Sda Srs 2 placement question

analogluvr

Hi guys,
I just got a new pair of SDA speakers and I am curious about placement. In my listening room I usually have my speakers a third of the way in from the front wall and my listening chair two thirds of the way in. Will this work? Everything I read says to have them only about 6 inches to a foot off the wall.

F1nut

Everything I read says to have them only about 6 inches to a foot off the wall.

Yep.

analogluvr

Will be work about 6 feet away from the wall? I presume I would just get a little bit less bass. But will they still do there Soundstage and tricks?

F1nut

Follow the standard set up. 5 to 6 inches from the back wall, no toe in, at least 3 feet from any side wall and 6 to 8 feet apart.

Nothing else will work properly and at 6 feet from the back wall you will not have any bass.

analogluvr

Not to be argumentative but what if I use a sub to augment the base? Will they still sound stage like they're supposed to? Usually in my experience it's better to pull a speaker out further as you get greater depth in your stage.

F1nut

You are, of course, free to set them up anyway you like, but these are unlike any speakers you are used to, so the set up is completely different as well as being tried and true.

Schurkey

For the record, in my listening space the front wall that the left speaker "should" be against...is the escape window, which I refuse to block.

My SDA 1Bs are several feet out from the front wall. Lack of bass is not a particular issue in that room. I don't have a subwoofer. I might like one, have entertained the idea of getting one--but have not dropped the money. I don't feel particularly bass-deprived. The floor, left and front walls are concrete, Styrofoam insulation on the walls covered in paneling. Indoor/outdoor carpet with no pad on the floor. (Right and rear walls are 2x4 stud with interior fiberglass insulation, covered with paneling, ceiling is wood joists with 'glass insulation and acoustic tile.)

I do have a couch shaker, but that's not helpful for music. Works ok for movies, though.

The soundstage goes well "outside" the triangle of two speakers and a listening position. NO worries there.

analogluvr

That sounds promising schurkey. I understand what you're saying F1nut and thank you for your response. I will probably experiment once I get the crossovers rebuilt.

Conradicles

I have had several pairs of SDA and I agree with F1nut. They do best when set up like the user manual suggests. Enjoy those classic speakers.

Schurkey

Tradeoffs and compromises in everything.

Set against the front wall, the bass will be "bigger" on most speakers. It's well-proven "room reinforcement". Some speakers are engineered to take advantage of it, some speakers are not.

The best example of speakers intended for "room" reinforcement I can think of are the long-obsolete but well-regarded Ken Kantor design, NHT 3.3. Those guys were engineered to reinforce the bass with the front wall, but also the monolith of each speaker cabinet (along with the side-firing bass driver) created an artificial "side wall" as well, with bass response dramatically increased due to pseudo- "corner" loading. The angled front face of the cabinet box meant that the tweeters were toed-in when the cabinets were parallel with each other, and 90 degrees to the front wall. An exceptionally clever design. I wish I had a pair, and that the pair still had usable foam driver surrounds and diffraction pads--a common problem with them as they aged. God bless Polk's rubber surrounds rather than foam.

There was a time I owned corner-horn speakers; homebuilt monstrosities that used far more lumber than genuinely required because unlike Klipschhorns, these didn't rely on the room corners, they included enough horn length on their own. The principle was the same, whether Klipsch-designed or not--stuff the speakers into a corner (or build the corner into the speaker cabinet) and you get additional bass.

By comparison, dipole or panel speakers (Magnepan, for example) suffer terribly when crammed against the front wall.

Pulled out into the room, with the seating position similarly pulled away from the rear wall, like my 1Bs in my basement, speakers achieve more of a "nearfield" response. Overall bass can be reduced, but midrange and treble clarity may improve due to the increased loudness of the primary waveform, along with the timing of the reflected waveforms from sidewalls, floor and ceiling.

The FIRST and MOST IMPORTANT "trick" to achieving decent bass is DON'T PUT THE SEATING POSITION IN A NULL area. If you're sitting in a null, there is little you can do to get proper bass. By comparison, room reinforcement would be a secondary method to improving bass.

What I'm saying is that the room and by extension, room acoustic treatment(s) are more important than any typical speaker placement. You can reduce peaks, but you can't add volume to nulls.

If you need the speakers to be away from the front wall, TRY IT. It may not be optimum, but it can still be very rewarding musically.

analogluvr

Thanks that's along the lines of what I was hoping for. As long as it's not a Bose type situation or a panel type situation where it absolutely won't work I think I can make it work.

