FM antenna

machone

I have a Yamaha TX-540 Tuner that deserves a better signal.

Right now I have the two wire flexible antenna thing hooked up.

What is the latest and greatest you guys have tried? I don't mind running a cable up to the attic if that is best.

zeppage2

http://www.fmtunerinfo.com/antennas.html#indoor

F1nut

machone wrote: »

I have a Yamaha TX-540 Tuner that deserves a better signal.

Right now I have the two wire flexible antenna thing hooked up.

What is the latest and greatest you guys have tried? I don't mind running a cable up to the attic if that is best.

Easy answer, Magnum Dynalab, which I noted wasn't even tested in that link, yet they poo-pooed it. Anyway, it's amazing.

pitdogg2

It is easy to overdrive the front end in some tuners so be aware of that. Winegard was making a decent antenna. I do not know if they still are making it. Outside is always best especially if you have aluminum siding. I'd look at winegard and channel master to see if they still offer any. Pretty good for not a ton of coin.

Take a look at this site I've bought from them good folks. It will at least give you some good ideas as to what is available.


http://www.warrenelectronics.com/

bikezappa

Try rabbit ears in the room or better in the attic. low cost option

mhardy6647

Is the OP looking for an indoor or an outdoor antenna?

Recall that in the US, the FM band is a "VHF" band of frequencies -- approx. 88 to 108 MHz, which is located in between the old analog TV channels 6 and 7 in the allocated frequency spectrum. In other words, FM signals behave like TV signals -- essentially line-of-sight, and sensitive to "ghost" signals due to reflection off of objects (mountains, buildings). In FM, this phenomenon is known as multipath.

The problem with the whole "antenna" thing is this -- the best solution is neither easy nor inexpensive. A highly directional outdoor "beam" antenna (e.g., a yagi-type design) mounted as high as possible and equipped with a rotator, using good-quality coaxial downlead will be "best".

The best thing about a yagi is that it can be adjusted to at least minimize (and, often, eliminate) multipath distortion. Multipath does more harm to a good FM signal than pretty much anything else.



Unfortunately, there aren't really any really good commercial FM yagis on the market any more. There are some interesting DIY FM directional and omnidirectional designs, but I don't have any experience with them myself.

Also, an outdoor antenna requires, of course, a wind-resistant mount and proper grounding to protect against lightning strikes. All in all a pretty serious undertaking. I do have a cheap-ish FM yagi and a decent rotator to put up... but haven't gotten up the gumption to do it.

I am not a huge fan of amplified antennae (indoor or outdoor) because all amplifiers amplify both the signal and the noise (plus add at least a teeny bit of noise of their own).

In terms of indoor antennae, the unfortunate answer is -- there aren't any good ones

There are less bad ones.

The good old "T" shaped 300 ohm twinlead FM dipole (those 1 dollar antennae that came with analog tuners, and that Radio Shack would sell you for 3 dollars) are pretty good if: mounted as high as possible and properly oriented. The best reception will be of stations that are aligned with either "face" of the "T" -- the "ends" of the "T" are essentially nodes, with very little reception.

I use one of these - but mostly because I got it cheap and it looks kind of cool.

DSC_9169 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

mhardy6647

It's also probably worth mentioning that there are omnidirectional outdoor FM antennae; the most common type, historically, is the "turnstile" antenna; it's just a pair of center-fed dipoles (not all that different than the indoor "T" antenna), or a single, twisted dipole, that mounts on a mast. They're cheap and OK (no rotator required -- but no ability to tune out multipath).




Magnum-Dynalab, last I knew, sells a couple of different antennae; not sure which one was referred to earlier. Their ST-2 is an end-fed, whip-type omnidirectional antenna with "a little bit of gain" (2.5 dB). It is (relatively) small and can be used indoors or out. Not inexpensive but pretty popular.

They also make an indoor antenna (SR-100) that looks to be a center-fed dipole variant. I know nothing about it; it seems a little expensive for what it is but it is cheap in absolute terms.

C Crane also sells a super-duper variant of the T-shaped center-fed half-wave dipole. It seems, to my Yankee sensibilities, to be outrageously expensive, but there are numerous reports of very happy users on the hifi forums.

http://www.ccrane.com/FM-Antennas/FM-Reflect-Dipole-Antenna



Note that the "downlead" on this antenna is 75 ohm coax rather than 300 ohm twinlead -- this is handy if one's tuner has only a 75 ohm antenna connector.

lightman1

Too many words, Doc.

mhardy6647

I knew that was comin'...



It's not an easy question to answer.
It's sort of like sayin' "I need some speaker cables, which ones are best?"

... plus, I even forgot one point:

An attic-mounted antenna is almost as good as an outdoor antenna (except for folks, like us, with metal roofs)!

PS -- I would love to have one of those Yamaha TX-540 tuners (although that probably goes without saying)!

tonyp063

No Russ, not enough words (I'm an antenna geek)

Mark didn't even bring up my favorite option.
A J-pole

Oh and.
Mark. -6 to -12dB, depending on the attic.
Assuming no metal above or on the sides.

honestaquarian

I'm still using my Radio Shack Archer FM Stereo Supreme antennae that I bought thirty years ago and pulling in HDRadio with them!

mhardy6647

If you noticed, I carefully sorta glossed over the J-pole by mentioning "DIY" with suitably vauge ambiguity

I'd like to try one some time but haven't gotten up the gumption to build one.

There are some other DIY opportunities for FM, too -- there're rhombic designs that' aren't outrageously large or complicated.

