I'd love to hear the 707s. They are beautiful-looking. I don't know enough about them to comment on the power requirements though. Just from my own experience, I've always found that most claims that Polk speakers need lots of power to sound good are greatly exaggerated. I guess it depends on what your definition of "power" is.

txcoastal1

Generally speaking when you have enough power/current, speakers will sound good at lower volumes

mpitogo

Room is 15L x 25W. Speakers are 8' apart in the middle of the long wall with a slight toe in (need to measure with a protractor). Listening position is 2.5' from the back wall 8' from the speakers in a triangle. Music is all kinds, funk, jazz, classical, alternative, rock, some rap, lots of electronic e.g. daft punk.

+2 on the upgrade
+2 on the power
+2 to go with 705

nooshinjohn

The 705's would be my call.

txcoastal1

mpitogo wrote: »

Room is 15L x 25W. Speakers are 8' apart in the middle of the long wall. Listening position is 2.5' from the back wall. Music is all kinds, funk, jazz, classical, alternative, rock, some rap, lots of electronic e.g. daft punk.

I think you are going to feel like you are lacking. That said 100watts from your MA5200 for the 707's, would require an upgrade for full potential.

705's would lack bass response compared to your LSi25's.

If I were going to redo your setup
I'd go 705's with a sub like a pair of SVS SB2000's or a 1-PB12 plus

Just my HO of course

DarqueKnight

Gatecrasher wrote: »

I've always found that most claims that Polk speakers need lots of power to sound good are greatly exaggerated. I guess it depends on what your definition of "power" is.

It depends on what your definition of "sound good" is.

mpitogo

Thanks. LSi25 has decent bass without a sub.

If I where to bi-amp the 707 keep the ma5200 for tweeter/mid and add an mc152 for the bass drivers the combo could work.

txcoastal1

Problem would be not controlling the volume to each section, one may over power the other.

Your talking a horizontal BiAmp which in most cases requires 2 of the same amps.

Maybe talk to McIntosh to see if the power to signal ration in a horizontal biamp config would work with what you are suggesting

mpitogo

And I just found this...http://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/161994/lsi25-vs-lsim705-anyone-heard-them-both

txcoastal1

I was a Polk dealer, Russman rep'ed the Polks


LSAF 2011...the debut of the LSiM 707's hmmm...see my comments....room size

http://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/119619/polk-lsim-707-at-lone-star-audio-fest-2011/p2


LSAF 2012...the debut of the LSiM 705's great sound, even ran them on a 12watt integrated

http://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/128877/lsaf-lone-star-audio-fest-2012-may-4-6

tonyb

mpitogo wrote: »

Thanks. LSi25 has decent bass without a sub.

If I where to bi-amp the 707 keep the ma5200 for tweeter/mid and add an mc152 for the bass drivers the combo could work.

Doing that wastes the power of the amp on the top portion. Most speakers top portion doesn't use a lot of power to begin with. I'd be surprised if it took up more than 30 watts. In that configuration, the rest of the power of that amp isn't available to the speaker and thus wasted.

Get yourself a dedicated subwoofer of good quality rather than trying to passive bi-amp. Or one amp with more muscle if your allergic to subwoofers.

tratliff

mpitogo

The MC152 has been getting great reviews. It is said that the power output is significantly better than the rated specs.

If your main objective is the bigger LSiM 707 you might try a MC152 alone without BiAmping. Using the MA5200 as just the preamp. If that does not cut it then a MC302 would sure provide the current needed. Any McIntosh dealer worth a squat would allow you to try out both to determine which one works best.


Good luck with what ever you decide.

txcoastal1

Yes to above, didn't read the specs on the on the 152

152 would power the 707's, no reason for biamping.

tratliff

And if you are happy with one of those amps you might just find yourself looking for a dedicated McIntosh preamp to mate with it and selling the integrated.

We are happy to help you spend your money. Just ask...

msg

With the 705 recommendation from the initial posts for better balance, I think Ron and Todd are nailing it on the reasoning, comparison, and expectations.

I like the idea of 705's plus two subs. You get the best of both worlds here without any perceived bloat you might be "locked into" were you to go with 707s. Engage the subs when you want fatter lows, disengage for more balanced, more refined 2ch experience when exaggerated lows aren't intended to be part of the experience.

I like bass and electronic music, too, like downtempo and chill stuff. For impactful presentation, I engage a HSU VTF15. 705s and even 703s can do pretty well on their own in these genres, but for listening sessions in this genre and similar, the sub really makes the experience.

I haven't heard any McIntosh stuff before and no sense of capability, but Todd has great experience there. I wouldn't poo-poo the power specs in such a McIntosh piece as yours, and plus one, yes, maybe think on the 705s with the consideration that an amp upgrade may be desirable. I have limited experience with LSI series speakers - small bookshelf LSi7 only, but that experience was that the LSi are more laid back, almost veiled, blanketed even, to me in comparison to LSiM. They also required more volume to get them sounding best; didn't like them as much as LSiM at lower listening levels. You may find the LSiM a bit too crisp at first moving from LSi, but would probably settle into them quickly and find them superior.