F1nut

My SDA's are 6 inches from the rear wall. At 5 inches the bass gets muddy, at 7 inches they lose a lot of the bass.

machone

My 2.3TL's are 7" off the wall and 6'-9" apart with around 4ft on either side. I recently moved them from 8 to 7.5 to 7" off the wall while adjusting the width and I think I am very close. I am adding acoustic panels and I think I can move them a little closer to the wall to reinforce the bass even more without getting muddy. The sound stage and imaging they create is better than I ever expected. It is wall to wall, deep and tall.
They sound awesome!

codycatalist

F1nut wrote: »

My SDA's are 6 inches from the rear wall. At 5 inches the bass gets muddy, at 7 inches they lose a lot of the bass.

This. I had issues with placement when I first got my 2Bs, I listened to Jesse here and once I followed the directions I had quite a jump in performance for the positive. Rooms are all different but start at 6 inches if you can and adjust from there to your liking.

analogluvr

So I got my crossovers entirely rebuilt and started using the speakers.I have them about 10 feet out from the front wall and if anything they almost have too much bass. So in my limited experience you can place them just like you would other speakers. Now I was going to look at replacing the tweeters. My speakers have two per side so should I just do one of them? If so which one the top or the bottom? The reason why ask is to keep the cost down. Also what is The part number or model number of the best Tweeter that I can use? Will I be able to sell my SL 2000's afterwords and if so roughly how much are they worth?
Thanks again for all the help.

heiney9

Replace them all, RD0-194 when you call to order tell them you are a Forum member and you will get a discount.

Old, working SL2000's can be sold for $20-25 a piece maybe more on Ebay if you want to go that route.

They make a HUGE improvement. You've already invested in the updated x-over, don't cheap out.

Also, you can say what you want, 10 feet away from the wall isn't optimal.

H9

tonyb

analogluvr wrote: »

Not to be argumentative but what if I use a sub to augment the base? Will they still sound stage like they're supposed to? Usually in my experience it's better to pull a speaker out further as you get greater depth in your stage.

Your correct, for a normal box speaker. However the SDA's are not normal, follow the advice given and you should be a happy camper.....and get the RDO's.

analogluvr

Thanks so much for the direction, I am ordering the RDO's. Regarding placement if anything I feel they are too bass heavy and boomy. If I were to have them 6" from the wall would that not be worse? Isn't that the only advantage to placing closer to a wall? Granted the crossovers are not broken in so that may tighten things up.
Unfortunately given my room going closer is not an option at this point but I may try it in the future.

[Deleted User]

The tweeter replacement , to me, is by far the biggest improvement you can make.

analogluvr

OK I just got off the phone with the distributor in Canada, because I'm in Canada. Apparently he's about a 10 minute drive from me so I am going to pick them up now. He only has two in stock and is ordering in the other two. Given that I'm starting with Only two which two would you replace? Top pair or bottom pair?

analogluvr

OK I just left and they actually did have four of them in stock so I will replace them all at once. Great people to deal with very quick and painless. Just for other fellow Canadians reference the number is 1-888-689-4429 and the company is Morgan technologies. They are located in Mississauga Once I get some listening in I will leave some further impressions. Again thanks for everyone's help so far, much appreciated!

F1nut

If you've got too much bass/boomy bass with those speakers 10 feet out into room you've got room issues, IMO.

stones89

I fought room placement recommedations also and after much moving around I have found that no doubt closer to the front wall and closer together sounds best by far.

It goes against everything I have learned over the years, right now I have Thiels in while waiting on some parts for my 2.3tl and they are 10 feet apart and 5.5 feet from the front wall. The Polks in my room work best 6 to 8 inches out and just over 6 feet apart edge to edge.

analogluvr

Well I will definitely try it like that when I can. I installed the new tweeters today and found one of the old ones was wired out of phase. Then when I went to try them out I found my SD a drivers were not working. I cut out the crappy plugs and soldered some wires across. Now they're working but they are very low in volume. I can't remember if that's the way they were before or if they are quieter now. They also sound quite muffled. Is this normal? So if I desire I can use a one to one transformer and then use any mono blocks that I wish?
Thanks again for the help guys, it seems there are a few core members that are always very quick to answer any questions and it's hugely appreciated.

F1nut

The SDA drivers play at about half the volume level of the stereo drivers.

heiney9

There is a specific transformer to use to construct a DIY AI-1 cable so you can use mono and non-common ground stereo amplifiers.

Do a search for Dreadnaught or Dreadnought and/or Avel Lindberg 800vA. If you have any difficulty finding some info, I'll try post the links.

H9

analogluvr

No need to post the link I did browse that thread already.

try1256

I don't think you can use the transformer on the SRS 2 unless it is the pin blade version.

analogluvr

I thought I read that somewhere as well but am looking for further clarification. I don't really understand why that would be?

analogluvr

Ecause mine is the blade blade.

F1nut

You cannot use the AI-1/Dreadnought with blade/blade SDA speakers because they are wired differently.