The other thing I glossed over is my usual default recommendation; almost as laconic as F1nut's MD endorsement

DIY a center-fed, folded, half-wave 300 ohm (twinlead) "T" dipole, and tune it to about 90 MHz. Use it to listen to the "public service" stations (nonprofit, college, NPR, etc.) from 87.9 to 92 (ish) MHz. Those usually sound the best & have the best programming, anyway

This one's tuned to 90.7 MHz; i.e., for optimal reception of one station's frequency

source: http://www.antiqueradios.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=186963

mhardy6647

For the record, the wavelength of an FM signal at 90 MHz is about 3.33 meters or 131.2 inches. A half-wavelength at 90 MHz is... umm... half of that.


source: https://xkcd.com/54/

also: Note that every one of my posts contains at least one picture.
Not that I am defensive or anything...

lightman1

91.7 WSGE from Gaston College in Gastonia, NC. Cleanest FM transmitter this side of AM.
So I'm guessing their wavelenght is aboot 2.9m, eh?

mhardy6647

heh -- I used a web-based calculator
The speed of light though, is 3 x 10^8 (edit: oops, only off by a factor of 10 when I first posted!) m/sec to a good approximation, so...
[scribble, scribble]

I get 3.27 m

http://www.csgnetwork.com/freqwavelengthcalc.html

PS I musta listened to that, at least a little bit, visiting my father during his "golden years", living down in Shelby, NC. Just a hoot 'n' a holler from Gastonia as the FM signal flies.

pitdogg2

lightman1 wrote: »

91.7 WSGE from Gaston College in Gastonia, NC. Cleanest FM transmitter this side of AM.
So I'm guessing their wavelenght is aboot 2.9m, eh?

Broke out the calculator didn't ya

lightman1

WNCW 88.7 Spindale, NC. They bounce signal off the hill behind them and cover all the way east to Charlotte.
On cloudy days reach a few miles farther east.


And I dinna know ye had roots in NC, Doc!
Good on ye!

treitz3

Hello all......playing Devil's advocate here.....

With all of the advances of technology today, can one not just log online to their favorite radio station, regardless of where it is in the world? I used to yearn to pull in 92.3 out of Greensboro NC. Clouds, storms and all sorts of conditions thwarted this effort, no matter how good the antenna.

Now I just log online to the station and I don't have to spend a dime, nor do I have to worry about signal issues. It comes in crystal clear with zero issues.

Tom

lightman1

Pissoff Tom... harken back to those days if hoping a cloudy day would bring in an FM station you wanted to hear. To maybe hear a song that others wouldn't play. To hear a favourite DJ goofin on the genre they didn't like. Adding just enough split speaker wire to the 300 Ohm terminals to find a signal.
Realising that AM was more than just a bunch of talk and classical music.......

lightman1

........and the words of the Prophets were written on the studio walls........

mhardy6647

lightman1 wrote: »

WNCW 88.7 Spindale, NC. They bounce signal off the hill behind them and cover all the way east to Charlotte.
On cloudy days reach a few miles farther east.


And I dinna know ye had roots in NC, Doc!
Good on ye!

Two of my father's sisters married NC fellers after WWII and moved to Greensboro. My one aunt spent her whole life there; my other aunt moved to Shelby in the 80s (to be close to her oldest daughter) and my father spent the last few years of his life in that little town, too. Birthplace of Earl Scruggs

My one aunt is still around, still in Shelby, and in surprisingly good shape, last I heard, at 95.

treitz3

Shut up Russ.

Tom

F1nut

Shelby, eh? Had some of the best BBQ I've ever had there and not far away, the absolute worst dive whoretell I've ever stayed in.

gudnoyez

http://godarusa.com/id67.html

I got one of these at the hunting cabin, I can't get cell phone reception out there but this pulls in FM stations pretty darn good. They sell these on Amazon and Audio Advisor, and there are a few to be had on E-Bay.

mhardy6647

F1nut wrote: »

Shelby, eh? Had some of the best BBQ I've ever had there and not far away, the absolute worst dive whoretell I've ever stayed in.

My father loved NC style pork barbecue. Mrs. H & I do, as well.
And hushpuppies. Oh, lord, yes, hushpuppies.

I am blanking on the name of the big-time Shelby's BBQ place [edit: I looked it up, it's Alston Bridges]. In Greensboro, it's Stamey's.

I do think the best we ever had was at a hole-in-the-wall place somewhere in the Yadkin Valley. I forget where exactly -- but it had been written up in the NYT... and it really was dandy.

We always stayed at a Hampton Inn there when we went down -- I like Hampton Inns, the're the Pringles Potato Chips of hotels. All the same.

lightman1

F1nut wrote: »

Shelby, eh? Had some of the best BBQ I've ever had there and not far away, the absolute worst dive whoretell I've ever stayed in.

Take the good with the bad, Jesse.

lightman1

https://youtu.be/aNuqKB6H3Iw

lightman1

He makes five strings sing in harmony.

txcoastal1

F1nut wrote: »

Shelby, eh? Had some of the best BBQ I've ever had there and not far away, the absolute worst dive whoretell I've ever stayed in.

Let me guess....PORK

mhardy6647

I'm a fan.

lightman1

txcoastal1 wrote: »

F1nut wrote: »

Shelby, eh? Had some of the best BBQ I've ever had there and not far away, the absolute worst dive whoretell I've ever stayed in.

Let me guess....PORK

The only kind of BBQ......


And to our esteemed resident biologist.....
Bridges BBQ....either one, Reds or Alstons in Shelby. Just depends if you want 'mater based western NC or mild vinegar/pepper base on the last hour of smoking the shoulder.


And they have good radidio stachuns there.