LSiM are purported to be easier to drive than LSi, but would still do best with high current amplification. Not sure how this relates to your specific situation though, since your bottom ends are powered, but for balance and detail, I prefer LSiM over LSi, granted, in my limited experience.

mpitogo

Thanks for all the great suggestions. I'm new to the forum and was not sure what to expect. At another forum all I heard where crickets...

I am leaning towards a pure 2.0 configuration and thus the LSiM 707. The LSi25 where definitely an upgrade from RT55/PSW450 with a Denon AVR. The only other full range towers I have are in the HT 7.2.2 with Martin Logan Motion 40 LR paired with dual DSW microPRO 3000 and calibrated with Audyssey XT 32 on a Marantz receiver. The ML are a tad bright but good for movies at -10db.

I'm going to try out the 707 with the MA5200. This integrated doesn't have an autoformer and does not have published specs for 4 and 2 ohm loads but there have been reviews measuring it much higher at 2 and 4 ohms. The 100wpc into 8ohms is a conservative rating and should still be ok for my normal mid-level listening volume. No calibration or equalization just pure unfiltered signal path. Should the unit not have enough power, I would upgrade to the MA7900 200wpc.

I've been a long time fan of Polk Audio so it's nice to see they have a good following.

Emlyn

I would stick with the MA5200 for a while and see what you think when using it with LSiMs. As you have observed through ownership, it is not a low current amp even though its rating is 100 watts per channel. Although I have used 707s with higher powered amps, the Parasound A23 I use now has absolutely no problem with the speakers.

I would also observe that the issue with the 707s is not bass bloat if they are properly set up but that there is a slightly noticeable "gap" between the low frequency drivers and the mid/tweeter section that sounds sort of like a bookshelf/subwoofer system. That slight issue is much less than it is on the older LSi tower speakers. Although I have not owned the 705s, from what I gather those speakers do not have the same issue which is why they are favored for two channel listening over the 707s. If using the 707s with a subwoofer, the issue is no longer evident.

mpitogo

Just a tad off on setup. Measured actual setup, LSi25's are 9.5' apart toed in 3deg and 11' from listening position, 9' from left wall and 7.5' from the right wall. Listening position is about 33" forward from the back wall.

Joey_V

I would avoid biamping different Amps unless you have an active crossover.

mpitogo

@Joey_V don't each have a respective high pass/low pass filter and wouldn't an active crossover be doubling it? Unless the crossovers are defeated when I remove the bonding wire?

Order placed. Will try 707 with the MA5200.

As another option since the LSiM are 8ohm speakers and easier to drive in theory it should work well with a Denon AVR4802R 125wpc in bi-amp using L/R and reassigned surround-back L/R with the MA5200 serving as the pre-amp. The Denon is sitting in a box and was my old HT receiver. The Denon was not too fond of the LSi25.

mikeyb128

mpitogo wrote: »

Just a tad off on setup. Measured actual setup, LSi25's are 9.5' apart toed in 3deg and 11' from listening position, 9' from left wall and 7.5' from the right wall. Listening position is about 33" forward from the back wall.

I think you made the right decision. You have a very large room, which is similar in size as mine. When I had 705's in my theater system, the 705 struggled with the large room. They were driven by a 400watt per channel sunfire beast of an amp. When I had the 705's in my 2 channel room which is half the size, they were very, very sweet. They had no troubles filling that room with really great sound.

Emlyn

mpitogo wrote: »

As another option since the LSiM are 8ohm speakers and easier to drive in theory it should work well with a Denon AVR4802R 125wpc in bi-amp using L/R and reassigned surround-back L/R with the MA5200 serving as the pre-amp. The Denon is sitting in a box and was my old HT receiver. The Denon was not too fond of the LSi25.

Not a good idea. The MA5200 is a much better amp than the amp section in the 4802 receiver. There is a reason it couldn't handle 4 ohm speakers by itself. Receivers also have inherent electronic noise because there is so much processing going on inside the box and lack the quiet black background of a product built for two channel use.

tonyb

Emlyn wrote: »

mpitogo wrote: »

As another option since the LSiM are 8ohm speakers and easier to drive in theory it should work well with a Denon AVR4802R 125wpc in bi-amp using L/R and reassigned surround-back L/R with the MA5200 serving as the pre-amp. The Denon is sitting in a box and was my old HT receiver. The Denon was not too fond of the LSi25.

Not a good idea. The MA5200 is a much better amp than the amp section in the 4802 receiver. There is a reason it couldn't handle 4 ohm speakers by itself. Receivers also have inherent electronic noise because there is so much processing going on inside the box and lack the quiet black background of a product built for two channel use.

Agreed ^^^

You really just need to try out the MA5200 first before making judgements.

[Deleted User]

OTOH, experimenting is fun!